Television Better Call Saul | Includes Breaking Bad Spoilers

[VanDeBank]

It's probably somewhere in the middle to be fair, of course there are other shows and iconic shows. But Breaking Bad brought on a big growth for serial dramas, and the amount "what should I watch next?" - there was a fair whack that hadn't actually watched Sopranos, The Wire, West Wing, X-Files, you know, stuff from a previous generation. Check recommendation threads on this very forum forget endless other options elsewhere and from a personal point of view.

I don't see their being recency bias in what I'm saying, Breaking Bad, at the absolute worse, can't be debated that in it's final 8 or so episode run was the most discussed series in the world. When the Sopranos was running it's final run, it wasn't, not even in America alone. This isn't the sleight on the Sopranos you seem to think it is, it's the greatest show ever, and one of, if not the most influencial.

"Stuff from a previous generation". You literally mentioned shows that were still airing after BB launched.

I get that BB is your favorite show, but it's not the biggest landmark in television history you're making it out to be.

I don't really care that The Beatles are more significant to music history than Ronnie James Dio. I can enjoy the latter just fine without having to pretend he's more influential.

 

[Spoony]

So what now for the BB universe?

 

[RacingClub]

So what now for the BB universe?

I'd like to see some animated shorts that explain some of the back stories like Gus Youth/Life in Chile/Rise to Prominence and Walts Exit from Grey Matter.

Apart from that I don't really have much of an appetite for more content.

 

[The Corinthian]

So what now for the BB universe?

I think this is it. I'm usually one of those people that hates when execs want to expand on a universe (as it's usually poorly thought out and is just a money making scheme re: Matrix, Jurassic World etc). The BB universe is an exception to this rule.

If they were to go anywhere in this universe, I'd really want to see something like 'The Rise of the Salamancas' - with a show showing Hector from adolescence into old age, and bringing in Tuco, Lalo and the twins (but obviously in their younger years). You could also incorporate how they fall under Don Eladio and what not. I personally think anything with Gus, or Mike in would be a bit redundant as we've already covered so much with them.

They could also go with Jesse in Alaska, but I think there's enough closure with his story now. The only other thing I can think of is Kim doing Legal Aid in Florida...and she eventually gets the itch and slowly becomes a newer, better version of Saul. But how different would this really be to Jimmy/Saul's storyline?

The other idea is having a series focusing on the hoover man who gives people new identities and see what scrapes, problems he gets into. Only problem is the actor that played him died in 2019.

 

[VanDeBank]

I think this is it. I'm usually one of those people that hates when execs want to expand on a universe (as it's usually poorly thought out and is just a money making scheme re: Matrix, Jurassic World etc). The BB universe is an exception to this rule.

If they were to go anywhere in this universe, I'd really want to see something like 'The Rise of the Salamancas' - with a show showing Hector from adolescence into old age, and bringing in Tuco, Lalo and the twins (but obviously in their younger years). You could also incorporate how they fall under Don Eladio and what not. I personally think anything with Gus, or Mike in would be a bit redundant as we've already covered so much with them.

They could also go with Jesse in Alaska, but I think there's enough closure with his story now. The only other thing I can think of is Kim doing Legal Aid in Florida...and she eventually gets the itch and slowly becomes a newer, better version of Saul. But how different would this really be to Jimmy/Saul's storyline?

The other idea is having a series focusing on the hoover man who gives people new identities and see what scrapes, problems he gets into. Only problem is the actor that played him died in 2019.

I too thought about Hoover man reading that question, however, I think maintaining some elements of mystery in the universe is fun.

 

[The Corinthian]

I too thought about Hoover man reading that question, however, I think maintaining some elements of mystery in the universe is fun.

Agree - I was even thinking about this with the BCS. Would it have been better for him to go off under a new identity and that be it rather than seeing what transpired as Gene?

