wolvored
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- Jul 6, 2016
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Were not boring 100% of the time,but there are a lot of halves were we are.
Playing nice football doesn't matter if you can't get results. I mean there's literally no argument against that or else that person is basically saying they would rather be in 16th flirting with relegation playing nice football like Brighton instead of 2nd.
But then since we're not going to be playing nice football it does beg the question, why not just get a pragmatic manager who has a more proven track record of success like Conte or Allegri?In Fergie's last years we were dreadful to watch. Counter attacking 1-0 wins for most of the season but we won everything so no one seemed to care. Back then it was called 'grinding' out a win while 'playing in second gear' and it was widely applauded within the media.
Do people actually know what they want anymore or do they just like complaining?
United historically have always played counter attacking football with pacey wingers, we're trying to emulate that in the football we play now but apparently it's relying in individuals or some bollocks to that effect.But then since we're not going to be playing nice football it does beg the question, why not just get a pragmatic manager who has a more proven track record of success like Conte or Allegri?
The whole point with Ole was that he understood the "United way", but if that's out of the window then what's the differentiator between him and a Conte for example? Both play pragmatic, but one seemingly guarantees trophies.
This is hypothetical btw, I don't actually want to swap Ole for Conte. We've seen some very good football from Ole in the past, so I still have hope the football will improve.
Agreed. Everyone, from fans to players to staff, was on the same page that we were going the wrong way under Jose.United historically have always played counter attacking football with pacey wingers, we're trying to emulate that in the football we play now but apparently it's relying in individuals or some bollocks to that effect.
We tried pragmatic under Jose and it was dreadful, we completely bypassed the midfield most matches and this place had a collective meltdown, and we won stuff. However the players decided they didn't want to play that kind of football at a club like Manchester United
Oh I don't. I mostly think of you as a troll.Then don't.
Not sure where you pulled that stat from?As I said before, results have improved but how many games have we played well in? 3 max this season? PSG, Leipzig, City?
Yeah you can look at those, Arsenal created more chances yesterday than we have in our last 3 games. That tells you something.
Is this serious? What are you on about? We played 4 matches before that Leicester match and the results were
1-2 Loss to Swansea City. A game where we had 1 shot on target and it came from a corner and a flukey flick on from Jones and Swansea allowing Rooney to get off a bicycle kick not even a yard from the net.
1-1 vs Sunderland (outshot by Sunderland)
0-0 vs Burnley (outshot by Burnley)
4-0 win vs QPR (finished last and were the worst defense by 10 goals that season, conceded 73 goals, think that was 15 from the record for most conceded in a season)
This is not even including that 0-4 loss to MK Dons. Which I still think is the reason why Michael Keane got loaned and then sold because in Van Gaal's stubborn thick headedness he decided Keane & Evans were the reason for that loss and not him deciding to play a bunch of youngsters that obviously weren't comfortable with his boring tactics. Still annoys me that Van Gaal was the manager that decided Paddy McNair & Tyler Blackett were better to help the squad than Michael Keane.
So no you're wrong, we were playing his boring ass football a month before that Leicester match and it wasn't like before the Leicester match we played teams that finished in the top 5-6. Burnley & QPR finished 19th and 20th and Sunderland finished 16th and were 3 points from being relegated.
Im happy to win ugly especially this year. Everyone looks really leggy but even if we were fresh If we want to step it up and actually challenge we still need a serious injection of quality. We need to find an easier way of beating the bus teams when they rarely step out of their half. I reckon a natural striker and winger are needed either way to freshen up the team and make some new combinations.What is exciting football?
Is it attacking at 100mph, scoring goals for fun, whilst shipping goals, every game a 5-4 or 4-3? If so then go watch Leeds implode very other game and sturggle to get out of anything other than midtable. Personally I find Leeds infuriating to watch, zero game management, naive defending and a general lack of balance.
Exciting football to me is watching a team play attractive attacking football whilst finding the balance between fluid attacking play and strong defence. Of which I think United are nearly there.
We attack well, despite the protestations of a select few on here, we are the second highest scorers in the league and have a very vibrant, youthful and pacey team. We look to have sorted our defence out, some very solid shut outs recently. We also play some very intricate passing passages of play and can counter at breakneck speed.
I think the issue isn't in whether we play exciting football, it lies more in the entitlement of some fans who are never actually happy no matter how we play.
