Surprised to see the Queen attend ,she was a lefty according to Thatcher.
Baroness Margaret Thatcher has Passed Away
- Thread starter Drifter
- Start date
Just heard Mandelson claiming on radio 4 Thatcher telling him "just remember the Irish are all liars".
Not sure I'd put too much faith in what comes out of his mouth.Hermann Goering was a leftie according to Thatcher.
As much as I'm not a fan of Thatcher, I wouldn't trust anything that emanates from the mouth of Mandelson. Utterly corrupt and morally-bankrupt individual.
If true, it only underlines how ignorant such an ordinarily intelligent person could be: there are sound, historical reasons why some outsiders considered the Irish to be 'liars' (along with the Welsh, the Scots etc etc); they were lying because whenever the English arrived in Ireland asking for directions or for the whereabouts of a wanted man, well, feck telling the truth...
I'm currently doing some research for a book concerning Chinese labourers during the Great War. Many were court-martialled for various offences against military law. Standing orders to courts-martial officers stated that it was pointless administering an oath to the Chinese because they were all congenital liars.
It's not something you'd say if you want to bring peace to the region. No wonder the conflict lasted for so long with many casualties.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/17/margaret-thatcher-funeral-lord-mandelson_n_3098108.html
Nice alternative funeral going on. The beeb should get dimbleby to waffle on over it.
So leaving the domestic politics to one side for a moment, you wouldn't even credit her with any achievements or good decisions as far as the Cold War went [for which people might respect her]?
For the most part her decisions were A. moan about communism, and B. Do whatever dear ole Ronnie wanted (with a couple of notable, island-related exceptions). The first half of the 80s was an utter disaster, and possibly the most dangerous era of the Cold War, due to the bellicose rhetoric and pointless aggression from America and, to a much lesser extent, Britain. They basically took Detente out back and shot it in the head, putting the entire world in great danger for no plausible gain beyond a much larger American military.
In the latter half of the decade, as Ronnie was sidelined due to his inability to remember his own name, the smart people in the room took over and, recognising what Gorbachev was trying to do and the fact that the USSR was in the shit, dialled everything down, quickly abandoning the John Wayne-style foreign policy that nearly had such disastrous consequences for a much more conciliatory approach. Again Maggie merely played along, doing her part by chumming up with Gorbachev and making those visits behind the Iron Curtain, but realistically she had very little influence on proceedings. We were never a big deal in the Cold War, as much as we love to think so.
In essence the misrepresentation I'm decrying is this bizarrely popular notion that the Cold War was ended by Reagan swinging his dick around and the USSR collapsing in terror, and the Brits who buy into that nonsense tend to claim Thatcher was a huge part of it, despite the endless mountain ranges of evidence to the contrary.
The worst part, however, has to be this idea that she somehow 'liberated Eastern Europe'. The main force for change there was, shock horror, trade unions, and we all know how she felt about those.
In the latter half of the decade, as Ronnie was sidelined due to his inability to remember his own name, the smart people in the room took over and, recognising what Gorbachev was trying to do and the fact that the USSR was in the shit, dialled everything down, quickly abandoning the John Wayne-style foreign policy that nearly had such disastrous consequences for a much more conciliatory approach. Again Maggie merely played along, doing her part by chumming up with Gorbachev and making those visits behind the Iron Curtain, but realistically she had very little influence on proceedings. We were never a big deal in the Cold War, as much as we love to think so.
In essence the misrepresentation I'm decrying is this bizarrely popular notion that the Cold War was ended by Reagan swinging his dick around and the USSR collapsing in terror, and the Brits who buy into that nonsense tend to claim Thatcher was a huge part of it, despite the endless mountain ranges of evidence to the contrary.
The worst part, however, has to be this idea that she somehow 'liberated Eastern Europe'. The main force for change there was, shock horror, trade unions, and we all know how she felt about those.
The Russians were crippled trying to keep up with the West after Detente ended. Most of the investment in the US military went to replacing outdated planes, weapons and protection systems.
The Soviet Union fell apart for various reasons, mostly relating to the fact that Communism is a mad way to run any system, never mind a mind-bogglingly vast country/federation/empire.
Military spending as the primary cause is a toxic myth, mostly used to blow smoke up Reagan's arse.
Military spending as the primary cause is a toxic myth, mostly used to blow smoke up Reagan's arse.
