Bayern Munich 2018

[kaiser1]

I'm fairly sure both those players would've picked Bayern over City had Bayern reached into their pockets.

And Bayern does not have that type of pocket to reach into. City bought KdB for about 70M in 2015. As at 2019, Bayerns record is still about 25M shy of that. Same with Sane

The fact that contrary to what you said, Bayern does not have the best pick of Bundesliga players as evidenced by Mhki, kagawa, Sahin, Firmino, Sane, KdB, Gundogan, Dembele, Son

 

[Moriarty]

And Bayern does not have that type of pocket to reach into.

Really? The received wisdom is that Bayern is a very wealthy club but stingy, relying on the name to attract the best German players.

 

[Trizy]

And Bayern does not have that type of pocket to reach into. City bought KdB for about 70M in 2015. As at 2019, Bayerns record is still about 25M shy of that. Same with Sane

The fact that contrary to what you said, Bayern does not have the best pick of Bundesliga players as evidenced by Mhki, kagawa, Sahin, Firmino, Sane, KdB, Gundogan, Dembele, Son

Really? The received wisdom is that Bayern is a very wealthy club but stingy, relying on the name to attract the best German players.

See above reply from @Moriarty .

How can a club who is 4th on the money league with €629.2 (€30m shy of money bags United and €62m more than oil rich City), with a squad of players on low wages and low fees not afford to buy a €70m KDB? It does sound as if they are just stingy.

 

[Kasper]

See above reply from @Moriarty .

How can a club who is 4th on the money league with €629.2 (€30m shy of money bags United and €62m more than oil rich City), with a squad of players on low wages and low fees not afford to buy a €70m KDB? It does sound as if they are just stingy.

It's a combination of things. Bayern could easily afford to just buy a player for 150m. But - and this is the important part - overall they definitely have more limited funds than the likes of City or PSG, so they won't risk to put all their eggs into one basket and go big for one single player. Add to that that their management has a very conservative approach to transfer spending (they keep reminding everyone that spending over 100m is unhealthy etc. and are vocally proud to go the 'more reasonable way') they can be described as stingy. For some this is a sign of a well run club, for others its more a symbol of an aged, out of touch management that is incapable of accepting the new transfer market realities and stick to their policies of the late 00s which led to peak Bayern of 2012-2014.
You can also see this split in the opinions of their supporters, some praise transfers of Gnabry or Arp as sound business that invests in youth, others regard it as misjudgement of quality as a squad built on players like that is good enough to win the regressed Bundesliga but won't get you anywhere in the CL.

 

[do.ob]

Sancho has an amazing run, i'll give you that. We'll see how that keeps up in the long term (if he even stays for "a long term"). Coman doesn't put out as many goals or assists, true, but that doesn't mean he's playing badly. Scored season ratings of better than "3" in the Kickers ranking system in 3 out of 4 Buli seasons so far, and you know how rare that is for a field player. Made more remarkable by his row of injuries.

I'm not saying that Coman is not very talented or that he's playing badly. But I think guys like Sancho, Dembele and Sane are proper difference makers, who can change/decide games with their individual plays and frequently do so. I haven't really been impressed with Coman in that regard and I think this is the kind of category that you need if you want to be a European powerhouse.

Noone is going to replace Ribery/Robben without some sort of decline. Even a younger version of them would be a downgrade compared to their heights (remember that Robben only exploded at Bayern especially in regards to his goal output and Ribery was a player with a lot of promise but could easily have gone the way of someone like Quaresma who was actually our alternative at taht time).
Real has that same problem with CR7 and Barca will have it with Messi (and they still haven't replaced Neymar or his output).
If a season like the current one is our "low point" then I'm okay with that. You can't always be at the very top but even in recent years and this one we still have been very competitive (as the games vs Real or now Liverpool show).
I mean people keep talking about us not being ambitious enough while in reality even clubs like City and PSG can't force their way to the top that easily. You can certainly argue that we could have been more aggressive on the transfer market in the last two years but people were also saying the same between 2011 and 2013 (including selling players or being against certain transfers which would become an important part of our CL winning side).
Then there is also always a certain amount of luck involved. Like I said transfers like Ribery and Robben could have turned out different while someone like Götze never fulfilled his promise and other (young) players are set back by constant injuries (Thiago, Coman, Tolisso).
Sometimes it just takes 2 or 3 players to take a team in a totally different direction and those players don't even need to be "new", a jump in their development can be enough (see Schweinsteiger's transformation over the years or how Müller appeared out of nowhere).

