Such an ordinary club without Messi..
Barcelona to fire Valverde. Quique Setién to take over
- Thread starter RoyH1
- Start date
It's not even about that. Look at the Barcelona squad realistically and their future. Barca is heading into a terrible, terrible era for the standard they set in the past decade especially with FFP. Barcelona is nothing special anymore. Least they don't get to cling on to "mes que en club" thing now now since the club sold out years ago to Qatar and Rakuten. Hipsters and fairweather fans.
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Yeah you beat us twice in the league and neither were comfortable. Your logic is crazy. Wolves beat us twice in the league too, would they comfortably dispatch barca?
Barca are a legit cl chasing team competing for titles. You guys are chasing Leicester for the Arsene Wenger trophy.
No one said you cant beat them, they've lost to worse, it's the notion of dismissing them as a team you'd beat comfortably when you are not even guaranteed cl football in a league many here dismiss as far weaker than 10 years ago that's ludicrous.
Lots of legit points here, Barca are certainly on the decline. It's the notion that current United would beat them comfortably that is crazy. 2 years time it's quite possible as you guys are building a top side but for now, no one in Europe dispatches them with ease.
The poster I quoted was dismissing them like they were Norwich.
The game at OT was extremely comfortable tbf
I woud also say that it could have been far worse for city with the inclusion of Pogba and Rashford in that team which were both out.
Jesus... What are all other clubs if Barcelona is ordinary?
Also see posters in here claiming Martial over Griezman. I find that very strange. Dont get me wrong, Martial is a good player with huge potential, but Griezman is currently a level or two higher..
When did I say it was easy? You’re just rambling now. Everything has a cycle , we’ll take the downturn when it comes
This forum can be awfully embarrassing sometimes, eh?
United wouldn't beat Barcelona comfortably today whatsoever - as much as I would like us to, but I do think we're heading in the right way
On the heat after my previous post anyway - especially knowing that so many teams go through an era and then it's followed by.. Still fortunate. We were given so many good years - just like Barcelona fans have been. Have to be grateful for that. I think the current United fans know it by now and we're still experiencing that transition period and so will Barca fans.. Again. Least what it looks like to me. Milan, Juventus and Real Madrid fans, etc. too. FFP makes it harder to sustain that level.
I just get triggered by people setting themselves up for disappointment and knowing how many fairweather fans there are out there that will jump the ship when it sinks.
If you are a Barcelona fan. I genuinely wonder how you look at the future of your team with Messi and most of your core following growing old. What you expect and what you want your team to do?
To me personally Barcelona looks completely hopeless today. Like I said previously, Pique 33 years old, Alba 31, Busquets 31, Rakitic, 32, Vidal 33, Suarez 33, Messi 33, Griezmann 29. How will these players be replaced?
That's all that I was saying. Barcelona will experience the same exact downcycle that United and basically any team that have been great have gone through after an era - whether it's done yet or not, I don't know, but Barcelona is only starting their own. It's only natural when you lose a core of some of the greatest players to ever play the game. There's no quick fix. Many of those players and the cohesion is irreplaceable - least if you put them into the era where they played.
I wish we could've kept SAF - those players and kept dominating the league forever. Pick a CL title here and there too, but I'd be geniunenly worried if I was a Barcelona fan. I've been dreading our future since Moyes took over in 2013 until now. Now there's some hope at least. I only believe that Barcelona will go through the same because I don't see much hope there either with the players they are about to lose and need to replace especially in a era with FFP.
Do enlighten me what your idea of the future of FC Barcelona is for the next coming years and what is looking up if I'm wrong
Griezmann is 29 and scored 14 in 43
Martial is 24 and scored 19 in 38
Not saying that Martial is better right now, but there's a massive difference in comparing the two - considering the future
Yeah I agree unfortunately. Lot's of United fans going overboard with excitement. I mean sure, it's great we are getting on a good streak, have a good young core and look to be on the way up but we currently aren't really close to Barca.
I thought the point of this thread was that Barca was mismanaged currently which I do not think even Barca fans will disagree. Yes, they have an ageing squad, yes there'll be a dip post Messi. But there's no need to extrapolate this for some reason to state United is better than Barca.
I really hope we get there with the right investments (Sancho fingers crossed and quality depth in other places) and that's what's exciting for me as a United fan. Our challenges are first to consolidate top 4, then top 3 before looking at the league and then, post that, is when CL and Barca come into picture.
Come on lads, as United fans we should always be honest about our club as it is in our best interests. So, any notion of disposing Barcelona comfortably “in their current state” is ridiculous verging on nonsense. I know we were abysmal towards the end of last season, but we were still hammered 4-0 across 2 games! Even if we played them now in a series of 10 games without Messi, I think we would only win about 40% of them.
