mancan92
Full Member
Nope because of historical and power dynamics at play.Is the film White Chicks racist?
Nope because of historical and power dynamics at play.Is the film White Chicks racist?
again, no one is saying that every person blacking up is racist.It is difficult though @stepic, extremely difficult. In the same way the Robert Downey Jr wasn't racist for playing a role in which he "blacked up", I don't think every black person "whiting up" for a fancy dress or a white person "blacking up" or trying to look like Bruce Lee is racist. Half the time it's no different to Eddie Murphy playing an African King in a movie, or Borat taking the piss out of America and a large portion of Americans.
Part of the problem we're having in the World today with the right wing shift is due to people trying to throw a blankett over anything and calling it racist. Do I believe Antoine Griezmann who has probably more black mates than white is racist because he blacked up once? No. Probably a little simple though for not realising how sensitive the World has become.
Neither would his supportersBlack face was considered racist and was known to be so back in 2001. Pretty much since the 1970s.
And while an apology is important, I don't think it can excuse such repeated behaviour so easily.
Put it like this, Trudeau wouldn't be forgiving others in this situation.
I agree. He's always looked very transparent, insincere and weasley to me.I see what you mean. I think his rep was mostly PR huff though, personally.
This is probably the best answer to that questionYes. And sexist and most offensive of all for being utterly shit.
The racism is aimed a group who aren't dis-empowered by the racism and white face has no particular history so nobody cares that much, which is fair enough.
If someone is willing to become an out and out racist because blackface has been deemed offensive, they probably were pretty racist to begin with.It is difficult though @stepic, extremely difficult. In the same way the Robert Downey Jr wasn't racist for playing a role in which he "blacked up", I don't think every black person "whiting up" for a fancy dress or a white person "blacking up" or trying to look like Bruce Lee is racist. Half the time it's no different to Eddie Murphy playing an African King in a movie, or Borat taking the piss out of America and a large portion of Americans.
Part of the problem we're having in the World today with the right wing shift is due to people trying to throw a blankett over anything and calling it racist. Do I believe Antoine Griezmann who has probably more black mates than white is racist because he blacked up once? No. Probably a little simple though for not realising how sensitive the World has become.
This is the correct answer. Do it once in ignorance and apologizing doesn't make you racist. Doing it again after being told it's racist, does make you racist.again, no one is saying that every person blacking up is racist.
no one is saying Antoine Griezman is racist because he blacked up once.
but that doesn't mean the act itself isn't racist. you don't have to be a racist to perform a racist act.
what you can do is acknowledge the sensitivity around the issue, reflect upon it, try and understand why it could be conveyed as insensitive, learn from it, and move on. oh and don't do it again.
Just my thoughts but certainly some of the high level politicians we have fall far below a standard we expect of them and in general far below the standard displayed 30 - 40 years ago. Times change certainly but shouldn't we expect things to get better not worse?My thoughts on this are that people have to stop bigging up politicians to be something they aren't. It seems like another good reminder that it's insane how the level of political discourse has put them into a position where they're elevated to a status far above what they should be. Happens on both the right and left.
In my opinion yes but we seem to different standards for politicians these days. For a start, we seem to only elect think they're good if they have a strong media personality. I think that's part of the problem - that we don't really care how well they govern us as much as how it appears they govern us.Just my thoughts but certainly some of the high level politicians we have fall far below a standard we expect of them and in general far below the standard displayed 30 - 40 years ago. Times change certainly but shouldn't we expect things to get better not worse?
I don't personally believe this. I think politicians are simply under a lot more scrutiny now than they were 30-40 years ago and with phone cameras and social media practically ubiquitous, more stuff comes up.Just my thoughts but certainly some of the high level politicians we have fall far below a standard we expect of them and in general far below the standard displayed 30 - 40 years ago. Times change certainly but shouldn't we expect things to get better not worse?
