Bo Selecta was very racist in its depiction of black people. It may not have been intended but it promoted casual racism and a number of the black people parodied suffered abuse and in at least once case their kids were racially bullied because of the program.
"Blackface" Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It seems funny to me that the bbc are quoted as saying “it was a different time”.
It was 2011. We’re not talking the 1970s here.
It was 2011. We’re not talking the 1970s here.
God I’d forgotten about Ting Tong. It’s mental looking back.
Yeah I saw a clip for the first time in a while earlier, and it was mad thinking that it was just a few years ago.
It's the hypocrisy annoys me about this as well. It shouldn't matter who you are if you have done Blackface then you should be treated the same as the next person but that never happens .
Ant and Dec get a pass because they are tv's darlings yet someone else will get taken off air
Also whiteface is up there with saying all lives matter . Its not a thing so quit with the nonsense
Ant and Dec get a pass because they are tv's darlings yet someone else will get taken off air
Also whiteface is up there with saying all lives matter . Its not a thing so quit with the nonsense
Well that just makes it sound like they've removed the programme in case it received criticism in the current climate.
I think Wibble had the best response to someone asking about whether white face is racist. He said something like ‘yes, it is. But no one white cares’. I thought that was spot on.
I think that’s exactly what’s happened. But yeah they’re not supposed to make it sound like that.
It was racist in its deception of black people? I don't think it was at all. This wasn't blackface. It was a comedian mocking celebrity's. Spitting image was the same kind of thing.
What's next ban father Ted because he mocks the catholics, or ban Life of Brian for the same reasons.
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Bo Select depicted black people in very exaggerated and stereotypical ways. It was and encouraged casual racism. If the creator didn't agree why did he apologise?
Father Ted had a few dodgy moments (mainly the blackface early on in the fancy dress competition) but from memory wasn't bad with such things and even parodied racism. Life of Brian wasn't racist at all as far as I can remember.
I know remember watching a youtube video years ago, with John Cleese saying something like, if this was 300 years ago they would of got done with blasphemy and killed for it.
This wasn't blackface because it wasn't them dressing white dolls up in blackface. However, blackface isn't the only form of mimicry that is casually racist and causes casual racism to persist.
How do we move on though if we keep looking back. Or shouldn't anyone dress up as a different race for the foreseeable future just incase. Will enough time go by where you would be able to do this again? Its a very tricky subject at the minute.
When a Black man or woman plays Prince Hamlet, it's not deemed necessary that they resemble a white Danish nobleman. Nor does this spoil the illusion of the play being 'real'. So, it follows that looking exactly like someone you're impersonating isn't necessary at all.
I've never found it tricky at all though. If you are invited to a fancy dress party or invited to produce a comedy sketch or similar, then any actions that belittle or make fun of any group, particularity when solely on the basis of physical appearance, that have suffered or are victimised or discriminated against should be avoided.
Reminds me a little of the documentary of the depiction of Apu in America and about Indians / South Asians getting mocked with his mannerisms. The white show runners simply couldn't understand that it did (unintentionally) cause a lot of harm towards those communities.
Tbf I'm fine with comedic depictions of most things, my humour palette is pretty wide even as a minority on the but-end of jokes, but unfortunately media portrayals do have a large role in perpetuating harmful stereotypes. People are rightly asking where the line is drawn, and it's not an easy one to answer. I haven't watched little Britain and only one episode of come flu with me recently (found it boring), but I tend to largely see comedic shows as mocking the stereotypes, not perpetuating them. But for a lot of people those stereotypes do just become re-en forcing.
Progress doesn't get paid by the hour.
I mean racism is a tricky subject in general. What seems acceptable in one era, isn't in the next.
I don't if its been mentioned here, but i only found out a couple of weeks ago, that the main character in short circuit, that was asian, was played by a white man. It blew my mind.
Whaaaaaaaaaat blown my mind too
Things change. No harm us reducing access to things from the past in a general sense. Little Britain for example was horrible at the time and far worse in retrospect. It doesn't mean you have to necessarily vilify people who made this stuff, particularly the longer back you look, but I don't think we need reruns of The Black and White Minstrel Show for example to shine a light on how racist it was.
That was cringe-worthy at the time. In retrospect probably unwatchable.
Little Britain was shite, I thought it felt dated when it came out
now if they starting looking at The Thick Of It or Partridge then we have a serious problem on our hands....
now if they starting looking at The Thick Of It or Partridge then we have a serious problem on our hands....
I remember one episode of Little Britain and it was to do with the one who's always sick and she basically ate a cupcake not realising it was baked by a black man she then proceeds to be sick once she does realise and I remember thinking holu shit how did the BBC think that was okay.
nowt but a nice tile job
About time. Naturally I watched this crap growing up but once I was grown, I figured out how gross and damaging shit like this can be. You can draw a straight line between this garbage and the casual mistreatment of the disabled under austerity.
That's gotta be way down there with the least problematic by today's standards, since it was parodying racism.
No one working in tv would have the spine in this day and age to commission a show with characters like Andy and Lou, Fatfighters lady, or probably even Computer Says No, for fear of offending someone or other.
It’s tough with TV programmes and films, I would prefer not to cancel shows unless a very racist and malicious intent is behind say an example of blackface etc and just be more mindful with future productions.
