Erm, and if they win 5-4 at Bernabeu conceding a goal at OT will have a different effect?
Beating Madrid
- Thread starter Solius
- Start date
They'd have to score 4 or 5 to draw or win the tie? How likely is that to happen in both legs?
I think (hope) they mean psychologically! There's no doubt with a 0-0 everyone feels like we're desperately defending something in the home leg. With a 2-1 there's more of a, "all we have to do is win at home," mood. It's not rational but not much about being a football fan is.
Why? If they scored and were 1-0 up after a 5-4 win at home, we'd have to score 2 to go through. With 0-0 in first leg we'd also have to score 2 to go through if they went 1-0 up. Why would they need to score 4 or 5 at OT, I don't get it?
So basically everyone is coming up with a hypothetical situation to prove their score is the way forward?
Will we be able to get the ball to our front players, though? I can see them pressuring very high and our midfield/defence just hoofing it long every time they do.
But there's no need to come up with any situations here. A draw is always better than a loss, there's nothing to argue here. The difference between 5-4 and 0-0 is that with former we go out if we draw 0-0 at home and in case of the latter it'd send the game into the extra-time. And any 1-goal win above 5-4 sends us out if we lose 5-4 at Bernabeu while in case of 0-0 any win at OT and we're through.
A 5-4 has no advantage whatsoever over 0-0 draw. There's no result that would send us through at OT if we lost 5-4 there and wouldn't if we drew 0-0. Not even a single one.
By golly you're right! And here was me thinking that we'd be 8-5 up if we lost 5-4. I'd always thought an away goal equaled two goals despite watching the champions league for over a decade, can you help me with how offside works next?
Away goals are key, if we were to draw 0-0 and madrid nicked an early goal at OT we'd be under serious pressure.
I might look awfully silly on Wednesday, but I'll stick my neck out and say the Bernabeu game will not finish 5-4.
What nonsense. We'd have to score twice even if the first leg finished 5-4.
And if we lost 5-4 we wouldn't? Care to explain how our position would be more comfortable with 1-0 deficit at OT if we lost 5-4 in Madrid rather than drew 0-0?
No we wouldn't.
Rooneys scored against all the other elites .... so, kind of fully expect him to score. Pretty sure he's scored in all their stadiums too except Nou Camp(neutral venue in the CL final isn't too shabby though.)
Didn't he score at Stamford Bridge and Emirates too in the CL? Yeah, you can get 3 to 1 odds on him anytime on Wednesday, might put on a tenner on that.
Didn't he score at Stamford Bridge and Emirates too in the CL? Yeah, you can get 3 to 1 odds on him anytime on Wednesday, might put on a tenner on that.
Indeed. He sounds like we'd be cruising if we went down at OT if only we managed to lose at Bernabeu.
How people manage to come up with bollocks that it's better to lose than draw is fecking ridiculous.
If the first leg finishes 5-4 and Madrid score first we'd have to score twice to progress. If the first leg finishes 0-0 and Madrid score first we'd still have to score twice to progress.
What part of that do you not understand?
Oh okay so now you've decided Madrid have scored first. Did it say that in the post?
And let's not discount the boost in confidence if we do manage to get a result in Madrid. How anyone would rather see us lose than draw is beyond me...
Okay this is getting ridiculous (mainly because I'm on iphone and I keep missing quotes)
If it finished 5-4, some fans clearly feel it'll spur us on as away goals have in the past.
If it finished 0-0 some of you feel it's positive and will have no bearing on anything.
Agree to disagree because as I said earlier, all we're doing is creating our own hypothetical situation. 5-4 is as likely as us winning 7-0 today. Won't happen.
I'll catch you guys later now, time to head to OT.
If it finished 5-4, some fans clearly feel it'll spur us on as away goals have in the past.
If it finished 0-0 some of you feel it's positive and will have no bearing on anything.
Agree to disagree because as I said earlier, all we're doing is creating our own hypothetical situation. 5-4 is as likely as us winning 7-0 today. Won't happen.
I'll catch you guys later now, time to head to OT.
A draw, even 0-0, means any win at Old Trafford puts us through. Even though we've had some heartache in the past, I can't see how that's a bad thing. It's a great position. Risky? Yeah, but so is being a goal down...
Ramos talking to Sid Lowe about Spain, Pique, Real Madrid and United.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/10/sergio-ramos-manchester-united
The main United segment:
On Wednesday night, that means a battle with Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie. "Van Persie is on very, very good form," Ramos says. "We hadn't seen him this good for years. He's quick, strikes the ball well, he's a constant nuisance.