And somehow this team was always able to score 89 and 86 goals respectively in Fergie's last 2 league campaigns, numbers we haven't even come close to under any manager after his retirement.In Fergie's last years we were dreadful to watch. Counter attacking 1-0 wins for most of the season but we won everything so no one seemed to care. Back then it was called 'grinding' out a win while 'playing in second gear' and it was widely applauded within the media.
Do people actually know what they want anymore or do they just like complaining?
Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov and Van Persie probably had quite a bit to do with the goals we scored.And somehow this team was always able to score 89 and 86 goals respectively in Fergie's last 2 league campaigns, numbers we haven't even come close to under any manager after his retirement.
We're not boring, but we aren't as dominant as we should be. We saw after project restart what dominating games looks like. We haven't been able to replicate those performances and its showing in our home form. We are again in a position where we aren't scoring goals when in control of games, but are better when space opens up in more even contests. It's a good platform to have and in truth exposes the fact that we should be playing games at a much quicker tempo when we are in control as we have the players to take advantage of that.
The question becomes, why do we slowly build up in those games?
I don't think Ole plans for that. He constantly insinuates that he wants a quicker tempo. Unfortunately for us, when we do quicken the tempo, our midfield doesn't have the technical ability to make those quick transitions, pass out of difficult presses or dictate tempo, so then play it back to our defence ( usually Maguire), who is tasked with holding and moving the ball across the back line , as he seems to be the only one comfortable with having possession of the ball in that area of the pitch. As a result of this, he is forced to become a defensive playmaker, trying to get the ball to our attackers high up the pitch from such a deep position. Of course, as a defender, he doesn't have the consistent long passing range to pull that off and since our team is so congested in the middle already due to snail pace we are already playing at, Maguire is forced to keep moving the ball slow. When we do get the ball to midfield due to a good pass from one of our defenders, they usually lack the first touch to keep that ball in midfield ( around 40 percent success rate), which either leads to a turnover in possession or a restart of the already slow build up play, with our attackers ( front 3 and Bruno) operating very far away from our defence and the ball. Sometimes we get lucky, and Luke Shaw has the will and drive to advance the ball down the flanks and create great combination plays with Bruno or Rashford, sometimes we also get lucky on the right, when Mason plays there with that, but usually when with James, nothing comes down that right hand side outside of a counter attack.
The issues:
a. Our midfielders aren't comfortable in possession and moving the ball out of the intial press to force defences deep or take advantage of them not playing deep.
b. Too many attackers are pushed high up the pitch. We aren't City, we don't have midfielders that can take that level of pressure in possession ( and are supported by full backs). We need more players to support the build up play.
c. We lack complete attacking play off the right hand flank.
Due to these issues, we lack penetration or support in our build up play, so struggle to craft chances. We don't even have the option of playing the ball out wide for our wingers to craft chances individually ( which I personally believe is a strategy that Ole wants to employ). Our right wingers are not creative and Rashford's recent injury crisis means that he doesn't drive as much as he usually would. Right now, we only create chances when Bruno creates the time and space to open up the defence. Sometimes when Pogba plays, his aggressive attacking play can help us push back the opposition defence and create long shot opportunities. Outside of these and set pieces, we aren't creating chances.
Nice. Taking credit away from Sir Alex due to the teams he built. Love it. Not sure where Ronaldo and Tevez were during his last 2 seasons. Or Berbatov for that matter. So 3/5 you got wrong it seems.Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov and Van Persie probably had quite a bit to do with the goals we scored.
What are you talking about? Compare his final team to the one we currently have. How many players get in the first 11?Nice. Taking credit away from Sir Alex due to the teams he built. Love it. Not sure where Ronaldo and Tevez during his last 2 seasons. Or Berbatov for that matter. So 3/5 you got wrong it seems.
Firstly this is the new generation of United fans who instead of crediting a manager for the team he builds and players he brings in/improves, manages to stumble over his own crooked feet and discredit him for it. Secondly, to even compare Sir Alex with Ole and to try and take credit away form Sir Alex is a little pathetic. This is a man who elevated his side and the greatest footballer manager of all time, and on the other side, Ole. FFS.What are you talking about? Compare his final team to the one we currently have. How many players get in the first 11?
Yeah, those two world class strikers had nothing to do with the goals we scored, all Sir Alex...
Also did Ronaldo, Berbatov and Tevez feature in Sir Alex's last two seasons?What are you talking about? Compare his final team to the one we currently have. How many players get in the first 11?
Yeah, those two world class strikers had nothing to do with the goals we scored, all Sir Alex...
