Blaming the manager

[SER19]

To all exclusively blaming the manager (who I'm not a big fan of), are you all absolutely crazy? We have had three managers of different schools of thought and styles of play and the players have risen to the challenge of none of them. You are letting the players away with murder, even BBC pointing out the team casually strolling around after and swapping shirts.

I remember losing 3-0 or 4-3 away at Newcastle about 2000 or so and it felt like the entire world was falling in. Keane was going absolutely mental, got sent off and the entire country was rejoicing in the "turmoil". Why do you allow the wool to be pulled over your eyes, of course these guys are incredibly talented, of course they're "good enough" on some level. But the majority do not have what it takes to face the situation the club is in right now.

The squad is failing the manager and the fans and receiving no consequence other than us throwing yet another manager under the bus despite all evidence pointing to the players.

 

[The_Order]

The only thing Mou got wrong was the team selection, but even that didn't warrant a 4 nil beat down, the players completely bottled it

 

[DeOddi]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

Especially when the criticisms are those which people had legitimate (obviously considering they've played out right) concerns about before the season began. About Mou's approach being taken over by Pochettino etc.

 

[#07]

Mate 20 years ago this month Phillipe Albert chipped Big Pete in a 5-0 loss at Newcastle, come the end of the season we still won the league.

Results like this do happen. I'm interested in what the table looks like in May 2017 not in October 2016. Six points off with 29 games to go. Too early to panic.

 

[Stringer]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

People weren't blaming them only two months into the season.

 

[devilish]

Mourinho does have his share of fault. He shouldn't keep insisting on playing Ibra week in week out, he should have considered playing Blind-Herrera-Pogba in midfield and considering how much we need new talent in the team I wonder whether it was a good idea spending so much on Pogba.

There again, this defeat cant be attributed to him. The squad is meah and Smalling messed up big time

 

[bosnian_red]

Mourinho at fault partially for today, main reason because of selecting Fellaini just says the wrong message to everyone. Him being there is strictly to disrupt their game (Also disrupts ours). Also not using Martial who was our best attacking player by a mile last season.

But overall, yes I agree, some of the players have just been disgraceful in their attitude. When things start going bad they just lose their heads and lose all composure, or turn lazy and start walking around, or just put in trash performances. Honestly, the only players today who played in the right way were Valencia, Herrera and probably Rashford. Rashford I don't think is a good winger at all, but at least he brings the right attitude to games and knows how to actually pass the ball to his teammates most of the time. Also is always up for it. Herrera always has the right mentality, always brings the intensity to the game and that's why he should always start. Same with Valencia. They are just reliable players. Bailly you can put in too, big shame about his injury.
The rest though? Pogba and Ibra go missing or start walking around/try to do everything on their own. Lingard puts in effort but goes missing too often in games. Fellaini is awful and has no talent, but also starts being sloppy on the ball. Smalling and Blind lose their heads like nothing after 1 mistake and start second guessing every touch. It's just not good enough and that mentality has to change.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

Also, we repeatedly change the players too. It's hardly as if it's only new managers coming in and failing with the exact same players. We've also been signing player upon player, changing the composition of the squad consistently, with the same shitty results every season.

 

[rocks13]

Didn't our manager talk about specialist players for specialist positions in the summer? How does that tally with Blind at left back, Rashford on the wing, Pogba at number 10, Mata on the right wing.

 

[Sammyjunn]

He got it wrong, again. 3 matches against top sides, 3 poor performances, if we play like this vs City again, maybe some should come to their senses and see he's doing something terribly wrong. Even under van Gaal we were much better against top sides with inferior players, we dont have a style of play, or an identity, it's just loose and mostly shit.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

It would take years to get rid of all the players. You can get rid of the manager at any time. That is one of the reasons why they will always get a ton of blame in these situations.

 

[Woodzy]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

Mourinho has been here 3 months (since the season began). We stood by Van Gaal and even Moyes at this point. In fact, we stood by Moyes for far too fecking long.

 

[Vilev]

To all exclusively blaming the manager (who I'm not a big fan of), are you all absolutely crazy?

I think people who say "you can't blame the" managers are being silly. They lack basic understanding of what it is manager actually does and how things work, not only in football but in general.
Of course yo must blame the manager. It's not only his job to get, select the right players, it's also his job to know their condition, to prepare them, ensure they can do the job. The manager is responsible for all that and then some. It's the same for any person in am executive position. You delegate a lot of stuff to your team. And when someone screws something up, it is your fault, because you gave him this exact job and it's your job to know whether he would have been the right man for that exact job. Same thing with Mourinho. Who forced him to play Ibra who is completely off-form? No-one. Who forced him to play Fellaini? Who forced him to sign Mkhitaryan for a lot of money, a player that is not really in the squad. Our defensive organization is a mess, especially in DM zone. Something that Jose should have addressed a long time ago. And etc.
Jose is being paid a lot of money himself, and United are not paying him for beer commercials and stupid interviews. They pay him so that he would get all these things right. And he failed to do that.

But of course you can't judge a manager after 10 games. He should have a season at least. But if we are 7-th in the end of the season, then he will be gone more likely and rightly so.