I know it's not realistic to just straight up buy another fully developed Ribery or Robben, for me it was more about apparently implying that Coman and Gnabry is a sufficient first choice pair of wingers.[/QUOTE]

 

[Trizy]

It's a combination of things. Bayern could easily afford to just buy a player for 150m. But - and this is the important part - overall they definitely have more limited funds than the likes of City or PSG, so they won't risk to put all their eggs into one basket and go big for one single player. Add to that that their management has a very conservative approach to transfer spending (they keep reminding everyone that spending over 100m is unhealthy etc. and are vocally proud to go the 'more reasonable way') they can be described as stingy. For some this is a sign of a well run club, for others its more a symbol of an aged, out of touch management that is incapable of accepting the new transfer market realities and stick to their policies of the late 00s which led to peak Bayern of 2012-2014.
You can also see this split in the opinions of their supporters, some praise transfers of Gnabry or Arp as sound business that invests in youth, others regard it as misjudgement of quality as a squad built on players like that is good enough to win the regressed Bundesliga but won't get you anywhere in the CL.

They're too comfortable cheery picking top talents in their own league for peanuts/on frees. If there was another few big money teams in the league they would be forced to accept the transfer market.

Well run, yes. Lack of ambition? Also yes. No all the answers to their questions can be found within Bundesliga.

 

[Kasper]

They're too comfortable cheery picking top talents in their own league for peanuts/on frees. If there was another few big money teams in the league they would be forced to accept the transfer market.

Well run, yes. Lack of ambition? Also yes. No all the answers to their questions can be found within Bundesliga.

I agree that other big money teams would force their hand but I don't think the cherry picking thing is the reason at all. They have consistently bought from abroad as well in the last 10 years, from their great team a couple of seasons ago only Neuer and Lewandowski fall under that category, the rest were either in house talents or bought from abroad (Ribery, Robben, Martinez, Boateng etc.). It's only natural that big teams look for national solutions first, most great teams (Barca, United in the 00s) had a basis of in-league players mixed with a few outside buys.
Their problem is that they have consistently bought below the elite level (which you need to compete for the CL), doesn't matter if cheap from the league or from abroad. Gnabry instead of Sane, Goretzka instead of De Bruyne etc. Not saying they have bought horrible just not good enough to keep the standards of 2012-15, same for their 'international' buys like Sanches or Tolisso.
Also underestimated is how hard they have been hit with sharp declines earlier than expected. Boateng, Hummels or Müller have all fallen off a cliff quality wise in recent years, Neuer has also not been back to his best.

 

[HTG]

See above reply from @Moriarty .

How can a club who is 4th on the money league with €629.2 (€30m shy of money bags United and €62m more than oil rich City), with a squad of players on low wages and low fees not afford to buy a €70m KDB? It does sound as if they are just stingy.