You're forgetting someone aren't you? Likes to perform the robot dance at events... Maybe that was enough personality to leave her out of that group?What's the chance of a stuffy, boring, work-first John Major or Gordon Brown-esque type getting into office anytime soon? Doesn't seem too high.
I don't disagree that they are in public view to a greater extent but Ministers and MPs actually used to resign when caught out in a lie, either from cabinet or for example caught fiddling their expenses. Heseltine who resigned over the Westland Affair. Look at how many lies Johnson has been caught in. I think that it is different not just easier to see.I don't personally believe this. I think politicians are simply under a lot more scrutiny now than they were 30-40 years ago and with phone cameras and social media practically ubiquitous, more stuff comes up.
I agree with everything you say, to the cost of trust in our politicians - not that I guess that's ever been in full supply.In my opinion yes but we seem to different standards for politicians these days. For a start, we seem to only elect think they're good if they have a strong media personality. I think that's part of the problem - that we don't really care how well they govern us as much as how it appears they govern us.
I mean if you look at post-1990 in both the US and UK we've seen Clinton, Blair, Bush, Obama, Cameron, Trump, Johnson (although not elected). All personality-first types.
What's the chance of a stuffy, boring, work-first John Major or Gordon Brown-esque type getting into office anytime soon? Doesn't seem too high.
Ah, the old ‘black friends’ justification , was wondering when in the thread this would rear its ugly head. And yeah, poor Antoine griezmann for engaging in an act that has a historically racist context to it, he should’ve known how these sensitive lefties would react.It is difficult though @stepic, extremely difficult. In the same way the Robert Downey Jr wasn't racist for playing a role in which he "blacked up", I don't think every black person "whiting up" for a fancy dress or a white person "blacking up" or trying to look like Bruce Lee is racist. Half the time it's no different to Eddie Murphy playing an African King in a movie, or Borat taking the piss out of America and a large portion of Americans.
Part of the problem we're having in the World today with the right wing shift is due to people trying to throw a blankett over anything and calling it racist. Do I believe Antoine Griezmann who has probably more black mates than white is racist because he blacked up once? No. Probably a little simple though for not realising how sensitive the World has become.
I was born and raised in Canada (class of 74). I'm not sure when the first time I saw blackface was but I know I was very young and even then I knew it was wrong.These days though? Canada in 2001? I don't know, I'm not seeing much basis for an excuse there. An apology and an, "I know better now" is a start, if it's genuine and said without too many buts in the sentence.
We had to use some brown makeup for a play at school, I would have been around 13/14.
tbh, I didn't think anything of it in this context. There were 3 of us who needed to do it and we were all more worried about the teacher of dubious sexual preference putting it on for us than the thought it might be offensive to anyone.
It's interesting. Growing up where I live there was no historical black face context. I honestly never knew much about it or what it signifies in the United States up on till recently . I can't speak for France but one must remember that we aren't all from the USA or actively know about there history. What is bad context for them is sometimes acceptable in other places around the world as it has no meaning.Ah, the old ‘black friends’ justification , was wondering when in the thread this would rear its ugly head. And yeah, poor Antoine griezmann for engaging in an act that has a historically racist context to it, he should’ve known how these sensitive lefties would react.
That's fine tbh but once you learn the historical context at that point you simply don't do it again.It's interesting. Growing up where I live there was no historical black face context. I honestly never knew much about it or what it signifies in the United States up on till recently . I can't speak for France but one must remember that we aren't all from the USA or actively know about there history. What is bad context for them is sometimes acceptable in other places around the world as it has no meaning.
No, for Europeans bar UK (because conections with US) has no historical racist context. We are recently learning that blackfacing is racistAh, the old ‘black friends’ justification , was wondering when in the thread this would rear its ugly head. And yeah, poor Antoine griezmann for engaging in an act that has a historically racist context to it, he should’ve known how these sensitive lefties would react.