City in the League Cup was a good even contest for the first 50 or so minutes against a rejuvenated City side.Which were the negative results that we played exciting football in? Certainly not Leicester the other week, or the games against RBL or Istanbul. Most certainly not the Arsenal loss or the loss to City in the league cup, or the Palace loss first game of the season. Definitely agree that we played well in the PSG loss and were unfortunate to lose. The problem is that even when we win, it's often boring and laborious. See last night, see the weekend etc. It's not always the case, but it's enough to warrant discussion.
Very good post. How do you propose we solve this issues and a) would just signing a defensive midfielder who is comfortable on the ball and playing alongside Pogba help with the midfield. b) signing Sancho, a fitter Rashford and a more settled Diallo I guess should help with using the wings for creating chances but then we also need a CB and ST and there definitely wouldn't be enough funds to pursue all that, so which positions do you think we should prioritize to give us a better chance of competing for the title next season.We're not boring, but we aren't as dominant as we should be. We saw after project restart what dominating games looks like. We haven't been able to replicate those performances and its showing in our home form. We are again in a position where we aren't scoring goals when in control of games, but are better when space opens up in more even contests. It's a good platform to have and in truth exposes the fact that we should be playing games at a much quicker tempo when we are in control as we have the players to take advantage of that.
The question becomes, why do we slowly build up in those games?
I don't think Ole plans for that. He constantly insinuates that he wants a quicker tempo. Unfortunately for us, when we do quicken the tempo, our midfield doesn't have the technical ability to make those quick transitions, pass out of difficult presses or dictate tempo, so then play it back to our defence ( usually Maguire), who is tasked with holding and moving the ball across the back line , as he seems to be the only one comfortable with having possession of the ball in that area of the pitch. As a result of this, he is forced to become a defensive playmaker, trying to get the ball to our attackers high up the pitch from such a deep position. Of course, as a defender, he doesn't have the consistent long passing range to pull that off and since our team is so congested in the middle already due to snail pace we are already playing at, Maguire is forced to keep moving the ball slow. When we do get the ball to midfield due to a good pass from one of our defenders, they usually lack the first touch to keep that ball in midfield ( around 40 percent success rate), which either leads to a turnover in possession or a restart of the already slow build up play, with our attackers ( front 3 and Bruno) operating very far away from our defence and the ball. Sometimes we get lucky, and Luke Shaw has the will and drive to advance the ball down the flanks and create great combination plays with Bruno or Rashford, sometimes we also get lucky on the right, when Mason plays there with that, but usually when with James, nothing comes down that right hand side outside of a counter attack.
The issues:
a. Our midfielders aren't comfortable in possession and moving the ball out of the intial press to force defences deep or take advantage of them not playing deep.
b. Too many attackers are pushed high up the pitch. We aren't City, we don't have midfielders that can take that level of pressure in possession ( and are supported by full backs). We need more players to support the build up play.
c. We lack complete attacking play off the right hand flank.
Due to these issues, we lack penetration or support in our build up play, so struggle to craft chances. We don't even have the option of playing the ball out wide for our wingers to craft chances individually ( which I personally believe is a strategy that Ole wants to employ). Our right wingers are not creative and Rashford's recent injury crisis means that he doesn't drive as much as he usually would. Right now, we only create chances when Bruno creates the time and space to open up the defence. Sometimes when Pogba plays, his aggressive attacking play can help us push back the opposition defence and create long shot opportunities. Outside of these and set pieces, we aren't creating chances.
I don’t think most United fans take any credit away from SAF. His records and achievements are there for eternity. Ole is always being compared to our previous managers Jose and LvG and yes SAF. If we want to talk about getting back to top then we will naturally also compare him to the man, under who we were at the top.Firstly this is the new generation of United fans who instead of crediting a manager for the team he builds and players he brings in/improves, manages to stumble over his own crooked feet and discredit him for it. Secondly, to even compare Sir Alex with Ole and to try and take credit away form Sir Alex is a little pathetic. This is a man who elevated his side and the greatest footballer manager of all time, and on the other side, Ole. FFS.
Pick any random ten.name ten clubs who are better than us then.
Boohoo, United didn't go out an thrash the opposition playing like prime Barcelona. Every single team has struggled with intensity this season. United are still in transition and winning games and looking on course to improve on last season.
Yes our football is not the most eye pleasing but I would still have this brand than whatever LvG did with us. That was just watching paint dry.There is a section on the caf lately that have been disingenuous to anything that resembles a critique to this current United side.
This team is not fun to watch. We do get a surprise every now and then with games like City, RBL and Leeds but more often than not we're not a great watch.