We can. But the board, mainly Hoeneß, refuse to do so. Which is mainly due to arrogance and some sort of false sense of superiority towards other topclubs. It’s difficult to explain to those not that familiar with the club and especially it’s fans, mostly the older ones. They are not that accepting of high fees and Hoeneß likes to be their hero, so we shy away from those fees. It’s ridiculous, really. Especially since we do spend an awful lot of money. We’re just wasting it instead of going for a really good solution. It’s what’s holding us back the most righ now. We could easily have a midfield of Thiago, Kroos and De Bruyne right now, with Lewandowski, Sane and Coman up front. Instead we’re spending our money on a bunch of centre backs we don’t need and pretend to be different from anyone else.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

We can. But the board, mainly Hoeneß, refuse to do so. Which is mainly due to arrogance and some sort of false sense of superiority towards other topclubs. It’s difficult to explain to those not that familiar with the club and especially it’s fans, mostly the older ones. They are not that accepting of high fees and Hoeneß likes to be their hero, so we shy away from those fees. It’s ridiculous, really. Especially since we do spend an awful lot of money. We’re just wasting it instead of going for a really good solution. It’s what’s holding us back the most righ now. We could easily have a midfield of Thiago, Kroos and De Bruyne right now, with Lewandowski, Sane and Coman up front. Instead we’re spending our money on a bunch of centre backs we don’t need and pretend to be different from anyone else.

I think a lot of it is tied to the German Football culture that is against the commercialization, the rising transfer fees and wages of modern Football.

 

[HTG]

I think a lot of it is tied to the German Football culture that is against the commercialization, the rising transfer fees and wages of modern Football.

That’s surely part of it. And it would be ok, if we wouldn’t act so damn hypocritical. On the one hand, we’re criticizing PSG and City whenever we can and on the other we‘re being sponsored by Qatar Airways.

 

[kaiser1]

See above reply from @Moriarty .

How can a club who is 4th on the money league with €629.2 (€30m shy of money bags United and €62m more than oil rich City), with a squad of players on low wages and low fees not afford to buy a €70m KDB? It does sound as if they are just stingy.

German football only allows you to spend what you earn

PSG did not earn the 400M they spent on Mbappe rather a rich Sheikh gave them his wallet, Same with Chelsea and City.

Bayern does not have that luxury. they make a profit of 500M a yr, They cannot spend 400M on fees for 2 players and still pay salaries

We have spent on Douglas Costa, Renato, Gotze who didn't pan out as expected and we don't have any rich owner to write off our bad transfers like the teams you compare us to

We can. But the board, mainly Hoeneß, refuse to do so. Which is mainly due to arrogance and some sort of false sense of superiority towards other topclubs. It’s difficult to explain to those not that familiar with the club and especially it’s fans, mostly the older ones. They are not that accepting of high fees and Hoeneß likes to be their hero, so we shy away from those fees. It’s ridiculous, really. Especially since we do spend an awful lot of money. We’re just wasting it instead of going for a really good solution. It’s what’s holding us back the most righ now. We could easily have a midfield of Thiago, Kroos and De Bruyne right now, with Lewandowski, Sane and Coman up front. Instead we’re spending our money on a bunch of centre backs we don’t need and pretend to be different from anyone else.

Hindsight is always 20/20. For City to get Sane and KdB they wasted a lot of money on the Mangalas, Robinho Mendy Mahrez? who have not delivered

Who are these CBs we don't need? Currently, Boateng Hummels are old and poor. They need to be replaced and we have Sule bought Pavard and chasing Hernandez all under 24 and can serve us for another 6yrs

 

[HTG]

German football only allows you to spend what you earn

PSG did not earn the 400M they spent on Mbappe rather a rich Sheikh gave them his wallet, Same with Chelsea and City.

Bayern does not have that luxury. they make a profit of 500M a yr, They cannot spend 400M on fees for 2 players and still pay salaries

We have spent on Douglas Costa, Renato, Gotze who didn't pan out as expected and we don't have any rich owner to write off our bad transfers like the teams you compare us to



Hindsight is always 20/20. For City to get Sane and KdB they wasted a lot of money on the Mangalas, Robinho Mendy Mahrez? who have not delivered

Who are these CBs we don't need? Currently, Boateng Hummels are old and poor. They need to be replaced and we have Sule bought Pavard and chasing Hernandez all under 24 and can serve us for another 6yrs