Or goes into it.
Ooooh, matron!
I think Thatcher made some necessary changes, but you can't help feel she should have gone about things in a different way. She certainly destroyed lots of communities all over Britain. But she also modernised a lot of the UK.
Her influence on the World stage is overstated. She attracted much media attention abroad because of her personality. But the reality is that Britain had already lost its power a long time ago.
Anyway, rest in hell you bitch!
Her influence on the World stage is overstated. She attracted much media attention abroad because of her personality. But the reality is that Britain had already lost its power a long time ago.
Anyway, rest in hell you bitch!
Well the people have spoken.
Not even ten thousand people turned out for Thatchers funeral, in a City of 8.2 million people! To contrast how pathetic this attendance is: when the Queen mother died, one million people lined the street to pay their respects; when Arton Senna died three million people were on the streets of Brazil for his funeral; three hundred thousand people passed Churchill's coffin as he lay in state.
What an absolute waste of £10m. Who are the Tories trying to fool?
Not even ten thousand people turned out for Thatchers funeral, in a City of 8.2 million people! To contrast how pathetic this attendance is: when the Queen mother died, one million people lined the street to pay their respects; when Arton Senna died three million people were on the streets of Brazil for his funeral; three hundred thousand people passed Churchill's coffin as he lay in state.
What an absolute waste of £10m. Who are the Tories trying to fool?
At the same time, how much is it costing the taxpayer to keep the terrorist Abu Qatada on these shores.
Must have heard about the Unemployment figures.
The Thatcher love in is sickening.
By the standards of this shit, Tony Blair will be made a saint when he dies.
By the standards of this shit, Tony Blair will be made a saint when he dies.
Well he is Catholic, so there's a slight chance.
Saw a clip on the news of scousers singing,
'Lets all do the conga, Thatchers with us no longer'
'Lets all do the conga, Thatchers with us no longer'
fecking hell.
Maybe those mourning the loss of their coal mines should look a little closer to home than Thatcher.
Harold Wilson closed 290 mines and only about 160 were closed under Thatcher.
Harold Wilson closed 290 mines and only about 160 were closed under Thatcher.
James Crosby giving up 30% of his pension hit Osbourne hard.
I've got a faded copy of "New Deal for Coal" somewhere lying around. I don't disbelieve you but where did you come up with those figures?
Since most or all the ex-miners were labour voters, the chances of that happening are very slim indeed. Here are the facts Marching:
A total of 3,934 mines were closed under the Labour government and Harold Wilson in 12 years or an average of 327 mines per year for each year he was in power. For Thatcher, the grand total of mines closed when she was Prime Minister was 1,723 mines or a average of 156 mines per year. She merely finished what the left-wing government started, so, if they want to point a finger at someone, then it should be Harold Fecking Wilson.
Source:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2013/04/wilson-closed-more-coal-mines-than-thatcher.html
There are lies, damned lies and statistics. The figures are in black and white. Wilson was basically the one who messed up this country and Thatcher somehow had to get it back on track after mess he had made.
That's something that is conveniently overlooked.
He has just won the vote to be next Conservative leader.
Indeed M.U.M. The labour voters and indeed the voters were sold a lie thinking it was the fault of Margaret Thatcher when in reality it wasn't. They were fed the Socialist propaganda and they lapped it up.
They're quite lifelike, those Madame Tussauds dummies.
As has been alluded to in this thread numerous times - it is not the closure of the mine's themselves that is abhorred.
But the divisive, shockingly draconian ways and tactics with which it was done, and the devastation to communitites she quite clearly gave no feck about that she left behind.
But the divisive, shockingly draconian ways and tactics with which it was done, and the devastation to communitites she quite clearly gave no feck about that she left behind.
Nah. He's just found out that Boris Johnson is banging his missus.
I agree. Can't argue with the mine closure figures under the Wilson government but Thatcher's lot turned the whole issue into a war.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/22/miners-strike-orgreave-bloodiest-battle
And of course Wilson gave a toss about shutting even more pits?I would suggest a Labour Govt does give far more of a toss about 'society' than Thatcher's Conservatives, yes.
I just like to point out that I am neither "for or against" Thatcher.
All politicians are as bad as each other and all have policies that we love to hate.
All politicians are as bad as each other and all have policies that we love to hate.