 

[Spoony]

Yeah Rise of the Salamancas would be great with perhaps a lot of focus on Lalo. But yeah it's probably best they ended it. Anyway best character? Probably Nacho although Lalo was the most fun. As for comparisons with BB. I love BB, I think BCS has richer more complex characters, and it's more slower paced. BB is a fun exhilarating rollcoaster ride and probably more iconic . BCS is my favourite but you have to watch BB first. Love them both but BCS edges it for me.

 

[Mockney]

Hipster twat

 

[Spoony]

Hipster twat

Apparently so. Your favourite, Mockers?

 

[decorativeed]

Sorry, but this is just recency bias. By this logic, Star Wars really wasn't that big of a thing compared to say ... Avengers, because "social media" and "Netflix".

Anyway, discussing popularity is missing my point. I just felt the this statement was way off the mark:

"I can only assume it was a lot of peoples first introduction to serials after years of watching procedural cop shows where they catch a serial killer every week."

You'd have to subtract every BB viewer that had watched The Sopranos or The Wire (and then some, probably).

BB did not introduce more interesting television. We did not go from Smallville to Breaking Bad.

I don't think it's recency bias, but it could be location bias. For example, I don't recall the Sopranos or the Wire being particularly accessible in the UK. I seem to recall that if you wanted to watch those shows around the time they were airing and the next 5-10 years after, you'd have to buy a DVD box set (usually selling at around £30 per season, I seem to recall from my time working in HMV). Even now, I don't think either of them are on the main streaming platforms like Netflix here. If BB is more popular, or 'bigger' or whatever, it'll be in no small part because it is easily available without most people having to seek it out or spend extra to watch it.

 

[Mockney]

Apparently so. Your favourite, Mockers?

I have made my feelings known on page 49

 

[Spoony]

I wonder what @esmufc07 thinks. He's usually always wrong but....

 

[The Corinthian]

Yeah Rise of the Salamancas would be great with perhaps a lot of focus on Lalo. But yeah it's probably best they ended it. Anyway best character? Probably Nacho although Lalo was the most fun. As for comparisons with BB. I love BB, I think BCS has richer more complex characters, and it's more slower paced. BB is a fun exhilarating rollcoaster ride and probably more iconic . BCS is my favourite but you have to watch BB first. Love them both but BCS edges it for me.

Yea Nacho, Lalo were definitely stand outs.

I was a big fan of Kim as well - it might be because they're totally new characters which is why they had more of an impact than say, Gus, Mike or Hector.

 

[Spoony]

Yea Nacho, Lalo were definitely stand outs.

I was a big fan of Kim as well - it might be because they're totally new characters which is why they had more of an impact then say, Gus, Mike or Hector.

Kim's great. I thought the ending reminded me of Raskinlikov and Sonia from Crime and Punishment fame - The whole redemption atonement thing. But yeah she was great, how sad was it seeing such a strong character playing along with Florida mums?!

 

[Zebs]

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[Zen]

"Stuff from a previous generation". You literally mentioned shows that were still airing after BB launched.

I get that BB is your favorite show, but it's not the biggest landmark in television history you're making it out to be.

I don't really care that The Beatles are more significant to music history than Ronnie James Dio. I can enjoy the latter just fine without having to pretend he's more influential.

Yeah.... not even close. I literally tell you it in the quote, therefore confirming you don't actually read, no wonder you miss points relentlessly

 

[VanDeBank]

Yeah.... not even close. I literally tell you it in the quote, therefore confirming you don't actually read, no wonder you miss points relentlessly

All I did was point out you mistakenly referred to shows contemporary to BB as "from a previous generation". You're taking this very personally.

 

[Zen]

All I did was point out you mistakenly referred to shows contemporary to BB as "from a previous generation". You're taking this very personally.

What was the context of me bringing said shows up? You’re the one actually taking the fact the Sopranos (which we seemingly? is the greatest show) wasn’t actually as big as you think, absurdly personally.

I only brought up shows that at some point aired at the same time as BB - 24 and LOST - to back that up as they were bigger at the time of Sopranos ending… nothing to do with initial remark of a previous generation.

You’d get this if you read. But you know, cool.

