Ballon d'Or 2023 | Messi wins for 8th time

[Ish]

Some fantastic fan fiction going on in here.

 

[Zehner]

Just like everybody else's, a subjective combination of individual performances and competitions won / impact on those competitions

And I guess the subjective weighting of individualnperformances vs competitions won varies from season to season?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

According to my opinion it should have been:

2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland

You have to caveat Ronaldo's win in 2014 by saying nobody stood out in a balanced Germany team as the reason Ronaldo won in a World Cup year (which is a reasonable opinion to hold on 2014), but you have the best World Cup performance in that timeframe as Messi in 2022 and it shouldn't be rewarded? Messi in the 2022 WC stood out and then some.

 

[Camara]

And I guess the subjective weighting of individualnperformances vs competitions won varies from season to season?

Yes, just like the official award does.

 

[MrEleson]

And I guess the subjective weighting of individualnperformances vs competitions won varies from season to season?

That’s exactly how the official award does it too.

 

[Camara]

You have to caveat Ronaldo's win in 2014 by saying nobody stood out in a balanced Germany team as the reason Ronaldo won in a World Cup year (which is a reasonable opinion to hold on 2014), but you have the best World Cup performance in that timeframe as Messi in 2022 and it shouldn't be rewarded? Messi in the 2022 WC stood out and then some.

Ronaldo in 2014 won the CL and Germany won the WC. No one overlapped there, some Bayern players won WC and league but Bayern winning the league it not exactly a groundbreaking achievement imo.
Messi in 2022 won the WC, Haaland won the treble (with CL). There is a difference between the years.

It is subjective, the official one is, your idea is, mine is.

The same people that say that goals mean nothing are sometimes the first ones to say Messi should have won in 2012 because he scored a lot of goals (he only won Copa del Rey). So goals matter or they don't? Messi scored 91 goals in 2012 and Ronaldo for example 63, but those Ronaldo goals were decisive for the La Liga win (with record points and goals at that time) and reaching the semis of Euro 2012.
The difference between Messi and Ronaldo is roughly the 20 extra league goals Messi scored and the 6 extra international frendlies Messi scored. So most of Messi's goals were in dead rubber league games that didn't matter (the 11/12 part) and international friendlies.
I'm fine with giving Messi the award in 2012 for breaking the record but then you have to be aware of your own criteria, you can't say one year is very important and the other year it's irrelevant.
What are your arguments for those years? Who should have won and why?

 

[Rojow]

The irony given the Barcelona alegations



According to my opinion it should have been:

2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland

Hahaha. This guy thinks Ronaldo is better player than Messi.

 

[Ish]

Shame. Must be really difficult for some.

 

[Pronewbie]

Inevitable. The GOAT without any hyperbole.

 

[Zehner]

Yes, just like the official award does.

That’s exactly how the official award does it too.

Yeah, it is shit. But instead of opting for consistency in the weighting of criteria, you guys demand another kind of inconsistency that coincidently works in favor of you know who.

Imagine being a passionate football fan lucky enough to witness one of the best players ever over almost two decades and instead of enjoying the show you decide to begrudge him because of a boy crush on another footballer.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Ronaldo in 2014 won the CL and Germany won the WC. No one overlapped there, some Bayern players won WC and league but Bayern winning the league it not exactly a groundbreaking achievement imo.
Messi in 2022 won the WC, Haaland won the treble (with CL). There is a difference between the years.

It is subjective, the official one is, your idea is, mine is.

The same people that say that goals mean nothing are sometimes the first ones to say Messi should have won in 2012 because he scored a lot of goals (he only won Copa del Rey). So goals matter or they don't? Messi scored 91 goals in 2012 and Ronaldo for example 63, but those Ronaldo goals were decisive for the La Liga win (with record points and goals at that time) and reaching the semis of Euro 2012.
The difference between Messi and Ronaldo is roughly the 20 extra league goals Messi scored and the 6 extra international frendlies Messi scored. So most of Messi's goals were in dead rubber league games that didn't matter (the 11/12 part) and international friendlies.
I'm fine with giving Messi the award in 2012 for breaking the record but then you have to be aware of your own criteria, you can't say one year is very important and the other year it's irrelevant.
What are your arguments for those years? Who should have won and why?