It’s not hindsight if you said the exact same thing years ago.
And I don’t care about City‘s Transfer policy, I‘m talking about ours.
And Hummels is one. Nobody needed him here. Nobody needed Benatia. Nobody needs Süle. What we would have needed, was a left footed centre back like Laporte, who I actually preferred to Hummels. It’s been idiotic to buy Hummels, who is the same age as Martinez and Boateng, because it’s obvious that we would have to replace them at roughly the same time.
If we actually thought about what we’re doing, we’d be having a working defense and could spend big on a replacement for Robben. But as we prefer wasting money on players we don’t need, we‘re now on the verge of spending more than a 100 million on two Centre backs and our offense consists solely of Lewandowski, the rest are either too bad, always injured or too old.
It’s the same with central midfielders. We don’t have a backup for Thiago, need one for years and yet, we keep buying guys like Sanches, Vidal, Goretzka or Tolisso, who all fit the same profile (more or less) and steal each other’s playing time. It’s idiotic.
Our squad is in shambles.
Neuer looks terrible right now, due to his injuries. We only have three fullbacks, one of which is not good enough for us (Rafinha) and one shouldn’t even play there (Kimmich). We have Javi, Hummels (I‘m aware that he’s used to the left side) and Boateng and Süle, who are all best as the right centre back and don’t have a single actual LCB.
We have exactly one creative build up player in midfield in Thiago, but all those other guys for one position and of course James, who we never wanted in the first place, who’d rather leave us yesterday.
Our offense is lacking class all over the place. Only Lewandowski is truly great. The rest looks promising, at best. Müller, Robben and Ribéry are a disaster.
Compare that squad with 2013:
Neuer-Alaba-Dante-Boa-Lahm-Schweinsteiger-Javi-Müller-Ribéry-Robben-Mandzukic. We had Robben on the bench for many games actually. Ever since, you could make the case, that we haven’t improved on a single position since then, but have been getting worse at most.
Our transfer policy is a disaster.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

They should close again their new Academy training ground.

They have Lars-Lukas Mai as amazing CB prospect......but okay 120m for Pavard and Hernandez is better

They bought Davies and want Hudson-Odoi......hopefully Batista-Meier goes in the summer.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

They should close again their new Academy training ground.

They have Lars-Lukas Mai as amazing CB prospect......but okay 120m for Pavard and Hernandez is better

They bought Davies and want Hudson-Odoi......hopefully Batista-Meier goes in the summer.

I understand why they are interested in Pavard and Hernandez but, have no idea why they want both. And it will probably be difficult to unload Hummels and Boateng. They will probably send Mai and Batista-Meier on loan for a season or two. And I thin Dortmund or RBL will win the title next season if next season their wing options are Coman, Gnarby Davies and Hudson-Odoi.

 

[kaiser1]

I understand why they are interested in Pavard and Hernandez but, have no idea why they want both. And it will probably be difficult to unload Hummels and Boateng. They will probably send Mai and Batista-Meier on loan for a season or two. And I thin Dortmund or RBL will win the title next season if next season their wing options are Coman, Gnarby Davies and Hudson-Odoi.

Pavard can cover Right Back and Hernandez cover Left Back. Boateng and Hummels are going to be sold at least 1 of them will leave and the other will follow soon

 

[Synco]

Pavard can cover Right Back and Hernandez cover Left Back. Boateng and Hummels are going to be sold at least 1 of them will leave and the other will follow soon

Hm, do Bayern actually plan to replace Bernat (with one year delay) and Rafinha with center back types of fullbacks? Or would you rather expect them to be the third fullback options, with someone else coming whose profile is closer to their first team players?

From what I've seen, Bayern have increasingly moved towards a more generic style after 2016, but that would still be a pretty drastic change.

 

[kaiser1]

Hm, do Bayern actually plan to replace Bernat (with one year delay) and Rafinha with center back types of fullbacks? Or would you rather expect them to be the third fullback options, with someone else coming whose profile is closer to their first team players?