 

[SER19]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

I said the same then

 

[donkeyfish]

It's the same for any person in am executive position.

This argument lacks nuance. Might as well blame Malcom Glazer then. Or God if you're religious.

In any type of structure, each node has a certain amount of freedom. Although executives generally takes the public blame, the real blame rarely falls on a single element. It is a nice and clean way to think about the world, but usually an approximation (at best).

 

[Cassady]

To all exclusively blaming the manager (who I'm not a big fan of), are you all absolutely crazy? We have had three managers of different schools of thought and styles of play and the players have risen to the challenge of none of them. You are letting the players away with murder, even BBC pointing out the team casually strolling around after and swapping shirts.

I remember losing 3-0 or 4-3 away at Newcastle about 2000 or so and it felt like the entire world was falling in. Keane was going absolutely mental, got sent off and the entire country was rejoicing in the "turmoil". Why do you allow the wool to be pulled over your eyes, of course these guys are incredibly talented, of course they're "good enough" on some level. But the majority do not have what it takes to face the situation the club is in right now.

The squad is failing the manager and the fans and receiving no consequence other than us throwing yet another manager under the bus despite all evidence pointing to the players.

It's 2000 anymore more mate.

I remember seeing Liverpool in the early 90's going all weird and remember saying similar stuff. Mid table at Chrimbo one season and still won the Leauge.

I honestly don' t see United dominating
anymore.

Best let go mate as in the long run it's easier.

 

[Vilev]

This argument lacks nuance. Might as well blame Malcom Glazer then.

You mean the dead guy?

In any type of structure, each node has a certain amount of freedom. Although executives generally takes the public blame, the real blame rarely falls on a single element. It is a nice and clean way to think about the world, but usually an approximation (at best).

But i get your overall point. We can swap the strange suggestions you've made for a proper one, Woodward. Who is tasked with running the club.
And of course you are right, the blame is not universal, it has certain levels. Of course the fault almost never lies with only one person, but the key here is to see where this blame fits.
So why Mourinho and not players (lower level) or Woodward (higher level)? Well if we look at Woody, an i am not a fan, the club itself runs pretty smoothly in terms of commercial. Maybe if Mou will be sacked, Woodward or actually owners realize that Woodward is out of his depth in terms of managing the sport side and appoint some proper sport director. That's another discussion. But anyway with the financial results being what they are you can hardly fire Woodward. So clearly the blame fits on a lower level, since it's not the club as a whole that underperforms, but only a team on the pitch.
So why not the players then? Because if lets say 10 or even 9 of our players played good and we have one or two dreadful performances against Chelsea (or in other games) and we were unlucky to lose because of that, that would never be Jose's fault of course. It would have been hs fault if these two players were selected again and again, making mistakes, costing us more and more points. But actually against Chelsea the whole team looked flat and useless, there were not even one player who you could argue had a good game. Some had sort of decent game, the one you can say is satisfactory, which means they were not completely shit basically. But still they were far, far from "good". And if the whole team is below par, well clearly it's not a blame of players, it's managers, cause he is the one, that should be organizing the team.
So this Chelsea defeat is exactly Mourinho's fault. Players made mistake, but all of them did, which means the preparations were insufficient.

 

[Castia]

I must be missing something because anybody can see Fellaini and the likes of Lingard and even Blind at LB aren't the best players we have at the club for those positions yet they play almost week in week out. Martial might not be in the best form of his career (scored 2 in 2 now though) he needs to start, he's arguably our best player on form. Something must be going on in training because surely the players mentioned along with Rojo etc just aren't United players yet get picked over so called top stars.

 

[AndyJ1985]

I must be missing something because anybody can see Fellaini and the likes of Lingard and even Blind at LB aren't the best players we have at the club for those positions yet they play almost week in week out. Martial might not be in the best form of his career (scored 2 in 2 now though) he needs to start, he's arguably our best player on form. Something must be going on in training because surely the players mentioned along with Rojo etc just aren't United players yet get picked over so called top stars.

It's almost as if starting poor players like Lingard and Fellaini is in some way related to us playing badly. Who knows?

 

[donkeyfish]

You mean the dead guy?

Ops, the only Glazer name I remember.

The blame doesn't necessarily fit the same way if you have the proper insight to judge though. Did Smalling play injured today e.g.? We don't know. It happened with Rooney on Thursday, so its not unthinkable.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

Not only that, there are people who are fine blaming LVG for our performances now!!! I mean when does Mourinho and his fans start to take responsibility for poor performances. It’s ok to criticize him.

 

[Attila]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

Not only that, there are people who are fine blaming LVG for our performances now!!! I mean when does Mourinho and his fans start to take responsibility for poor performances. It’s ok to criticize him.

Well did everyone blame everything on Van Gaal after 8 league games? I don't remember that

And @The BlackGaijin when you say Mourinho fans its basically United fans who don't think we should lose our shit in October when we are only 6 points from the top. Have some patience for gods sake

 

[sunama]

The only thing Mou got wrong was the team selection, but even that didn't warrant a 4 nil beat down, the players completely bottled it

That's basically it.