What years are you talking about?

 

[FriedClams]

Now the only player In history to win the ballon d’or whilst playing in two different continents

 

[Camara]

What years are you talking about?

The ones I mentioned earlier, 2008 to 2023.

 

[Swoobs]

He was the story of the World Cup.

So who should be in the conversation? Who is the best player domestically and internationally?

Still waiting for your opinion. Who should have won it since to you messi is not in the conversation and you were not talking about haaland either.

Who has impressed you so much both internationally and domestically, that he should finish in front of both messi and haaland.

Guess it is hard to answer when there isn’t an answer

 

[Camara]

Yeah, it is shit. But instead of opting for consistency in the weighting of criteria, you guys demand another kind of inconsistency that coincidently works in favor of you know who.

Imagine being a passionate football fan lucky enough to witness one of the best players ever over almost two decades and instead of enjoying the show you decide to begrudge him because of a boy crush on another footballer.

As subjective as it is, it is also your subjective interpretation that you think mine is more inconsistent than what several different players through 15 years years voted for.

And can you please stop the strawman argument x9000 times that if I don't think Messi deserved to win all the years he did then I dislike him and I'm trying to distort things - newsflash, I am subjective like everyone else, including you.
I never said he is a bad player, I mentioned several times he is one of the best players of all time and that I consider him equal to Ronaldo as they have their own strengths and weaknesses. Yes, for some that is an heresy because of eye tests, pre-assists and keepers defending penalties or something, I don't know.
But for the cult that is too much, I cannot say Messi is good while also saying good of Ronaldo, Haaland, or whoever is in Messi's path.
Whatever strawman arguments you want, I'll just stop posting in this thread, I brought a list and you just laugh at it without even refuting it, so keep in your subjective higher horse.

 

[FriedClams]

Still waiting for your opinion. Who should have won it since to you messi is not in the conversation and you were not talking about haaland either.

Who has impressed you so much both internationally and domestically, that he should finish in front of both messi and haaland.

Guess it is hard to answer when there isn’t an answer

Julian Alvarez deserves it more than Haaland, player consistently well, and had the best 6 months of any player in history in terms of trophies won.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The ones I mentioned earlier, 2008 to 2023.

The one Messi didn't deserve the most was 2021, I think Lewandowski deserved that one. Between 2009 and 2012 he was the best footballer in the world, it was one of the highest peaks ever, culminating in that 2012 season where he scored 91 goals, it was such a historic season in achievement that he still deserved the trophy without a clearly better candidate.

Do you really think Messi was wrongly given the majority of his Ballon d'Ors? Because that's what you're claiming.

 

[Zehner]

As subjective as it is, it is also your subjective interpretation that you think mine is more inconsistent than what several different players through 15 years years voted for.

And can you please stop the strawman argument x9000 times that if I don't think Messi deserved to win all the years he did then I dislike him and I'm trying to distort things - newsflash, I am subjective like everyone else, including you.
I never said he is a bad player, I mentioned several times he is one of the best players of all time and that I consider him equal to Ronaldo as they have their own strengths and weaknesses. Yes, for some that is an heresy because of eye tests, pre-assists and keepers defending penalties or something, I don't know.
But for the cult that is too much, I cannot say Messi is good while also saying good of Ronaldo, Haaland, or whoever is in Messi's path.
Whatever strawman arguments you want, I'll just stop posting in this thread, I brought a list and you just laugh at it without even refuting it, so keep in your subjective higher horse.

Your opinion is so far off that it can only be explained with antipathy. And I think if you're being completely honest to yourself you know that. You may think that of me as well and I can't prove to you that you're wrong but I know that I can cheer when a player produces magic even if it is a perceived 'rival' of one of my favorites. But going by the things you post, I don't think you can. Instead you bedrudgingly acknowledge what you deem undeniable but don't give away an inch more than that. What you don't see is that some of your takes already crossed the line to absurdity.