"Rooney's different. He's hard-work, heavy going. He enjoys the physical challenge. I prefer that, to be honest. I like that defender versus striker battle, that challenge. But Rooney's mobility is difficult: you don't always know how far to step out to pressure him. He drops deeper, or pulls wide and you wonder whether to follow. The communication with the midfield is vital. If he drops, there's a point at which the centre-back can't follow him and the responsibility passes to the midfielders. Go too far and you leave space behind.
"But it's not just them, it's the whole team. You've got Chicharito who comes on for half an hour and scores two or three every time. And it's no coincidence.
"I was pleased to get United. They are in the Premier League what Madrid are in Spain perhaps: the values, the history. What they have always represented, the philosophy they transmit, the ideals they inculcated their players with, are similar.
"Few games have the repercussion of this match. And I'd rather play them than a team that's not as big but comes along and surprises you. Besides, I like English football."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/10/sergio-ramos-manchester-united
The main United segment:
On Wednesday night, that means a battle with Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie. "Van Persie is on very, very good form," Ramos says. "We hadn't seen him this good for years. He's quick, strikes the ball well, he's a constant nuisance.
"Rooney's different. He's hard-work, heavy going. He enjoys the physical challenge. I prefer that, to be honest. I like that defender versus striker battle, that challenge. But Rooney's mobility is difficult: you don't always know how far to step out to pressure him. He drops deeper, or pulls wide and you wonder whether to follow. The communication with the midfield is vital. If he drops, there's a point at which the centre-back can't follow him and the responsibility passes to the midfielders. Go too far and you leave space behind.
"But it's not just them, it's the whole team. You've got Chicharito who comes on for half an hour and scores two or three every time. And it's no coincidence.
"I was pleased to get United. They are in the Premier League what Madrid are in Spain perhaps: the values, the history. What they have always represented, the philosophy they transmit, the ideals they inculcated their players with, are similar.
"Few games have the repercussion of this match. And I'd rather play them than a team that's not as big but comes along and surprises you. Besides, I like English football."
Remarkable lack of cnutishness there.
Why ?
HellHunter in the newbies sent me this pm:
With away goals it offers security in the evident of a draw, anyone who discounts them is an idiot and clearly hasnt watched the champions league.
Bizarre.
Every fecking year. Ignoring psychological effects (that's all speculation), any sort of draw away from home is better than a loss. A 5-4 loss doesn't offer even the slightest advantage over a 0-0 draw. Any score draw at home would see you out in either scenario, but with a 0-0 away at least a 0-0 at home gives you Extra Time, while you'd go out after a 5-4 away loss in that scenario. With a 0-0 away from home, any home win sees you through to the next round. The same is almost true for a 5-4 loss, except that a 5-4 home win goes through ET in stead of a straight win. 6-5, 7-6, etc. wins means you're out. It's all very theoretical obviously, but there's just no configuration where a 5-4 away loss gives you better options in the return leg. Those are the facts.
I agree with Ainu, how anyone can prefer a loss over a scoreless draw is beyond me.
How about this one; would you prefer a 1-0 win in the first leg, or an 8-8 draw?
1-0. I'd prefer a scoring draw over a 5-4 but not a 0-0.
This is stupid. In case of a 0-0 draw any sort of win at Old Trafford puts us through which is not the case is case of a 5-4 defeat. There is no psychological advantage whatsoever is losing away over getting a draw.
You go out if you draw after losing away every single time you tool, it offers no security.
With us playing a strong team tonight, I wonder what is in store come midweek.
I'd take the 8-8, seeing that away goals count as double.
Not this shit again.
Draw on aggregate you fecking tool.
Even you should be able to see that drawing on aggregate requires less goals in the return leg if you draw the first leg 0-0 instead of losing 5-4. Of course in the event of a 5-5 aggregate draw it's better to lose 5-4 and win 1-0 than draw 0-0 and 5-5, but that's not the point being discussed here.Draw on aggregate you fecking tool.
Point is Sarni is such a patronising poster, thinks he knows it all. First hes thinks that I presume that away goals count for 2 and then that I think that if you're losing on aggregate that you're actually winning. The guy thinks he knows it all.
Would you rather score more away goals than Madrid but go out, or progress to the quarter finals?
Thats a pretty stupid question, obviously I'd prefer us to go through regardless of the make up of the scoreline.