 

[horsechoker]

So what now for the BB universe?

I hope that's the end and Vince Gillian gives us something new.

There isn't much more to be told from the BB universe and is it even worth it?

 

[VanDeBank]

What was the context of me bringing said shows up? You’re the one actually taking the fact the Sopranos (which we seemingly? is the greatest show) wasn’t actually as big as you think, absurdly personally.

I only brought up shows that at some point aired at the same time as BB - 24 and LOST - to back that up as they were bigger at the time of Sopranos ending… nothing to do with initial remark of a previous generation.

You’d get this if you read. But you know, cool.

No, the Wire is the goat show, but that aside

For the 2nd time, my point was never about which show is the biggest. My point is BB isn't the game changer you've made it out to be, which you've been arguing for by downplaying sopranos popularity and thus impact.

For someone that keeps accusing other people of not reading their posts, you sure seem to skim over a lot yourself:

Anyway, discussing popularity is missing my point. I just felt the this statement was way off the mark:

"I can only assume it was a lot of peoples first introduction to serials after years of watching procedural cop shows where they catch a serial killer every week."

You'd have to subtract every BB viewer that had watched The Sopranos or The Wire (and then some, probably).

BB did not introduce more interesting television. We did not go from Smallville to Breaking Bad.

Your argument of Sopranos not being as popular is flimsy as well. As someone else pointed out, it had higher viewership for the finale. But for some reason that doesnt count because netflix vs dvds (your argument). It was common back in the day to have box sets and share them (and piracy was already a thing).

It seems your view is informed by your personal experience more than any sort of data.

But again, it wouldnt matter if bb was somehow slightly more popular, because as you would say "you didn't read my post".

We've strayed off topic and I'm repeating myself. Take or it leave.

 

[Zen]

Piracy wasn't just a thing... it was massive, ratings are exceptionally flawed especially comparing them years apart while massive cultural changes in how people view TV.

Top 10 Most Pirated Movies and TV Shows of 2007 * TorrentFreak (Sopranos final season not even top 10 - even at a time when it was aired MONTHS behind everywhere else, totally forgot how big Heroes was too )
'Game of Thrones' Most Pirated TV-Show of 2013 * TorrentFreak(Breaking Bad final season 2nd.... at a time when people could watch it on Netflix almost instantly as it aired in America everywhere outside of America, and the show it's behind.... arguably one of the biggest shows ever)

Yes I know, also a bit flawed, but it shows a certain level of popularity at their times of ending that is reasonably accurate.

I also haven't been downplaying Sopranos impact and popularity, I'm trying to bring you to where it was in realistic terms. You got mega defensive over something I really don't know, created arguments I wasn't actually arguing against or for.... and just yeah, because Sopranos wasn't as big as you think it was? Really weird.

 

[Zebs]

No Emmys again is frankly absurd.

Luckily they're still eligible for next year.

 

[Shane88]

No Emmys again is frankly absurd.

Luckily they're still eligible for next year.

Hollywood awards are bollocks but none ever is shocking.

46 nominations across 6 seasons and 0 wins from what I saw on Reddit. That feels like a grudge.

 

[VanDeBank]

Piracy wasn't just a thing... it was massive, ratings are exceptionally flawed especially comparing them years apart while massive cultural changes in how people view TV.

Top 10 Most Pirated Movies and TV Shows of 2007 * TorrentFreak (Sopranos final season not even top 10 - even at a time when it was aired MONTHS behind everywhere else, totally forgot how big Heroes was too )
'Game of Thrones' Most Pirated TV-Show of 2013 * TorrentFreak(Breaking Bad final season 2nd.... at a time when people could watch it on Netflix almost instantly as it aired in America everywhere outside of America, and the show it's behind.... arguably one of the biggest shows ever)

Yes I know, also a bit flawed, but it shows a certain level of popularity at their times of ending that is reasonably accurate.