 

[FriedClams]

Your opinion is so far off that it can only be explained with antipathy. And I think if you're being completely honest to yourself you know that. You may think that of me as well and I can't prove to you that you're wrong but I know that I can cheer when a player produces magic even if it is a perceived 'rival' of one of my favorites. But going by the things you post, I don't think you can. Instead you bedrudgingly acknowledge what you deem undeniable but don't give away an inch more than that. What you don't see is that some of your takes already crossed the line to absurdity.

try and convince a Serbian person that Federer is better than djokovic.

 

[wr8_utd]

Julian Alvarez deserves it more than Haaland, player consistently well, and had the best 6 months of any player in history in terms of trophies won.

Maybe if he wasn't a bench player for half of last season, he'd definitely be finishing above Haaland.

 

[RedRocket9908]

I would say KDB was the best player for Manchester City with Rodri being a close second as agreed by most in football forums. In the finals, Haaland was the usual suspect, easily the worst performer.

I would say if Kane deal happened, Kane would easily surpass Haaland with that City set-up.

Exactly, Haaland scored so many goals because of the world class players aroubd him providing assist after assist, put him in Man Utd's current side and he would struggle to score 10.

Claiming Haaland should have won it is one of the most laughable things ever.

 

[VanKenny]

The irony given the Barcelona alegations



According to my opinion it should have been:

2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland

Whenever someone argues that Sneijder should have won it in 2010, thats when i know theres no point arguing anymore with them. Thats one of the worst ever football takes that are for some reason often heard or read. Thats as bad as when someone says that prime Ronaldinho was better than Messi.

You just know those people are a bit confused, or dont really watch football.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

You have to caveat Ronaldo's win in 2014 by saying nobody stood out in a balanced Germany team as the reason Ronaldo won in a World Cup year (which is a reasonable opinion to hold on 2014), but you have the best World Cup performance in that timeframe as Messi in 2022 and it shouldn't be rewarded? Messi in the 2022 WC stood out and then some.

There's no point bothering.

There's never any consistency from the Ronaldo fans.

 

[Gehrman]

Exactly, Haaland scored so many goals because of the world class players aroubd him providing assist after assist, put him in Man Utd's current side and he would struggle to score 10.

Claiming Haaland should have won it is one of the most laughable things ever.

Haaland nearly has a 1/1 goals/ratio for every club he's played for. That's just nonsense. And for his country.

 

[Jeppers7]

Still waiting for your opinion. Who should have won it since to you messi is not in the conversation and you were not talking about haaland either.

Who has impressed you so much both internationally and domestically, that he should finish in front of both messi and haaland.

Guess it is hard to answer when there isn’t an answer

Pick a city player. Someone who didn’t rock up for 4 weeks and play in a farmers league for the rest of the season being outperformed hugely by Mbappe and Neymar. What is hard is when you aren’t basing a decision on the World Cup and you’re thinking…which footballer performed the best over the past 12 months and trying to think where Messi would fit in to that because to me he wouldn’t be high on my list.

Stop meithering me now. You have your opinion. You’re entitled to it. I have mine.

 

[Zehner]

Pick a city player. Someone who didn’t rock up for 4 weeks and play in a farmers league for the rest of the season being outperformed hugely by Mbappe and Neymar. What is hard is when you aren’t basing a decision on the World Cup and you’re thinking…which footballer performed the best over the past 12 months and trying to think where Messi would fit in to that because to me he wouldn’t be high on my list.

Stop meithering me now. You have your opinion. You’re entitled to it. I have mine.

On which basis were Neymar and Mbappe better than Messi in Ligue 1, let alone "hugely"?

 

[Swoobs]

Pick a city player. Someone who didn’t rock up for 4 weeks and play in a farmers league for the rest of the season being outperformed hugely by Mbappe and Neymar. What is hard is when you aren’t basing a decision on the World Cup and you’re thinking…which footballer performed the best over the past 12 months and trying to think where Messi would fit in to that because to me he wouldn’t be high on my list.

