Beating Madrid

[Sarni]

Draw on aggregate you fecking tool.

Yeah, cause it's easier to get a draw when you lose away from home.

There's not a single scoreline we could achieve at home that sends us through in case of a 5-4 loss and doesn't in case of a 0-0 draw. What do you not grasp?

 

[Hitchcocker]

A 0-0 is potentially just as bad as a one goal loss with us scoring. How horrible was it in the Barca tie in 08?

If they'd taken a chance at OT, we were gone. Such fine lines without an away goal. And surely most feel confident in our ability to win games at home.

Either way, I think most agree a single goal loss wouldn't be disastrous, rather than preferring to lose.

You could argue potentially as bad but it is not the same. Let us say you lose 1-2 to Madrid at Madrid, you are thinking we've got an away goal, it's fine and dandy as long as we win at Old Trafford but that isn't the case.

First leg: Madrid 2: United 1

We have to beat Madrid 1-0 in order to qualify and if Madrid score 1, we have to score 2 to even the scoreline to extra time. But suppose if Madrid score 2 at Old Trafford, we cannot settle for 3 goals, we will have to score 4!

Ludicrous if anyone thinks an away defeat by one goal is preferable to a draw. A defeat in the first leg ensures we have to win and depending on the number of away goals, we have to either win by one or perhaps two goals.

A 0-0 on the other hand, we can afford to draw or at most, win by a solitary goal.

 

[Sarni]

Point is Sarni is such a patronising poster, thinks he knows it all. First hes thinks that I presume that away goals count for 2 and then that I think that if you're losing on aggregate that you're actually winning. The guy thinks he knows it all.

Not my fault that you don't have any sort of logic and would rather be chasing from the back after a loss than starting a return leg from a 0-0 point, and seem to think we'd be fecked if we went down after a 0-0 draw but not after a 5-4 loss even though it's virtually the same position then with us needing 2 goals.

 

[Rowem]

Would you rather score more away goals than Madrid but go out, or progress to the quarter finals?

I'd much rather score more away goals! Some things are more important than merely winning games. Imagine a Rooney hat-trick at the Bernabeu and then Ronaldo knocking us out at Old Trafford! Beautiful!

 

[Keltoi]

Not my fault that you don't have any sort of logic and would rather be chasing from the back after a loss than starting a return leg from a 0-0 point, and seem to think we'd be fecked if we went down after a 0-0 draw but not after a 5-4 loss even though it's virtually the same position then with us needing 2 goals.

No its just you acting like a twat, of course I've my logic you just dont seem to agree with me so you've taken to acting the fecking twat, throwing around insults and patronizing me. Grow up.

 

[Sarni]

No its just you acting like a twat, of course I've my logic you just dont seem to agree with me so you've taken to acting the fecking twat, throwing around insults and patronizing me. Grow up.

Your logic sounds crap though. Give me a single scenario in which it's better to lose 5-4 away from home than draw 0-0 and I may agree with you. There isn't one though which basically proves that 0-0 is a better result.

You were the one who said that anyone who doesn't see your point as valid is an idiot first.

 

[Hitchcocker]

With away goals it offers security in the evident of a draw, anyone who discounts them is an idiot and clearly hasnt watched the champions league.

Bizarre.

No its just you acting like a twat, of course I've my logic you just dont seem to agree with me so you've taken to acting the fecking twat, throwing around insults and patronizing me. Grow up.

So an away goal defeat would be preferable because it offers security in an aggregate draw in the second leg (which by the way, isn't always the case!) as opposed to a draw in the first leg. Interesting indeed.

 

[Sarni]

So an away goal defeat would be preferable because it offers security in an aggregate draw in the second leg (which by the way, isn't always the case!) as opposed to a draw in the first leg. Interesting indeed.

Yeah. To get an aggregate draw if you lose away from home you need to win at home, which is also going to send you through every single time if you draw the first game anyway. I don't get the difficulty in understanding that.

 

[Hitchcocker]

Yeah. To get an aggregate draw if you lose away from home you need to win at home, which is also going to send you through every single time if you draw the first game anyway. I don't get the difficulty in understanding that.

And in a scenario where you 'win' the second leg in 90 minutes to reverse the scoreline to reach an aggregate draw, you still have to get through extra time and penalties where as if you win by any margin in the second leg, you qualify. Silly opinion really.

To break it down simply:

If first leg: Madrid 2 United 1

Second leg scenario:

Madrid score 0, we have to score 1 to qualify
Madrid score 1, we have to score 2 to reach extra time
Madrid score 2, we have to score 4 to qualify

If first leg Madrid 0-0 United

Madrid score 0, we have to score 0 to reach extra time or 1 to qualify
Madrid score 1, we have to score 2 to win
Madrid score 2, we have to score 3 to win

So how is any defeat (even with away goals) better than a 0-0?

 

[Sarni]

Indeed. It's not even arguable, the result that requires you to do less in the return leg to qualify is a better one, it's not really a matter of opinion.

 

[Woodzy]

Haven't been this excited for a Champions League game for a while (barring the Barca final of course). I think it's a combination of being such an attractive fixture against a team we haven't played for so long, having such a long period of no European football leading up to it, having such a comfortable lead in the league, not making the knockout stages last year and of course the Ronaldo factor! Bring these cnuts on.

