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Bayern Munich 2018
- Thread starter Adisa
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It's totally unlikely....i have seen nearly every Bayern Munich game this season and Kovac is lucky that there is still enough quality in the team to beat clubs like Augsburg......Kovac is clueless on top level football. I want so much that Bayern Munich will beat Liverpool but i really can't see it.
Is this the first time Kovac chanced the setup of the team? The FBs were not pushing up the pitch at all and he was playing for a 0-0
They did well tonight, more than what was expected. Their flanks are crap and need 2 new additions though.
Might explain tonight’s performance then
He's just not a very good player.
His reputation far outweighs his performances it must be due to the fact he has been at PSG,Juventus and Bayern.
What we saw from Bayern in the first leg is probably the style Kovac is more comfortable coaching.
They desperately need an injection of quality.
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Will they not just cherry pick Sancho from Dortmund? Textbook Bayern?
Most of that cherry picking (not only from Dortmund) is when the players have run down their contract so that Bayern can sign them on a free (Lewandowski, Goretzka) or for a reasonable sum because the selling clubs wanted to at least get money out of the deal (eg Hummels, Süle). They signed Götze activating a release clause. Even if I was quite unhappy at any given time they signed a player from Dortmund it would be hypocritical for me to blame them for it since we are signing our fair share of players from the Bundesliga as well.
Concerning Sancho: He has a contract that runs until 2022 and does not contain a release clause so none of the tactics mentioned above can be used in the next two summer transfer windows. So they can't sign him for a bargain and he will simply be too expensive for them considering they have quite a few issues to adress. I also think they might not be the most attractive club for Sancho who can probably just pick and choose where he wants to play next.
Well, Bild is pretty well informend when its about transfers that are done or which have an agreement, as in Werners case.
While Bild in my opinion is mostly bullsh*t Sport Bild is at least a bit more reliable. This report sounds like a solid guess much up their alley. Werner to Munich has been a rumour for quite some time but not a lot has come of it as of yet. This is also a low risk report for them because they can just claim: "the clubs were unable to agree a deal" and be done with it. So while I do kind of hope Bayern go for this since I do not rate Werner too highly and assume he will be quite costly I don't think this report makes it any more likely. Probably just to fill the pages in Sport Bild.
Always thought it was the other way around. Sportbild is mostly bullshit whereas Bild actually has some quite good sources and is often well informed about transfer dealings especially concerning Bayern.
Incoming next season:
Pavard - starting CB (22)
Arp - backup-backup striker/2nd team (19)
very likely:
Timo Werner (22)
likely:
Havertz (19)
Hernandez (22)
already there:
- Tolisso
- Coman
- Gnabry
- Kimmich
- Goretzka
- Sanches
- Davies
- Süle (all <25)
dosn't look all that grim...
Pavard - starting CB (22)
Arp - backup-backup striker/2nd team (19)
very likely:
Timo Werner (22)
likely:
Havertz (19)
Hernandez (22)
already there:
- Tolisso
- Coman
- Gnabry
- Kimmich
- Goretzka
- Sanches
- Davies
- Süle (all <25)
dosn't look all that grim...
not gonna happen.
Likely: Havertz? 
Have Bayern under achieved in Europe? They're basically in a 1 team league (yes I know Dortmund are leading the race but Bayern will catch them). They have the pick of all the best players within that league too. They can focus on the CL due to wrapping up leagues early most the time.
Are Bayern under ambitious? It's clear in recently years money buys success. Madrid won the CL with a crop of expensive players, Barcelona recently won the treble with Suarez and Neymar costing huge money. Bayern are by no means a poor club, in fact they're up there in the top 5 revenue. Why don't they get involved in the Bales, Neymars, Pogbas?
Are Bayern fans just happy with domestic dominance in a boring league?
I like Bayern and what they're doing but those are the questions I ask myself.
Are Bayern under ambitious? It's clear in recently years money buys success. Madrid won the CL with a crop of expensive players, Barcelona recently won the treble with Suarez and Neymar costing huge money. Bayern are by no means a poor club, in fact they're up there in the top 5 revenue. Why don't they get involved in the Bales, Neymars, Pogbas?
Are Bayern fans just happy with domestic dominance in a boring league?
I like Bayern and what they're doing but those are the questions I ask myself.
That doesn't look like the transfers of a club in desperate need of quality.