Stop meithering me now. You have your opinion. You’re entitled to it. I have mine.

Unsurprisingly no answer still. Saw “largely outperformed by mbappe and neymar” and “pick a city player” and realized people do have agenda driven opinions. Fair enough, they are entitled to have their opinion, however illogical it is

 

[AlexiV]

Haaland is nothing but a goal scorer. Messi is much more than that. Man City without Haaland would still win.

Though they failed at every attempt before his signing.

 

[AlexiV]

For me its a toss up. Between Messi, Haaland and Mpabbe. Messi's played more for PSG as the guy who delivers the service than ever and many passes that werent converted in goals were sublime. But i wouldnt have protested either if Haaland or Mpabbe won it. Essentially for me there wasnt any single footballer who was clearly the best in the world last season.

Fair enough.

 

[AlexiV]

Its because if Messi scores like Pele, dribbles like Maradonna and passes like Cryuff its not enough unless he wins the CL. At least it seems like alot people think like that.

For me all his ballons were deserved when he was playing at Barcelona, but for this one he wasn’t the best player over the whole season, just for the wc. You could argue Mbappe was better in the final. Giving it for sentimental reasons degrades the status of the trophy.

 

[red.knight]

Though they failed at every attempt before his signing.

Fair enough but as I said earlier Messi had more of an overall influence in games than Haaland. Messi won it because he was pivotal in winning Argentina the biggest prize of all, and their first in 36 years. And again i stress, at the ripe old age of 35. Messi deserves it.

 

[90 + 5min]

The same reason that Cannavaro got it in 2006, Ronaldo in 2002 when he played only 10 games outside the World Cup: he was the best player of the most important tournament in world football. "If you look at quality, he couldn't win on quality". Yes he can, did you see his World Cup performance? Could Haaland or Mbappe have won it? Sure. But Messi did, and it was decided by a lot of journalists and coaches of different countries.

You don't like it, your problem. But saying: "nobody cares about this award" is just a 10 year old child crying because the player he doesn't like won the most important individual award in world football... for the 8th time.

I don't care if they won or not. They didn't deserve that if it was same situation. It is no problem. Children, kids and younger generation that follow players and not clubs are interested in those trophies. I'm not. This has no relevance to football at all and what happens on field. Just people loving fameous people and wanting to meet them in person. Everybody knows that.

 

[Rojow]

For me all his ballons were deserved when he was playing at Barcelona, but for this one he wasn’t the best player over the whole season, just for the wc. You could argue Mbappe was better in the final. Giving it for sentimental reasons degrades the status of the trophy.

Mbappé wasn’t better than Messi in the final. Go and see some compilation of each one in the final.

 

[RedMessiah]

I don't care if they won or not. They didn't deserve that if it was same situation. It is no problem. Children, kids and younger generation that follow players and not clubs are interested in those trophies. I'm not. This has no relevance to football at all and what happens on field. Just people loving fameous people and wanting to meet them in person. Everybody knows that.

hahaha, "younger generation are not interested", "everybody knows that". That's just you not being able to cope with reality and trying to speak for everybody else. I bet if another player won the award, everybody would care right? You don't speak for anyone but yourself unless you have data to backup what you say. You're just a salty kid who doesn't like reality and makes up lies so it hurts less. Try to be a little bit smarter about it maybe.

 

[Jeppers7]

Unsurprisingly no answer still. Saw “largely outperformed by mbappe and neymar” and “pick a city player” and realized people do have agenda driven opinions. Fair enough, they are entitled to have their opinion, however illogical it is

Maybe I don’t think Messi is the best player in the world anymore. It’s not that hard to comprehend. Maybe I don’t think he was one of the best players in the world last year. Then for me I don’t consider him worthy of the award. Nothing more than that. You seem hung up on the issue.

 

[Pocho]

What are you talking about? Who said Otamendi has been shit throughout the tournament, can you read?
In Maradona's, Pele's, Zidane's, R9's teams, there were many players showing amazing performances as well, yet we always say they carried their team to WC glory. Do you know what that means?