I also haven't been downplaying Sopranos impact and popularity, I'm trying to bring you to where it was in realistic terms. You got mega defensive over something I really don't know, created arguments I wasn't actually arguing against or for.... and just yeah, because Sopranos wasn't as big as you think it was? Really weird.

Why did you take the part between parenthesis to make your case?

I wrote: It was common back in the day to have box sets and share them (and piracy was already a thing).

A quick search for the best selling tv shows will yield you a ton results for the sopranos and the wire in top ten best sellers, from outlets such as amazon, in multiple markets such as the UK and the Netherlands. (You've already conceded these shows were popular in the states and these 2 were the easiest to search for me).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/2009/dvd

Anyway for the umpteenth time, overall popularity is unimportant to your claim that BB introduced more interesting television(non procedural drama) to the masses. It did not. You'd have to subtract everyone who saw The Sopranos or The Wire. And going by sales and ratings that is a lot of people.

Scrolling through the amazon best sellers list, there's also shows like Mad Men, which isn't of the same quality but it's hardly smallville. Dexter was very popular apparently (haven't seen it). I even think Oz belongs in this category and that show was syndicated in multiple markets.

Apparently in Holland, the highest grossing dvd tv show was band of brothers in 2010, havent seen it, by I heard it's not exactly law and order. in 2010 most people in Dutchland had never heard of BB. Substract people who watched any of these shows as well.

By the time BB was at the heights of it popularity, plenty of people were already familiar with good television. BBs popularity is irrelevant here.

 

[entropy]

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[Zen]

Why....

By the time BB was at the heights of it popularity, plenty of people were already familiar with good television. BBs popularity is irrelevant here.

Yeah, you're just waffling at this point and I'm not sure you are taking anything in and I'm questioning if you actually witnessed the shows you are referencing as they were airing given how off you are. While also making stuff up that I didn't actually say at times. (I never remotely denied Sopranos wasn't big so not sure how this was 'conceaded', nor did I say the procedural drama thing - I merely stated it had an (pretty big one) effect which it absolutely clearly did, as did the Sopranos, Wire, Shield, LOST, 24, X-Files.... everything big and popular influences the next pilot greenlights)

How Breaking Bad Became the Most Influential Show of Prestige TV (collider.com)
‘Breaking Bad’ at 10: How the Gamechanging Show Redefined TV’s Golden Age – Rolling Stone

Articles like this explain it better than me - but why they exist when it didn't have much influence is a bit odd?

No Emmys again is frankly absurd.

Luckily they're still eligible for next year.

They deserve the snub for doing that 6 week gap solely to be eligible twice for essentially pandering for shitty awards, the final season split used to be down to contractual loophole reasoning, now they're taking the piss. My mate David Simon would never....

 

[VanDeBank]

Yeah, you're just waffling at this point and I'm not sure you are taking anything in and I'm questioning if you actually witnessed the shows you are referencing as they were airing given how off you are. While also making stuff up that I didn't actually say at times. (I never remotely denied Sopranos wasn't big so not sure how this was 'conceaded', nor did I say the procedural drama thing - I merely stated it had an (pretty big one) effect which it absolutely clearly did, as did the Sopranos, Wire, Shield, LOST, 24, X-Files.... everything big and popular influences the next pilot greenlights)

How Breaking Bad Became the Most Influential Show of Prestige TV (collider.com)
‘Breaking Bad’ at 10: How the Gamechanging Show Redefined TV’s Golden Age – Rolling Stone

Articles like this explain it better than me - but why they exist when it didn't have much influence is a bit odd?

Yes, giving numbers of sales when you dispute ratings is "waffling".

It would be so extremely difficult for me to find online articles fawning over the wire's and the sopranos' impact

You win, BB introduced more people to non procedural drama than its dozen of emmy winning predecessors with millions of viewers that were on dvd best seller lists or in syndication by the time BB hit its peak popularity. You made a very strong argument because the sopranos final season wasnt pirated as much relative to BB's

I don't know why people struggle so much to admit they made an erroneous claim. Stop digging, it's unflattering.