Its debatable whether that is the case. The way i see it, the positions GK, CB and all midfield positions are just fine, if not too full already. Needed are a striker backup for Lewy, winger backups for Coman/Gnabry, especially with Coman trying to become Glassbone Robben 2.0 (Davies imo won't be at the required level in the foreseeable future). Rafinha is leaving and Kimmich is pushing to play midfield, which pretty much leaves the team with Alaba as FB
- so chasing Hernandez and Hudson-Odoi (or an alternative) makes a lot of sense. Lot of talk about other possible targets like Pepe (Lille), even Asensio.. we'll see.
Because we’re in denial about our need for quality.
That's Bayern's decline in a nutshell.Its debatable whether that is the case. The way i see it, the positions GK, CB and all midfield positions are just fine, if not too full already. Needed are a striker backup for Lewy, winger backups for Coman/Gnabry, especially with Coman trying to become Glassbone Robben 2.0 (Davies imo won't be at the required level in the foreseeable future). Rafinha is leaving and Kimmich is pushing to play midfield, which pretty much leaves the team with Alaba as FB
- so chasing Hernandez and Hudson-Odoi (or an alternative) makes a lot of sense. Lot of talk about other possible targets like Pepe (Lille), even Asensio.. we'll see.
Oh, I see. Pretty much explains the response I got from @strongwalker.
i fail to see a quality gap between, lets say, Sane, Sancho, and Coman. Thats the state of denial i'm in
Bale cost 90M 5yrs ago, Pogba went for 90M 3yrs ago, Neymar for 220M.
There is no way Bayern can afford that. These other clubs Madrid, Barca, PSG City have a strong outside financial partner and in the Bundesliga outside injection of money is not allowed. Madrid and Barca are able to independently negotiate TV contracts and not have to share with the other teams in the league
Bayern don't have the pick of best Bundesliga players, Sane Gundogan Firmino Mkhitaryan Dembele all went abroad
If you add up Coman's and Sancho's Bundesliga seasons he's only slightly behind in terms of goals and assists, so I guess that's a reasonable point of view.i fail to see a quality gap between, lets say, Sane, Sancho, and Coman. Thats the state of denial i'm in
Noone is going to replace Ribery/Robben without some sort of decline. Even a younger version of them would be a downgrade compared to their heights (remember that Robben only exploded at Bayern especially in regards to his goal output and Ribery was a player with a lot of promise but could easily have gone the way of someone like Quaresma who was actually our alternative at taht time).
Real has that same problem with CR7 and Barca will have it with Messi (and they still haven't replaced Neymar or his output).
If a season like the current one is our "low point" then I'm okay with that. You can't always be at the very top but even in recent years and this one we still have been very competitive (as the games vs Real or now Liverpool show).
I mean people keep talking about us not being ambitious enough while in reality even clubs like City and PSG can't force their way to the top that easily. You can certainly argue that we could have been more aggressive on the transfer market in the last two years but people were also saying the same between 2011 and 2013 (including selling players or being against certain transfers which would become an important part of our CL winning side).
Then there is also always a certain amount of luck involved. Like I said transfers like Ribery and Robben could have turned out different while someone like Götze never fulfilled his promise and other (young) players are set back by constant injuries (Thiago, Coman, Tolisso).
Sometimes it just takes 2 or 3 players to take a team in a totally different direction and those players don't even need to be "new", a jump in their development can be enough (see Schweinsteiger's transformation over the years or how Müller appeared out of nowhere).
To add to that: De Bruyne(!), Sahin, Kagawa (at the time they left they would have been considered "Bayern transfers"), Özil, Reus, Draxler, Xhaka, Aubameyang and so on
Since 2010 we got the following top level players from other BL clubs: Neuer, Hummels (a former youth player), Lewandowski and Götze.
That's 4 players in 8 years despite the output of german football and the BL in that time frame and only one of them was even part of the team that won the CL.
If anything we were maybe too friendly to our fellow BL clubs in recent years, english clubs certainly don't have an issue with raiding BL teams.
How about this kid Havertz at BL? Are you getting him?
I'm sure we are interested (it's no secret that we follow his development) and that he could strengthen us (at least in the long term). If James does leave he is certainly the obvious candidate to replace him.
But that doesn't mean we will easily get him. Völler (Leverkusen) has been tough to negotiate with since quite some time and they will ask for a price which we might not want to pay this summer though it wouldn't surprise me that if we do pay a ridiculous fee then it's gonna be for a player like Havertz. So I guess if Völler "only" asks for something like 60-65m we might go with that (it's not worlds off the Tolisso/Sanches transfer fees) in case we don't keep James.