They do seem to be in a constant state of turmoil though and without knowing too much about Barcelona’s hierarchy, I doubt Bartomeu and Abidal are doing much to curb their evident decline. Of course, when Messi goes, their lack of a succession plan will mean that they will probably decline further and plummet behind Real and Atletico, but I don’t see it getting any worse than that. They will still have remarkable pulling power due to their name (like us) and positive external factors like a beautiful city and nice weather (unlike us). They are luckier than us too in the sense that they undoubtedly have a weaker top 4-6 to contend with when the bleak years come, so will still be competing in the CL annually. Besides, I doubt they will ever have a manager as bad as Moyes to ruin every bit of good work Messi (SAF in our case) did.
However, just to end off, I do find @Daysleeper ‘s arrogance in regards to United a bit unfounded. To summarise my thoughts in a sentence, Barca are clearly on the down (you know that mate) while we are on the up. If all goes well, once Messi leaves, we will surpass you with better players and our current young ones at their peak. That is when we will actually beat Barcelona comfortably.
They do seem to be in a constant state of turmoil though and without knowing too much about Barcelona’s hierarchy, I doubt Bartomeu and Abidal are doing much to curb their evident decline. Of course, when Messi goes, their lack of a succession plan will mean that they will probably decline further and plummet behind Real and Atletico, but I don’t see it getting any worse than that. They will still have remarkable pulling power due to their name (like us) and positive external factors like a beautiful city and nice weather (unlike us). They are luckier than us too in the sense that they undoubtedly have a weaker top 4-6 to contend with when the bleak years come, so will still be competing in the CL annually. Besides, I doubt they will ever have a manager as bad as Moyes to ruin every bit of good work Messi (SAF in our case) did.
However, just to end off, I do find @Daysleeper ‘s arrogance in regards to United a bit unfounded. To summarise my thoughts in a sentence, Barca are clearly on the down (you know that mate) while we are on the up. If all goes well, once Messi leaves, we will surpass you with better players and our current young ones at their peak. That is when we will actually beat Barcelona comfortably.
Says a Barcelona fan commenting on a Manchester United forum. The only thing embarrassing is paying 110 million for Greizman and he can’t even start key games for you.
Here’s a hot tip, if you need other posters, especially newbies to back up your claims, you’re stretching it.
You didn't mention anyone in particular but I think that any United fan that didn't jump the ship already are very honest and loyal to our club. Who do you mean isn't? Quote the names instead. We have had a very fecking shite experience relative to our previous era based on the standards and the expectations that came with it. The people around aren't fairweather fans anymore. Better keep an eye open for who comes back when things changes though. Liverpool just won the league for ****s sake. It's been 7 years since we did.Come on lads, as United fans we should always be honest about our club as it is in our best interests. So, any notion of disposing Barcelona comfortably “in their current state” is ridiculous verging on nonsense. I know we were abysmal towards the end of last season, but we were still hammered 4-0 across 2 games! Even if we played them now in a series of 10 games without Messi, I think we would only win about 40% of them.
They do seem to be in a constant state of turmoil though and without knowing too much about Barcelona’s hierarchy, I doubt Bartomeu and Abidal are doing much to curb their evident decline. Of course, when Messi goes, their lack of a succession plan will mean that they will probably decline further and plummet behind Real and Atletico, but I don’t see it getting any worse than that. They will still have remarkable pulling power due to their name (like us) and positive external factors like a beautiful city and nice weather (unlike us). They are luckier than us too in the sense that they undoubtedly have a weaker top 4-6 to contend with when the bleak years come, so will still be competing in the CL annually. Besides, I doubt they will ever have a manager as bad as Moyes to ruin every bit of good work Messi (SAF in our case) did.
However, just to end off, I do find @Daysleeper ‘s arrogance in regards to United a bit unfounded. To summarise my thoughts in a sentence, Barca are clearly on the down (you know that mate) while we are on the up. If all goes well, once Messi leaves, we will surpass you with better players and our current young ones at their peak. That is when we will actually beat Barcelona comfortably.
My point in this thread was, whether I was part of your target or not, is that Barcelona is heading down that hole too. It's not doom and gloom. They will still be a competitive club but they are losing the rest of their core that was left behind after Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Valdes etc. in the next few years - Messi, Pique and players like Suarez and Griezmann. Tough years inc. Least the holy land of La Masia will be put to test especially during FFP.
Here's a hot tip, it's sad when the newbies know a lot more than you do. United had been making awful signing for a long time post fergie
United being on the up may jut be a blip on the radar though. You were on the up when Ole took over and then went through a horrible stretch after the honeymoon phase. If Barca wins the league next year and United still end up in Europa then what? Barca's best players are over 30, no arguing there, but even United trending upward is still a long ways away from challenging for their league. Especially with City and Pool still being heads and shoulders above the rest of the EPL. Which is why this "trending upward" argument is bollocks. I envy the squads of Liverpool and Bayern far more than United.Come on lads, as United fans we should always be honest about our club as it is in our best interests. So, any notion of disposing Barcelona comfortably “in their current state” is ridiculous verging on nonsense. I know we were abysmal towards the end of last season, but we were still hammered 4-0 across 2 games! Even if we played them now in a series of 10 games without Messi, I think we would only win about 40% of them.