Neither of us went from smallville to BB and its definitely not the majority of people in this thread. Its blatantly obvious. Go argue that the earth is flat somewhere else.

 

[Zen]

Yes, giving numbers of sales when you dispute ratings is "waffling".

It would be so extremely difficult for me to find online articles fawning over the wire's and the sopranos' impact

What does this have to do with anything? Who's denying any of this - not me certainly.... so what's your point?

You win, BB introduced more people to non procedural drama than its dozen of emmy winning predecessors with millions of viewers that were on dvd best seller lists or in syndication by the time BB hit its peak popularity. You made a very strong argument because the sopranos final season wasnt pirated as much relative to BB's
somewhere else.

Again.... what? No one.... not one, person in this thread, denied popularity or influence of other shows, just you with Breaking Bad.... who's the flat earther again?

I don't know why people struggle so much to admit they made an erroneous claim. Stop digging, it's unflattering.

Neither of us went from smallville to BB and its definitely not the majority of people in this thread. Its blatantly obvious. Go argue that the earth is flat somewhere else.

Again... what?

 

[horsechoker]

 

[Vernon Philander]

No awards win is an absolute robbery

 

[Zebs]

They deserve the snub for doing that 6 week gap solely to be eligible twice for essentially pandering for shitty awards, the final season split used to be down to contractual loophole reasoning, now they're taking the piss. My mate David Simon would never....

Didn't Odenkirk have his heart attack just after they finished filming that scene in S6E07 and that meant that a lot of scenes hadn't been finished (editing and post) by the time the series had been scheduled to start so that's why the split was put in?

I'm almost certain they said that 607 wasn't meant to be a mid-season break

 

[Havak]

Amazed that this show didn't win a single award from 46 nominations

Not just because I think it's outstanding, but the TV I have watched over the same period as Better Call Saul seems.... Not that good?

 

[Berbasbullet]

Good knock this one.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Amazed that this show didn't win a single award from 46 nominations

Not just because I think it's outstanding, but the TV I have watched over the same period as Better Call Saul seems.... Not that good?

Yeh I’m mostly through White Lotus (not seen the finale) and it’s hardly a show that should be winning everything.

Edit: seems Better call Saul lost largely to Succession. Again, a good show, but season 3 hardly outstanding compared to Better Call Saul. Travesty.

 

[Posh Red]

Yeh I’m mostly through White Lotus (not seen the finale) and it’s hardly a show that should be winning everything.

Edit: seems Better call Saul lost largely to Succession. Again, a good show, but season 3 hardly outstanding compared to Better Call Saul. Travesty.

Succession was fantastic to be fair, as was White Lotus.

 

[Solius]

So I've been blazing through this the last month. I'm up to Season 6 Episode 7.

It is very good and definitely improves once it gets past the Chuck stuff. I know I have 6/7 episodes to go but for me it doesn't quite have as many heights as Breaking Bad did (which doesn't make it bad in any way). From memory I'd say the Lalo scene in the apartment towards the end of S5 and the Nacho episode in S6 stick out to me as really great moments. I thought Michael Mando was fantastic.

It's an extremely consistent, well written and smartly put together show. Every scene and story-line has thought put into it, down to the side characters that might only have a single word to say. You can tell a lot of work has gone into it and it all fits together nice and tightly. The cinematography is what we've come to expect from the creators, and is superb.

Looking forward to the last few eps I've got left. Very interested to see what happens with Kim since she's not mentioned in BB. No spoilers if you quote me!

 

[Solius]

Episode 7 ending oh shit.

 

[Rado_N]

Episode 7 ending oh shit.

probably the exact reaction everyone had to that scene

 

[Solius]

probably the exact reaction everyone had to that scene

Watched it and then went to bed but couldn’t stop thinking about it

I feel so bad for Howard. He didn’t really ever do anything majorly wrong and to have those two worlds suddenly collide at that moment but him not really having a clue what’s going on. Fantastic scene.

 

[Spoony]

I felt gutted for Howard and all. He was a decent bloke.