Boeing 737 loses contact during flight in Indonesia

[NotworkSte]

Mpl is strictly airline specific.

I understand that. Students on MPL course do fly single engine aerplane, but perhaps don't solo on them due to limited hours/syllabus.

Anecdotally, there is a 737 sim here in Tampa and when I used it, I performed horribly, my first landing even with instructor talking me through it was horrible. I forgot crab and not slip for crosswind, corrected and lost control of airspeed and then tried to correct that and landed flat, in real life no one was walking away from that. Either the airport has cat 3b, weather within minimums and jet has capability, or the situation is probably not going to go well.

 

[Enigma_87]

At no time did I say they can land it on their own. I said talked down. It means someone competent on the ground who is telling to put switches on and turn knobs. Of course anyone who has never flown is not going to be able to land on his own.
The chances of survival are much better with anyone in the flight deck than two people who are fully incapacitated in the flight deck.
I have done the SIM. The real one. When I tried to fly I crashed. When I tried to follow instructions only on the flight management system or auto pilot as most people know it lands itself.
This is what I mean.

The thing is, you will almost never be able to simulate the exact same conditions you will have to handle in real life scenario.

The SIM you probably took probably was the best case scenario - no microbursts, no fog, no rain or wind, which are quite common in practice. Some airports have very steep approaches so it will require the pilot to be very, very fast in the landing sequence and one error can be fatal.

By land on his own I mean based on radio instructions, as you don't have the instructor looking over your shoulder.

Besides, landing flat is a very real possibility for anyone without an experience working the controls. Bouncing on the runway has caused a lot of fatalities and crashes and is a real possibility. Skidding off it also.

You are also looking at a 26 years old aircraft and there are a lot of those in service - it might or not have the most recent safety features or updates. To me a passenger safely landing a jumbo jet, even if he had some PC experience falls into the 1% or less territory.

 

[Abizzz]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ash-victims-sue-boeing-for-dangerous-aircraft

So families are suing Boeing. Probably not much to read into that at this point. But the guardian also says the preliminary report is due in early February.

 

[Phurry]

At no time did I say they can land it on their own. I said talked down. It means someone competent on the ground who is telling to put switches on and turn knobs. Of course anyone who has never flown is not going to be able to land on his own.
The chances of survival are much better with anyone in the flight deck than two people who are fully incapacitated in the flight deck.
I have done the SIM. The real one. When I tried to fly I crashed. When I tried to follow instructions only on the flight management system or auto pilot as most people know it lands itself.
This is what I mean.

I’ve spent 2 days in the British Airways 777 sim at Cranebank, the proper one in which they train & assess their crews (the big cube on hydraulic jacks with a full cockpit inside) with a senior Captain as instructor. At the time I was completing my training as an Air Traffic Controller so had a good & up to date knowledge of all the things like met, RT, navigation, aircraft performance etc. Additionally, I also held a private pilots licence, certified for C172 & PA28, at the time. All of that in the way of advantages and still no chance do I feel I could land one in real life by following instructions.
They don’t just “land themselves”, there’s a feckload of work to get the aircraft setup correctly even for auto landing.

 

[Wibble]

Sounds like maintenance issue that allowed an auto-throttle malfunction to provide full thrust to one engine and nine to the other. Then compounded by pilot error as they tried to get the system working instead of taking it off auto-throttle and flying manually. The plane became unstable and fell out of the sky. They still haven't found the voice recorder which might provide clarity as to why the pilots didn't take control.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/maintenance-pilots-focus-indonesian-737-crash-investigators/

 

[MDFC Manager]

I've sat inside Boeing and Airbus (intend to take the full course in the future, when I find some free time and for general love of aviation). The controls are completely different. Even if you sat multiple times inside Boeing and then sit inside Airbus you will need a lot of time to get accustomed. Even if you put aside visual differences and that in Airbus you had a lot more electronics compared to Boeing then you have joystick and yoke - the feel very very different. You set up course,autopilot, flight envelope is again different. Windshield and visibility is different, tyres, fuselage length, fuel capacity, you have to take into consideration prior to landing fuel, runway length, number of passengers, load, wind, visibility, clear traffic.

Besides having ILS doesn't mean that it's operational at 100% everytime. You have mainenance cycles, technical issues you are not guaranteed perfect conditions. Also even if you have ILS places like Innsbruck or Madeira you are a push of a button away from ending in tatters. Hell even London is hard to land for some commercial pilots depending on conditions, let alone at a smaller airport.

Let me put it this way even if I know Airbus, even had some flight hours, gone through simulators and all and suddenly appear in Boeing cockpit with zero knowledge about that deck I won't feel comfortable at all landing that plane and there is a big big chance of cocking up something, especially under pressure.

Not even remotely the same situation, but came across this today

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[yumtum]

Not even remotely the same situation, but came across this today

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Two astonishing things in this video, a normie being able to land a plane first time, and a human still being unable to use a camera to take a tidy video.