From what I've seen, Bayern have increasingly moved towards a more generic style after 2016, but that would still be a pretty drastic change.

Kimmich and Alaba are the main full back starters with Pavard and Hernandez backing them up.

I think surely Boateng leaves, Hummels stays for a year if he accepts a reduced role but we wont stay in his way if he wants to leave. Starting CBs will be Sule and Hernandez with Pavard being their rotation

This season Rafinha is the only cover for both RB and LB

 

[Jib]

Coman is injury prone. But for me, he's as good as Sancho or Sané when he's fully fit.

 

[Synco]

Kimmich and Alaba are the main full back starters with Pavard and Hernandez backing them up.

My question was about the backup spots, not sure if that came across as intended. But the answer is there, thanks. Surprises me, that's not an ideal backup solution in my eyes.

 

[kaiser1]

My question was about the backup spots, not sure if that came across as intended. But the answer is there, thanks. Surprises me, that's not an ideal backup solution in my eyes.

You will not get a decent player willing to sit on the bench the entire year as a backup especially in defense where teams don't rotate much unless there is a long term injury(Shaw, Mendy). Its either you get a garbage tier player for backup(e.g Zapacosta, Palmieri) or a player who will switch positions to cover when needed(Danilo, Delph)

Coman is injury prone. But for me, he's as good as Sancho or Sané when he's fully fit.

I don't think Coman is at their level, He can dribble and run at elite level but his decision making is poor. he does not "Look up" to pick his passes most times he dribbles and just fires his ball into the box hoping to hit someone. Last season Juup was working on him to take a second to look and pick his pass but this season it seems all that is gone

 

[my mum]

That’s surely part of it. And it would be ok, if we wouldn’t act so damn hypocritical. On the one hand, we’re criticizing PSG and City whenever we can and on the other we‘re being sponsored by Qatar Airways.

What a short sighted way of looking at things. Qatar airways is a legit business and one of the few good things going on for that country. It doesn't "enslave", starve or kill anyone, compared to the government fundations qatar and abu dhabi use to fund and run clubs like City or PSG.

On the other hand there's also the fact that a sponsorship is a fair exchange of values for both parts whereas City and PSG just get pumped with unearned and undeserved funds. Of course Bayern's operations are way more ethical than anything that's going on at the emirates teams.

 

[Synco]

You will not get a decent player willing to sit on the bench the entire year as a backup especially in defense where teams don't rotate much unless there is a long term injury(Shaw, Mendy). Its either you get a garbage tier player for backup(e.g Zapacosta, Palmieri) or a player who will switch positions to cover when needed(Danilo, Delph)

I agree it's far from easy to find a good solution. But I also wouldn't say it's impossible to give backups playing time, especially at RB, where Kimmich can regularly make room by moving into CM. So I'd say a like-for-like replacement for Rafinha wouldn't be an unsolvable problem.

Also, not long ago Bayern had Lahm/Kimmich, Alaba, Bernat, and Rafinha on their books for four seasons straight. Granted, availability of backups like that is not a given. But it probably also depends on true fullbacks being a tactical priority, and the will to moderately overpay a decent player as a result.

 

[JSArsenal]

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...jury-cured-hertha-berlin-niko-kovac-sennewald

Arjen Robben is already three months plagued by a nasty thigh injury that won’t go away. After a sprint in Säbener Straße a week ago, the problems recurred and his third comeback attempt failed. But thankfully, it seems that there is finally some clarity over his situation.

As per Bild, an infection caused by two rotten teeth were the reason for the problems throughout the body! Last Wednesday, the two teeth were removed.

Is this true? The hardest part for me to believe was that a grown man didn't know he had two rotten teeth. Wouldn't he have been in constant pain because of them?