Do people think threads comparing Ole's football to LVG and Mourinho are just made for no reason. If this team played attractive football, no one would accuse of of being boring. From a personal point of view, I've zoned out of games as much as I did under our last two managers.
The true mark of an entertaining side is rival fans tuning in to watch. We have many rival fans on here, I can't imagine any of them derive any pleasure in watching our football.
We're talking about the likes of Brighton here. They get the lead and park the bus. Of course we "take control".But we take control after going a goal down. Its strange how thats being thrown into the boring pile. Our CL campaign alone was fecking ridculous!
Leeds, City, West Ham away, Southampton twice, Everton both times, hell 3 times since the cup game was a fun watch, Leicester, Villa, Liverpool fa cup, Socieadad away, Milan away, Spurs, City in the semis, Sheff Utd away, Palace, Brighton, Fulham.. All good games and im just rattling games off from memory.
It just seems like its plucked from mid air
I don't even know what you're saying anymore, it's just a string of pure bollocks this post that's completely wide of the mark regarding anything I said or implied.Firstly this is the new generation of United fans who instead of crediting a manager for the team he builds and players he brings in/improves, manages to stumble over his own crooked feet and discredit him for it. Secondly, to even compare Sir Alex with Ole and to try and take credit away form Sir Alex is a little pathetic. This is a man who elevated his side and the greatest footballer manager of all time, and on the other side, Ole. FFS.
Well, what you said and what you implied was utter garbage so there's that.I don't even know what you're saying anymore, it's just a string of pure bollocks this post that's completely wide of the mark regarding anything I said or implied.
If you want to know whether they are bad players or no then you should ask yourself whether our playing style right now is bad or no in your view. Our playing style right now suits those players he inherited. Since I don't think our playing style is bad so my view on our players are also the same because we are getting the best out of those majority players right now with the system we are playing.I mean in bigger games I do understand the McFred partnership, tbh if we can pass the ball better I don't mind them playing in any game.
He was given players but they are not bad players are they? There have been no signs that he wants to evolve that way because the best ball retention player in our squad is VDB and he doesn't get a look in.
Bruno has regressed to a level of the other players as well.
The people who think that every other team in the league play wonderful attacking football whilst we always play dull lifeless ball don't watch many games of other teams outside of Match of the Day highlights and have incredibly selective memories on United matches
United fans have been complaining about us being too boring for decades. Last night reminded me of some of the dour European aways of the Querozzzzz era. Just needed some fans at the ground to chant “442” and “Attack Attack Attack”. We even had a streaker for the full retro experience.
All true.We suffer from teams treating us as a massive game and thus defending in numbers.
Teams like Leicester and Leeds are in that sweet spot almost where other teams think they are beatable and play more open against them. Makes their play look better every game despite them having overall worse results than us.
I personally don't think we need a striker. I think people don't yet see how the build up and lack of chance creation affects our strikers more than any other players. Greenwood/Martial in rotation is fine ( so that we don't spend too much). I only want us to sign a centre back because I think you need good aerial ability to play in England, Lindelof doesn't have that and it affects us dealing with long balls ( ben white would be fine and cheap).Very good post. How do you propose we solve this issues and a) would just signing a defensive midfielder who is comfortable on the ball and playing alongside Pogba help with the midfield. b) signing Sancho, a fitter Rashford and a more settled Diallo I guess should help with using the wings for creating chances but then we also need a CB and ST and there definitely wouldn't be enough funds to pursue all that, so which positions do you think we should prioritize to give us a better chance of competing for the title next season.
For me I believe we are better off fixing the chances creation and midfield control issues than the defence and goal scoring ones to compete for the epl because I think that is primarily where City are miles ahead of us and would turn all the draws against the average teams to comfortable wins. To be among the favorites for the UCL and compete with the big boys we probably will need to address the CB and ST issues but that can come later.
I think there is a real disconnect between what constitutes entertaining football and what fans can expect. Fans expect Manchester United to surpass every other club in the world in their playing style significantly.
We currently are playing better and nicer football than every team in England bar one.
Just because its Brighton doesnt mean its boring? The likes of Brighton are teams that fans pretend we struggle against with low blocks despite winning so many games after giving them head starts.We're talking about the likes of Brighton here. They get the lead and park the bus. Of course we "take control".
Leeds play suicidal football, and our last match against them we showed how much better we are if a team wants to approach us like that. Give me a break with Brighton tooI'm Ole in but do you watch other teams? This isn't even close to being true. I've watched the majority of prem games this season and I can tell you that Leicester, Leeds and Brighton play nicer football than us for starters.