Really?No, for Europeans bar UK (because conections with US) has no historical racist context. We are recently learning that blackfacing is racist
I'm a young non white person. If I say ya'll are free to be racist, does it make it okay? Avoid using this sort of logic. Doesn't help. Call people out for their shitty views without telling them "you're X you wont understand"I’m enjoying the old, white men telling everyone how it’s just a costume and we’re all being a bit silly.
ReallyReally?
why is that so hard to believe?Really?
That blackfacing is racist? is absolutely not hard to belive. Is completely racist if you link it to Minstrel. But as I and most of europeans we didn't know that link,it wasnt racist. In what concerns Spain, now we know that offends people and act accordingly. Historically the guy blackfacing in christmas was a revered character and one of the 3 and equaly most important characters in the parade and was not depicted as dumb, poor but as wise man, generous and intelligent. With that characteristics, you can't feel that blackfacing was considered racists. Also, In Spain, seeing a black citizen in the 80 and 90 was really really rear and maybe in big cities than Madrid and Barcelona therefore you couldn't find people to depict the character. Now, immigration changed that and we can progress and respect and not offend. Is transitioning to the right way with the new knowledge we havewhy is that so hard to believe?
That blackfacing is racist? is absolutely not hard to belive. Is completely racist if you link it to Minstrel. But as I and most of europeans we didn't know that link,it wasnt racist. In what concerns Spain, now we know that offends people and act accordingly. Historically the guy blackfacing in christmas was a revered character and one of the 3 and equaly most important characters in the parade and was not depicted as dumb, poor but as wise man, generous and intelligent. With that characteristics, you can't feel that blackfacing was considered racists. Also, In Spain, seeing a black citizen in the 80 and 90 was really really rear and maybe in big cities than Madrid and Barcelona therefore you couldn't find people to depict the character. Now, immigration changed that and we can progress and respect and not offend. Is transitioning to the right way with the new knowledge we have
Oh I seeI was more asking why is it hard to believe that someone just realises that black face is racists up on till recently. I am from a country that is 90 percent african decent. Had no clue about minstrel and Jim crow and all of that. Black people from the united states have a very different history of racial issues than others. I think we have the same thoughts on this. We are learning about it for the first time. The world doesnt revolve around the USA and UK so its quite understandable for some people to have not known that black face is offensive or know why it is offensive.
At the political level, it may be, but there are still many people who do not know it.That blackfacing is racist? is absolutely not hard to belive. Is completely racist if you link it to Minstrel. But as I and most of europeans we didn't know that link,it wasnt racist. In what concerns Spain, now we know that offends people and act accordingly. Historically the guy blackfacing in christmas was a revered character and one of the 3 and equaly most important characters in the parade and was not depicted as dumb, poor but as wise man, generous and intelligent. With that characteristics, you can't feel that blackfacing was considered racists. Also, In Spain, seeing a black citizen in the 80 and 90 was really really rear and maybe in big cities than Madrid and Barcelona therefore you couldn't find people to depict the character. Now, immigration changed that and we can progress and respect and not offend. Is transitioning to the right way with the new knowledge we have
Who is ‘we’? I’ve known about the history for a long while now.No, for Europeans bar UK (because conections with US) has no historical racist context. We are recently learning that blackfacing is racist
we are you from?Who is ‘we’? I’ve known about the history for a long while now.
I agree that is more about PC that people that actually know. but is increasing on knowledge and the feeling still is not racist but we try not to offendAt the political level, it may be, but there are still many people who do not know it.
Griezmann, Ramos or Iniesta painting their faces was completely overlooked in the press. It has not created any kind of social alarm/debate and I doubt that it will do in the near future.
Even in some towns like Alcoy they reacted very quickly to defend the party.
I think they(the blacks) have to move much further socially until people take blackface seriously and this coming from Anglo-Saxon countries, it is taken as a modern extension of the black legend and will be replied and underestimated by politicians
The UKwe are you from?
Then read the sentence that you quotedThe UK
Basically anglocentrismNo, for Europeans bar UK (because conections with US) has no historical racist context. We are recently learning that blackfacing is racist