 

[adexkola]

But once extra time occurs, away goals are 1.5, to compensate for the fact that the away team has 30 extra minutes.

 

[Tomuś]

This 'better to lose by one goal (while scoring) than draw 0-0' myth has been circulating here for a few years now. Where does it come from? Pure idiocy and inability to calculate.

 

[Sarni]

Indeed, I've not been this excited about a CL tie since Barcelona 07-08. Playing against one of the best sides in the world is the essence of Champions League.

 

[adexkola]

This 'better to lose by one goal (while scoring) than draw 0-0' myth has been circulating here for a few years now. Where does it come from? Pure idiocy and inability to calculate.

What are you talking about?

 

[Tomuś]

What are you talking about?

I take it you didn't spend much time here before any of our knock-out UCL clashes these last few years

 

[Vato]

He's taking the piss, Tomus.

 

[Tomuś]

honestly didn't catch it, fair enough

 

[adexkola]

Damn you Vato

 

[Vato]

Damn you Vato

I laughed with your last few posts, if it's any consolation.

 

[Plechazunga]

Drawing is better than losing, gimps, even in Europe

 

[Sonny1972]

Who was the last big team we beat in the CL ??

 

[NinjaFletch]

Who was the last big team we beat in the CL ??

Chelsea or Barca.

 

[MUFCgal]

So excited, but I know my nerves will be rammed up to 100 on Wednesday.

 

[Sonny1972]

Chelsea or Barca.

Chelsea in 2008 and Barca in a friendly ......

 

[jamesblonde]

After today and Tottenham, it's clear that if Jone's injury clears up, he's going to do a man-marking job on Ronaldo.

 

[Tibs]

2-1 win in Madrid

4-2 win at home

 

[Dante]

After today and Tottenham, it's clear that if Jone's injury clears up, he's going to do a man-marking job on Ronaldo.

More likely Ozil. Then our fullbacks will come in quite narrow to block runs through the channels, while Valencia plus whoever's on the left track their fullbacks.

That's the way I see it, at any rate.

 

[jamesblonde]

More likely Ozil. Then our fullbacks will come in quite narrow to block runs through the channels, while Valencia plus whoever's on the left track their fullbacks.

That's the way I see it, at any rate.

Maybe. He'd also need somebody on Alonso with that thinking. And what about Ronaldo.....

Actually, tactically, it's quite novel. Managers haven't done man-marking since the early 90s, so it would be a first for Fergie to be a tactical trailblazer...

 

[Tomuś]

Maybe. He'd also need somebody on Alonso with that thinking. And what about Ronaldo.....

Actually, tactically, it's quite novel. Managers haven't done man-marking since the early 90s, so it would be a first for Fergie to be a tactical trailblazer...

They have, ironically enough, one of them is Mourinho.

Alonso will be harassed by Rooney I think.

 

[jojojo]

So, news from the gossip columns.
Alonso was back jogging today, but didn't train with the group - he is still reckoned to be a doubt.
Varane on the other hand was back in normal training.

Ronaldo and Modric stayed in the gym for physio. Don't get your hopes up on that though. He is carrying an injury, but he has been for a couple of weeks, so I doubt anything has changed.

 

[rio's upper lip]

Ronaldo wouldn't miss this tie even if he had to amputate a leg. He'll play.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Anyone think we will play a midfield 3 of Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa?

Maybe Rooney on the left, Van Persie up front?

 

[Saq]

Anyone think we will play a midfield 3 of Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa?

Maybe Rooney on the left, Van Persie up front?

i was about to post that

 

[redevil2]

Anyone think we will play a midfield 3 of Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa?

Maybe Rooney on the left, Van Persie up front?

One very good thing about today's game v Everton is that we didn't give much away for Mourinho to take home. First he wouldn't have a clue who will start on wed second we played well today it will surely intimidate him? Here's hoping!

 

[redevil2]

Ronaldo wouldn't miss this tie even if he had to amputate a leg. He'll play.

Agree totally. That's why the game will be so interesting to watch. What a
bout Nani?

 

[jamesblonde]

Agree totally. That's why the game will be so interesting to watch. What a
bout Nani?

Would love to see Nani start, with Valencia on the bench.
However, don't see it happening.
My guess at a line-up now is (assuming Jone's injury has cleared up):

De Ghea
Rafael - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
Carrick
Valencia - Jones - Cleverly - Rooney
Van Persie

Lots of running for Valencia and Rooney.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Bit of Post Everton drunkness going on in here?

Regarding Keltois post ( which made me laugh)

To Keltoi, and others who agreed that they would rather lose 5-4 then draw 0-0 there is no aggregate in which losing 5-4 or 10-9 or any scoreline by one goal is better than a 0-0 draw or any draw of any kind, you are being misled by the away goals rule. Its of course useful to lose 5-4 if you then go and win 4-3 in the second leg but you would still go through if you won 4-3 with a 0-0 draw in the first leg.

drawing 0-0 gives you the added possibility you can draw 0-0 at home and win on penalties, whereas if you lose 5-4 then draw 0-0 at home you are out.

Its simples.

 

[Top]

No one actually believes a loss would be better than a draw. It's a running -unfunny- joke on here.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

No one actually believes a loss would be better than a draw. It's a running -unfunny- joke on here.

Keltoi is a master at deception then, genuinely seemed like he thought a 5-4 loss was better than a 0-0 draw away.