That last part is however important. Havertz only makes sense if James goes because Müller, James and Havertz for one position (AM) is certainly too much. Havertz might be able to develop into a great CM in the future (maybe like Kroos) but at this point in his career I don't see him there.
The question I can't answer is how open Havertz himself is to a transfer at this point in his career and if he considers options outside of Germany because I'm sure he'll get plenty of offers from other top clubs too.
That's what I thought. Great to see him boost the Bundesliga but I can see him moving too
Every team bar Real Madrid have underachieved in Europe. Judged that way, Barcelona, PSG, Juve, City, Bayern have certainly won less than what could have reasonably been expected of them.
Or you could say, winning the European Cup is incredibly difficult and making the semifinals regularly is an achievement in itself.
Bayern did not have a top level Ribery and Robben for a long time now. And more important than top level Ribery and Robben in my eyes was the system as even in 14/15 or 15/16 we went pretty far without both wingers...
Robben was never as good as he was at Bayern - not in the national team or before at other clubs - as he never had his Lahm and Müller with him elsewhere. The class of that team and their offensives depended so much on that system that since 2011 Robben only scored one goal in the CL final round when we did not play with a 4-2-3-1 with hanging striker and the striker in this system, no matter if Gomez, Mandzukic or Lewandowski did similar. Just to take Lewandowski - he had 11 goals in the CL final round since coming to Bayern in 2014. 2 penalties, 1 goal against Arsenal 2017 after Kos got injured, 8 with hanging striker. Müller hat most of his goals as hanging striker, too - funnily since 2014 he had 2 goals as single striker in front of a 3 man-midfield compared to Lewy's one.
It was not just the two wingers - it was the way the team was able to emphasize their strengths in the system and especially in 2012/13 the will of Robben and Ribery to work for the team, too. In matches against minor teams they could do that on their own - but against the big teams the dependence was much bigger.
I do not think the way is just to have two individuals but to have a good working system that emphasizes the strengths of the single players. That was the real great thing about the treble-winning-team and the time later. The problem right now is that neither Ancelotti nor Kovac's system does.
Lucas Hernandez good signing. They now got both of France's World cup winning full backs.
Sancho has an amazing run, i'll give you that. We'll see how that keeps up in the long term (if he even stays for "a long term"). Coman doesn't put out as many goals or assists, true, but that doesn't mean he's playing badly. Scored season ratings of better than "3" in the Kickers ranking system in 3 out of 4 Buli seasons so far, and you know how rare that is for a field player. Made more remarkable by his row of injuries.
Do other clubs have significantly more buying power? Yes. Could Bayern afford at least one or two of such players? You betcha; and, as opposed to several other big player clubs (Chelsea, City, PSG..), Bayern is under no threat to suffer from a hiring ban.
The difference is, so far Bayern has avoided to hire players who are obviously fortune hunters, whose agents are crooks, or who try to use a Bayern offer to extract more money from a different club (see Costa).
Apparently, todays policy is to go for players who aren't in the top star rank yet but may have potential, like Tolisso, Coman, Gnabry, Sanches etc., and only hire established top players when all the boxes are ticked (need, motivation of player, personality/motivation matching, etc).
We'll see how that works out and if it can be maintained without losing contact to the echelon of top clubs. Imo, it might still work, a team is still more than the sum of its players. It needs a coach with a good plan, and i have my concerns whether Kovac is the man for the job.
No club in the world has an auto-pick, even Barca couldn't hold Neymar. Some you get, some you don't, some you never wanted...
De Bruyne, Sane? Bayern won't be able to sign Sancho too.
I'm fairly sure both those players would've picked Bayern over City had Bayern reached into their pockets.
Yeah but that's exactly the thing. Bayern's pocket aren't nearly as deep City's (or yours).
It always seems to me as people think that only because Bayern is a top 5 european team for nearly a decade now that they can also spend the same amount of money as the oil clubs.
Just take a look:
- Bayern's transfer: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-bayern-munchen/transferrekorde/verein/27
- City's transfers: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city/transferrekorde/verein/281
(your transfers for the record: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/transferrekorde/verein/985)
They bought 10 players that were worth more than our most expensive signing, thats almost a whole team. We really wanted de Bruyne, but we just couldn't afford him.
What is a hanging striker?
Second striker
The correct German term is „Hängende Spitze“, that‘s why he said hanging striker
Cheers, I assumed that it was a calque.Second striker
The correct German term is „Hängende Spitze“, that‘s why he said hanging striker
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