They do seem to be in a constant state of turmoil though and without knowing too much about Barcelona’s hierarchy, I doubt Bartomeu and Abidal are doing much to curb their evident decline. Of course, when Messi goes, their lack of a succession plan will mean that they will probably decline further and plummet behind Real and Atletico, but I don’t see it getting any worse than that. They will still have remarkable pulling power due to their name (like us) and positive external factors like a beautiful city and nice weather (unlike us). They are luckier than us too in the sense that they undoubtedly have a weaker top 4-6 to contend with when the bleak years come, so will still be competing in the CL annually. Besides, I doubt they will ever have a manager as bad as Moyes to ruin every bit of good work Messi (SAF in our case) did.
However, just to end off, I do find @Daysleeper ‘s arrogance in regards to United a bit unfounded. To summarise my thoughts in a sentence, Barca are clearly on the down (you know that mate) while we are on the up. If all goes well, once Messi leaves, we will surpass you with better players and our current young ones at their peak. That is when we will actually beat Barcelona comfortably.
What? So did your knowledge improve once you got promoted to mains?
It's newbies in a football forum, not kindergarten. People who joined late will be newbies and they have excellent knowledge on the game.
In your head you might be insulting the mains poster but in reality you are insulting newbies. How much you know about football has nothing to do with your status in caf.
Exactly. We are definitely on the downturn nothing to defend that, but the arrogance of the United fans because they're finally playing decent football is bizarre. I could understand it coming from City and Pool fans.
I'm not looking to insult anyone. It's just bizarre how United, who had been horribly managed for many many years post SAF are pointing at Barca when United themselves may not even end up in a CL spot.
Yeah, because United are in a mess their fans shouldn't point fingers at Barca. Maybe if these fans suddenly say they are Liverpool or Madrid, Juve, Bayern fans can they point fingers?
Anyways I'm out of this. My point was your football knowledge has nothing to do with your caf status.
And that’s a very fair point
This is precisely why United fans recognize similarities in the shortcomings of Barca's transfer business and how that can result in a decline in performance for the club. We have lived through it in the post-Ferguson era, and only now, after 3 managers and 7 years on from Ferguson's departure does the club seem to have finally charted the right course.
With United, many of the issues regarding structure and recruitment were issues under Ferguson, but as the GOAT manager he was able to mask many of those deficiencies and we remained relevant as constant domestic contender and in Europe. With Barca, many of those same issues are resulting in drops in performance which Messi covers over. Sure, Barca are still pushing for La Liga, and alive in Europe, but those things are happening, because of Messi, not the overall great management and structure of the club.
United supporters know what a horribly managed club looks like, because that's what we've been for a good while, and if we're being honest were towards the end of Ferguson's reign. It's why looking at Barca now gives off similar vibes of a club slowly sinking into decline, even if on the surface things appear to be relatively fine for now.
All good. No hard feelings from me.
Like every football fan, you've assumed the best for your team and worst for the team you are arguing against.. No fault of yours, everybody does the same. Just know that you are the same as everyone else in this forum then. Bit idiotic to assume you are some sort of an impartial poster here. Cheers
You’re utterly misunderstanding mate. If you read my post again, you’ll realise that I did not call you or anyone a fairweather fan. I have the same definition of a “fairweather fan” as you; if anyone stopped caring or supporting us during those bleak years, or posted things like “ive had enough” or “im done with this club” and have stopped posting since, they are plastic and don’t deserve to enjoy our future success. For you, or me, or anyone who’s moaned and said “ole out, f**k pogba and his antics” but still continued loving and supporting the club, we are all real fans.
Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. Back to my original point, Barca are about to enter some real murky waters, especially with this financial cloud hanging over them.
Seriously, you don’t think United are making progress? Just take a look at our current form, young squad and even our progressive, young manager. In three years, Hendo will be 26, Rashy and AWB 25, Martial 27, Bruno 28, Sancho (if we sign him) 23, Maguire 29 and finally, Pogba at age 30. That is 8 players who are already top class now at their peak age (yes, Pogba and Maguire too, they don’t rely on pace so wouldn’t be declining yet, this isn’t Fifa), and who are all theoretically perfect for Ole’s modern style of passing, high-pressing football.
So mate, you’re telling me this team doesn’t have even a semblance of a chance of let alone challenging for the league, but the CL in 3 years (which I think is what you mean when you say “long way away”). Come on now.