 

[sunama]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

In the case of LVG, I backed him 100% until we lost/drew every game in December.
I like to give the manager at least 1 year to make a difference.
To start blaming the manager and beginning the 'Jose Out' sentiment, after 2 months is ridiculous.

How many managers are we going to get through? At some point we need to make a stand and say no more manager firings. Stick with this guy and demand that he sort out the mess. The same goes for the players. Rather than threatening them with a transfer, tell them that they need to up their level. Don't give them an easy way out - make them (managers and players) perform.

 

[Water Melon]

For the love of God, we have been through tough fixtures. We are just 6 points off the top. Look at this manager, is he happy to lose? No. Is he throwing his players under the bus? No. I still trust this man.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ManUtd

 

[legball]

I still trust him & hope he will deliver, I'm fairly confident he will. But, look at the first 2 goals we conceded, especially the first, not sure I can blame him for that, the players bottled it, but, after that? That's where the manager comes in, the response, it was non existent.

 

[Masterman]

As someone mentioned before:

It is the job of the players to play well

It is the job of the manager to make sure the players are playing well

It is the job of the board to make sure the manager is getting the players to play well

If the players are at fault, then what the hell is the manager doing? And if the manager is not good enough then what has the board been doing?

 

[Catt]

Nobody seemed to have a problem blaming everything on Moyes and Van Gaal. Interesting that people are so quick to come to Mourinhos defence.

Was LvG or even Moyes blamed 2 months into the season? I don't think so and certainly not LvG.

 

[Ventura]

We have too many mid-table players, but it's still possible to get more out of them than this, and we have some real quality players too. Mourinho is supposed to be some sort of managerial mastermind, and it's time for him to get this sorted out. Conte did well to change things after a poor start to the season ... can Mourinho do the same?

 

[Bobcat]

The only thing Mou got wrong was the team selection, but even that didn't warrant a 4 nil beat down, the players completely bottled it

This. On pretty much all four goals it was comical defending on our part. Pretty hard for the manager to safeguard against something like that

 

[Sarni]

Like the great man once said, I don't know what we have to do to win. We have good players, good manager and still get battered consistently.

 

[Freak]

You look at the team and you think who'd stand up to be counted when things are going badly? I can only think of 6 - Mata,Herrera,DDG,Valencia,Baily,Rashford. The rest of them are just overpaid superstars or cowards who shirk responsibility.

 

[RedPnutz]

As someone mentioned before:

It is the job of the players to play well

It is the job of the manager to make sure the players are playing well

It is the job of the board to make sure the manager is getting the players to play well

If the players are at fault, then what the hell is the manager doing? And if the manager is not good enough then what has the board been doing?

If the players have a brainfart 30 secs into a game, how much of that can you pin on the manager?

 

[Lurpak99]

Was LvG or even Moyes blamed 2 months into the season? I don't think so and certainly not LvG.

As time goes people will get more and more impatienced, also because the spending in the last three years has been insane, yet we hardly look any better than we did under Moyes. Yesterday was like those defeats against Liverpool and City in the second half on the 13/14 season, we looked clueless and the manager didn't have any solutions.

 

[giggsyflying]

definitely the manager had to bear some responsibility. rojo is definitely not good enough. when 2 goals down, why not sent young to play as left back and move blind to CB?

 

[Roboc7]

The tactics and team selection were poor so manager has to take a lot of the blame. if he can't find a way to use players like mata, martial, mkhitaryan and persists with the likes of lingard, young and fellaini then he isn't going to last very long as manager because without a complete rethink we aren't getting anywhere near the top four.

 

[podurban2]

Right now players and manager are doing a horrible job. They are all at blame.

 

[Catt]

As time goes people will get more and more impatienced, also because the spending in the last three years has been insane, yet we hardly look any better than we did under Moyes. Yesterday was like those defeats against Liverpool and City in the second half on the 13/14 season, we looked clueless and the manager didn't have any solutions.

Yeah I don't know but the solution is not another manager just yet. We need to settle and get some stability.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

And @The BlackGaijin when you say Mourinho fans its basically United fans who don't think we should lose our shit in October when we are only 6 points from the top. Have some patience for gods sake[/QUOTE]


I disagree. There are two categories of fans when it comes to Mourinho.
l 1 There is the Majority who are united fans who either liked or never liked Mourinho before but who will stand by him now because he is the manager and he deserves a shot. These fans are supportive of the manager but they acknowledge he is human and he can make mistakes. They also dont shy away from pointing out these mistakes.

l 2. Then, there are those united fans who loved Mou since he burst onto the scene and have wanted him here for a long time. Most of them it seems believe he is the second coming and they will bite your head off if you mention Mou in any bad light.
These fans will praise mourinho and if we win and blame LVG and Moyes if we lose.

l I don’t think anyone is seriously calling for Mourinho to leave now. But in the past it was always fine to analyze and criticize a manager’s performance even after a few games. But to some people. This manager should be immune to any criticism. I don’t know.

l What’s wrong in acknowledging that mourinho's start to the league has been disappointing?