Ooh Goody!!..
you do know that bob dylan is a songwriter and is not obliged to talk about that kind of thing. where you determined he refused to is beyond me.
Of course he wasn't obliged to. Hence why I used the phrases "his choices" "maybe it's not right to" and "in my opinions"...It's nice to know you read my posts before jumping on them
However for a man who made his bones and earned much of his respect and status criticising the injustices of society, to cow tow to the Chinese regime in censorship, and ignore a plight that he had an opportunity to bring to a wider audience and which he would've known about, even at 70 (it's very big news) is, for me, selling out. It has little to do with his music (though a small part to do with their lyrics and their sincerity) which is mostly exemplary, but I'm allowed to have my opinions on his public choices (as you are of mine) as I, and I'm sure many of you, do on Bono for his philanthropy and tax evasion, Queen for breaking the SA Apartheid boycott, Gary Glitter for being a nasty piece of work and John Terry for being a cnut....And I'd think carefully about whether you've ever had an opinion on someone you don't know personally for their extra-curricular activities before you lambast me for having a contrary one on someone you particularly admire
I consider it a crying shame and a missed opportunity, as I would like anyone and everyone with a platform to bring injustice to the for to do so whenever possible. Dylan, with his profile and his track record, had such an opportunity, and while I've said it's his choice and it may be unfair, I think less of him for baulking at it.
Mock. He has made all the political statements that need to be made.
He does not have to restate them.
This is a ridiculous statement. All political statements are different for all times and climates, and the fact that he removed "Times They Are a Changing" from his set at the behest of the Chinese government shows that he probably does need to restate them, as they patently mean nothing to him anymore, if they ever did....And this is the point where the music
does come into it, because whilst Dylan clearly owes me nothing, I find it hard to admire such songs as heartily in the knowledge that the artist either never meant them, or at the least, dismisses their importance these days.
My opinions.
Now...
Ever met him? Whether he's a prick or not is subjective.
Of course it is. I wouldn't dare to claim otherwise. I'm sure you have opinions on people outside of their professional capacity though?...And at times, that does reflect on their work, especially if it hints at their possible dishonesty and cynicism...Something that could very legitimately undermine a protest song supposedly repleat with heartfelt meaning..
He's just a guy whose particularly good at writing songs, I find the sort of hero worship people engage in over famous people a bit pathetic,
Indeed....A bit like a raft of people willing to jump on someone for their opinions merely because they're negative on a person they admire..I've never hero worshiped Dylan, it seems far more likely my detractors in this thread do more than me for a start..
why would anyone give a shit about his political leanings or his personality, he's a songwriter, he's written some excellent and innovative music over decades.
Well when he made his name and iconic status by being the voice of a disenfranchised generation, whether he actually gave a shit about it is a legitimate factor IMO. If Leonard Cohen turned round and said "Actually I'm well happy, I just wrote all those songs about suicide cos I knew there was a market for them" it'd affect his standing and people's opinions of some of those songs..Likewise if Bono suddenly turned around and said "You know what? feck Africa, I don't give a shit anymore" He'd get a shit load of slack for it. But Bono doesn't have the iconic status or clawing fanboism of Dylan.
Like say, going electirc when he'd made his name as a folk singer?
So basically you're the guy at the back of the hall shouting Judas, when he 'sold out' by plugging in an electric.
No not at all. That was a musical choice which I thought he was brave for making. It's not at all like not taking the chance to make even the smallest bit of difference politically when you're in a privilaged position to do so.
I would be critical of any musician who went to a country with a horrendous human rights record and notoriously oppressive government and allowed their set list to be censored ....As I'm sure quite a few would. Except as you yourself pointed out in your first line, "the hero worship people engage in is a bit pathetic" hence why criticism of an icon like Dylan over it will usually elicit such biased responses.
Ohhh Stewart Lees said it, oooh god, I'd better accept and adopt that then, he's clever and funny.
Oh look, there's the sarky, superior Popper I know.
How is a sell out exactly?
The examples you give is a person exercising his own freedom of choice. What the hell has it got to do with selling out?
As I said, I'd be critical of any artist who did what he did. But for a man who made his name by apparently being so principled and so desperate to affect change, it's a blindingly obvious, if not overly cliched example of selling out....How can it not be?
Again, take the blinkers off Dylan fans.
Because thats what Stewart Lee said, probably.
Oh look, there he is again.
Telling me it's ludicrous to hero worship and then ridiculing me childishly - 3 times in separate posts in this thread, implying a certain level of "bent-out-of-shapeness (or, erm, caring?) - for having a pop at someone you admire is hardly the most consistent argument Popps.
More importantly what's it got to do with his ability to write a good tune?
Nothing. But I haven't said it has. Though it does have something to do with his ability to write a heartfelt and meaningful song, or to take those he may have written in the past with the same reverence. Songs, especially Dylan ones, can, and do often go well beyond just their "tunes"....Toxic by Britany Spears is a good tune. It's not Hurricane though is it?