3 years anything can happen but far from guaranteed. As of today they are a long ways away. And again, we’ve seen good performances from United before only for them to tail off right after.
I do think you guys have gotten better no question. Bruno has been a godsend and he’s been able to get Pogba back on board.
All of this has back and forth has stemmed from united fans bizarrely acting arrogant about Barca’s situation when for all we know Barca could win the league next year and then what? This thread honestly makes it sound like Barca won’t win another trophy again because they are having just their second trophy less season in the past ten years. I think so much of it is so over the top.
We do have a downturn coming but I do think once this board leaves in may (they aren’t able to get re elected) the team will be better off.
But I agree. United have gotten better, make CL in 3 years, not too sure about them winning the league. But if in 2011 you told me Atletico would’ve won the league and gone to 2 CL finals in the next few years I'd have thought you were crazy.
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Watched barca today for the first time after Brighton match. Really liked the energy and urgency of them . They have some nice players like fati and a midget playing in midfield who I have never seen before. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild when all of their players are on high wage. Still miles ahead of us in terms of quality but nowhere near to dominate europe and la liga.
. They have some nice players like fati and a midget playing in midfield who I have never seen before. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild when all of their players are on high wage. Still miles ahead of us in terms of quality but nowhere near to dominate europe and la liga.Quique Setien looks like such a non-factor on the sidelines.
Haha that riqui puig, firecracker of a playerWatched barca today for the first time after Brighton match. Really liked the energy and urgency of them
Can we purge the forum of Barca fans too.
I second this motion.
A bit early to say if Barça are done for the next 4-6 seasons. They have De Jong, might sign Lautaro, elections incoming, the cantera (Puig, Fati, etc), ties with Qatar ($$), Xavi as their next manager, etc.
But the 2014-2020 era is done for real. The core of Piqué, Busquets, Rakitic, Messi, Suárez is done...
But the 2014-2020 era is done for real. The core of Piqué, Busquets, Rakitic, Messi, Suárez is done...
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When they lost Neymar, they went into panic mode. They should never have bought Dembele that fast.
There is a vast difference between the two and a couple hints are found in the XG and possession too. We played teams often in Ole's first 12-13 games where the XG didn't reflect our scoreline. The current games (stretching last 14/15 games) play out far differently, we dominate possession, control the games and create more chances. They aren't counter attack "lets surprise the opponent" type of games that we had in Ole's first spell. Moreover it's not just Bruno, but the improved consistency of Matic, Martial and emergence of Greenwood are massive factors (not to forget Maguire and AWB together much improving the stability at the back and ability to play out from deep). This is all before Rashford has even got going.
I think it's more the fact that Barcelona have regressed consistently over the seasons and their financial state coupled with how badly they are run means it's not likely to improve any time soon. Noting your point about a re-election of the board but to what extent does this resolve Barcelona's financial issues? Is it presumptious to think the next board will be much better than this? How will you continue to plan beyond Messi? There are a lot of uncertainties with Barcelona and I think that's what we're pointing to more.
I think 2-3 more players (ranging between world class - "good" level) will get us a title challenge. You add Sancho and a central midfielder and I think we can challenge the likes of City and Liverpool. On paper the teams aren't far off, our problem under Ole was failing to break teams down and the need for Maguire/AWB to settle on top. The latter is established and the former just won't be an issue when you have Bruno/Pogba pulling strings for Rashford-Martial-Sancho. That's just a ridiculous attack and more than capable of putting away teams consistently.
If Ole had a poor record vs the top 6 I'd agree with you, but the fact he has a fantastic record shows versus them before we brought Bruno in and stablized the team (pre Sancho) shows we are likely virtually there. We now look like we can either dominate games versus the mid-lower tier teams and can easily hit the big teams on a counter.
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I don't even know why I watch Barcelona, they are absolutely depressing. They haven't play as a team for years, they have no clear plan outside of giving the ball to Messi and hope that he does something.
I watched the last half-hour last night. Barcelona were dreadful. Atleti probably had the better chances to win it towards the end, too.
Worrying times for the ‘More Than A Club’ wankers...
Worrying times for the ‘More Than A Club’ wankers...
Blaming the coaches is the easy option. No doubt it's the one that the Barcelona board will take. However, the problems at Barcelona run deeper than any coach.
The squad is top heavy, unbalanced and underperforming. It needs gutting and reforming. Barcelona's recruitment policy has seen them invest where it's not needed, neglecting where it is. Having Messi is the main thing keeping them competitive with Madrid.
Barca fans were crazy not to seek new leadership at elections years ago.
The squad is top heavy, unbalanced and underperforming. It needs gutting and reforming. Barcelona's recruitment policy has seen them invest where it's not needed, neglecting where it is. Having Messi is the main thing keeping them competitive with Madrid.
Barca fans were crazy not to seek new leadership at elections years ago.