On the other hand statues of slave traders for me glorifies slavery and is in the face of people whether they want to avoid it or not and therefore I advocate them coming down.
On the other hand statues of slave traders for me glorifies slavery and is in the face of people whether they want to avoid it or not and therefore I advocate them coming down.
Little Britain and Come Fly With Me were definitely more questionable than Bo Selecta. I watched Come Fly With Me for the first time a month ago and was even thinking “how the heck were they able to do this only ten years ago”.
I think the Trisha character in Bo Selecta was probably the one really questionable character and not at all surprising she spoke out about it. Elton John too.
The Craig David, Michael Jackson and Mel Bo characters, I don’t think really played on any racial stereotypes, it was just completely random eccentric behaviour. I think ultimately with shows like these if they’re watched by people with underlying racism/sexism/homophobia they can reaffirm and encourage those beliefs.
I think the Trisha character in Bo Selecta was probably the one really questionable character and not at all surprising she spoke out about it. Elton John too.
The Craig David, Michael Jackson and Mel Bo characters, I don’t think really played on any racial stereotypes, it was just completely random eccentric behaviour. I think ultimately with shows like these if they’re watched by people with underlying racism/sexism/homophobia they can reaffirm and encourage those beliefs.
fecking hell. I can't believe entire families watched this shit. There used to be merchandise of it everywhere and people still have the audacity to act like it was okay because they want to delay the inevitable realisation that they were on the wrong side of these fights the whole time.
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The Craig David character stripped the artist of his credibility and forced him to flee the country. Mel B has spoken about feeling attacked by her character too. These shows don't exist in a vacuum.
Even the guy who created them agrees they were unnecessary so why can't you? In an age of endless content, why do we have to preserve this shit? You can stick it in a museum display about 21st century racism if you want but it doesn't need to be on Netflix.
What a hill to die on. I salute you sir!
What about Eddie Murphy doing Jewface in Coming To America?
Can someone please explain what a ‘slippery slope’ is?
Usually a fallacious argument. But in this case I think it is a consideration.
No but it’s incredibly recent is all I’m saying. Normally it takes decades for such things to age so badly.
What a strange tone you’ve taken in response to my post. Looking for outrage where there doesn’t need to be any.
I’m aware of Craig David and how he felt about it. Though he went on to state he doesn’t feel it affected his career and he even made up with Francis. My point was it wasn’t racially based mocking where as Trisha was. Craig David even made a guest appearance in a Bo Selecta episode.
Your comments about Mel B are an actual lie and I question why you feel the need to make up such a lie. There’s videos of her literally saying she liked the character. Only last December she did a joint sketch with the character.
Where did I say the characters should be preserved? Where did I say Leigh Francis shouldn’t have apologised? And the mocking forced him to flee the country? Seriously ?
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I'm still not seeing how getting rid of Little Britain is a slippery slope, which I think the BBC pretty much did on their own. A couple of people responded to Walliams with a picture of his blackface character that got retweets but there was hardly a sustained campaign to get it off the air
And even if there was, despite many people now being a bit more Hannah Gadsby than Roy Chubby Brown in their comedy taste, we do not live in society where the left dominates culturally over others and right wing is silenced
The biggest papers in terms of sales lean right. Radio shows prominently feature right wing personalities and talking points and are easily able to weather any repercussions. Think Nigel Farage on LBC, Hartley-Brewer and Mike Graham on talkradio. We also see regularly right wing columnists like Brendan O'Neill or Tom Harwood get slots on Sky, BBC to give us their opinions
We're also forgetting that we elected PM somebody who is not exactly the most PC when it comes to race issues.
And even if there was, despite many people now being a bit more Hannah Gadsby than Roy Chubby Brown in their comedy taste, we do not live in society where the left dominates culturally over others and right wing is silenced
The biggest papers in terms of sales lean right. Radio shows prominently feature right wing personalities and talking points and are easily able to weather any repercussions. Think Nigel Farage on LBC, Hartley-Brewer and Mike Graham on talkradio. We also see regularly right wing columnists like Brendan O'Neill or Tom Harwood get slots on Sky, BBC to give us their opinions
We're also forgetting that we elected PM somebody who is not exactly the most PC when it comes to race issues.
In fairness, Little Britain was a bit shit and not really something you can salvage. Low-base humour that mocked a lot of people in society for no good reason.
A better example is Gone with the Wind - removed from HBO streaming - and they've agreed to put it back up with an explanation before the film about the historical context in which is was set. Seems like the most sensible decision.
A better example is Gone with the Wind - removed from HBO streaming - and they've agreed to put it back up with an explanation before the film about the historical context in which is was set. Seems like the most sensible decision.
I absolutely hated Little Britain when it first came on and I really thought it was in very poor taste and was clearly racist and also laughing at poor and disabled people also. It was a fecking disgrace that it was made in the first place and I have despised in particular Walliams ever since. I'm glad it's gone.
I've seen bits of it and didn't like it.
Is that the big joke? That Britain is really like that?
That's just a cop out. Everything has a historical context. They just know that binning Gone With The Wind will also consign a good portion of their back catalogue to the archives. You can say goodbye to all the spaghetti westerns. If you're going to go down this road you're going to have to be consistent. It may be painful but it is what it is.