 

[mediocentr0]

I think it would be pretty poor planing to buy a new boss (Hernandez) for your back line and see him as a replacement for Alaba too. You don´t want your boss to play as a replacement for a nother player, even he could play that position. So i would want to have a "new Bernat" either way. Pavard can have a double role, but not a 80+ Mio. defender. Alaba/LB-----Hernandez/Hummels--------Süle/Pavard--------Kimmich/(Pavard)

 

[Handré1990]

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...jury-cured-hertha-berlin-niko-kovac-sennewald



Is this true? The hardest part for me to believe was that a grown man didn't know he had two rotten teeth. Wouldn't he have been in constant pain because of them?

Would’ve been some time ago. The nerve endings die before the teeth can rot, I suppose.

 

[strongwalker]

Sidenote: U17-Player Joshua Zirkzee (NL) debuted this weekend in the starting U23 squad. He scored 3 within 20 minutes.

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[Keeps It tidy]

With Zirkze do than really need Jann-Fiete Arp?

 

[Adisa]

They will win the league. Dortmund have blown it.
Their record since that bizarre conference has been very good.

 

[strongwalker]

With Zirkze do than really need Jann-Fiete Arp?

Arp has a full Bundesliga season (more or less) under his belt. Zirkzee has 110 minutes U23 experience in the 4th league. He's a huge talent, but Arp is a step or two ahead of him, at the moment.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Arp has a full Bundesliga season (more or less) under his belt. Zirkzee has 110 minutes U23 experience in the 4th league. He's a huge talent, but Arp is a step or two ahead of him, at the moment.

Neither are ready to contribute much to a side like Bayern. Why go after another striker who needs a lot of development when he might not be better than what you have in your academy?

 

[Spiersey]

Arps a better talent than Zirkzee imo. Zirkzee I’m not convinced will make it at the top level, he’s always been massive for his age. Remember watching him at the Cee Cup when he was on trial at Everton and he wasn’t overly impressive. Has been good in the Youth League this season though. Be interesting to see how he gets on over the next year or two.

 

[FootballHQ]

Arp has a full Bundesliga season (more or less) under his belt. Zirkzee has 110 minutes U23 experience in the 4th league. He's a huge talent, but Arp is a step or two ahead of him, at the moment.

Pretty sure Arp hasn't scored a goal yet in 2nd Bundesliga and is very much back up to likes of Lassoga.

Surely the Canadian guy Bayern signed would be ahead of him?

 

[MuranoLover]

Which conference

They will win the league. Dortmund have blown it.
Their record since that bizarre conference has been very good.

 

[strongwalker]

Pretty sure Arp hasn't scored a goal yet in 2nd Bundesliga and is very much back up to likes of Lassoga.

Surely the Canadian guy Bayern signed would be ahead of him?

The canadian guy is a winger... but we did have Julian Green, for example. Currently playing 2nd league w/2 goals in 20 matches. It simply isn't possible to tell how even very highly rated talents will develop.

 

[Adisa]

Which conference

The one where KHR and Uli Hoeness went on their rant.

 

[Ramshock]

Will they handle Liverpool in the 2nd leg?

 

[FootballHQ]

The canadian guy is a winger... but we did have Julian Green, for example. Currently playing 2nd league w/2 goals in 20 matches. It simply isn't possible to tell how even very highly rated talents will develop.

Julian Green ironically just been sent off....against Hamburg.

Arp not in the 18. Wasn't Ito also highly rated when they were in the Bundesliga?

 

[GhastlyHun]

Which conference

The most cringeworthy press conference they ever did. Citing the first article of the German Grundgesetz (constitution) "Human dignity is inviolable"... because they didn't like what had been written about Bayern players in the previous weeks. (ugh, remembering all this is almost as bad as hearing it in the first place)

 

[deef]

The most cringeworthy press conference they ever did. Citing the first article of the German Grundgesetz (constitution) "Human dignity is inviolable"... because they didn't like what had been written about Bayern players in the previous weeks. (ugh, remembering all this is almost as bad as hearing it in the first place)

And then go on and insult Bernat and Özil

 

[roonster09]

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