Who cares about what you think about goals& assists? Messi is a GOAT level playmaker + dribbler + goalscorer, comparing a tap-in merchant with Messi.

Imagine thinking Messi is a penalty box poacher like Haaland the finals ghost camping in the penalty box all night long. Messi is a playmaker first, won IFFHS World's best playmaker award a record of 5 times.. Go watch some youtube videos..



That's because the best products of Italian, French, Spanish, Argentina, Brazil football almost always choose Spain or Italy. They prefer living in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid with a Latin influence over living in Manchester, Liverpool etc. is this surprising for you? PL has been a league where second fiddles to Xavi like David Silva, Mata, Fabregas wreak havoc.

You're still comparing the GOAT with one of the most one-dimensional strikers of all time with no passing, dribbling, link-up, hold-up play skills. The only way Haaland wins the Ballon D'or for Madrid is if he plays like Benzema and carries his team, that''s how you win Ballon D'or as a striker..He is too limited versus Benzema as a striker..

Thinks we will get impressed by his PL stats at City that has been dominating PL without a striker.. A team where even Raheem Sterling who is notorius for his finishing was able to score 20 in the PL..



You are too clueless, football is a team sport.. Of course, multiple players in the same team might have critical moments.. Messi is the MVP of the tournament, do you know what that means? Do you think that prevents his teammates from having key moments as well? Do you think Maradona's, Pele's, Zidane's, Cruyff's, Ronaldo's, Platini's teammates did not have moments saving their teams?

Talks about Messi's teammates contributions, conveniently ignoring how Haaland the tap-in merchant was bailed out in every single semis & final games.. 0 goals & assists in 8 games when City scored 12..

To put things into perspective, if Burruchaga missed the goal with Maradona's pass against Germany in the WC final and lost eventually, then Maradona would not be called a GOAT.

To put things into perspective, if Thuram did not score two against Croatia, in the WC semis when they were down 1-0, Zidane would not have the same legendary status he has now.

To put things into perspective, if Ronaldinho did not save his team against England in 2002 WC when they were down to 10-men in the QFs, R9 would not have the same legendary status..

To put things into perspective, if John Terry did not slip and missed the penalty in the CL semis when they were down 1-0, SAF would finish his career with a single CL and Ronaldo would have no CL before Real..

Do you want me to continue putting things into perspective for you?

great great post

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'd be embarrassed he won it this year if I were a Messi fanboy.

 

[Pocho]

People complaining about Messi getting his eighth ballon d’or. He should have like 15 of them, so be happy he only got 8.

 

[Andrade]

The irony given the Barcelona alegations



According to my opinion it should have been:

2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland

Rubbish opinion

 

[M113FF]

From City's squad last season Mahrez, De Bruyne, Gundogden, and Rodri were all probably played a bigger and more important part than Haaland in City's treble so should have been ahead of him.

With De Bruyne's hard work City and Haaland especially would have scored a lot less goals, It was Mahrez goals in the Semi that got City to the FA Cup final, it was Gundogdun's brace in the FA Cup final that won it for them, and it was Rodri's performance and goal in the European Cup final that completed the treble.

I'm not arguing he should have been ahead of Messi but you are seriously underplaying his contribution last season.

Haaland's record in the bigger PL games was excellent. Against the top 10 teams below City in the final table:
G+A
2+2 Arsenal
3+2 United
1+1 Newcastle
0+0 Liverpool (1 league game only but scored against them in the Cup)
2+1 Brighton
1+1 Villa
1+0 Spurs
0+0 Brentford (1 league game only)
2+0 Fulham
4+0 Palace

16 goals + 7 assists = 23 G+A in 18 games. Minutes played 1493.
Strike rate - 1 Goal or Assist every 65 minutes.

Champions League Knock-outs he was good as well:
5+0 Leipzig
2+1 Bayern
0+0 Real Madrid (Cortois made a couple of worldie saves)