Seems like some of you will sadly never get it
Boycott The Qatar World Cup?
- Thread starter OldSchoolManc
- Start date
Do you really need me to tell you about current/ongoing European participation and complicity in different war crimes and human rights abuses?Please tell us more about current or ongoing European/Western war crimes, @Pintu
Probably not but I still need you to tell me who proclaimed themselves human rights champion ?
I haven't watched a single match yet. Do your part caftards.
The implication as in the meaning of the picture (ie. what it implies). And you do realize one can express a tangential opinion that's not an argument, right? This isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Exactly what was the question or accusation he was responding to? I'll wait. Just admit you had no idea what the word meant so we can move on. It's ok to be wrong.
I am riled up? Ok. You don't make sense still but go on
Don't bother replying
Your entire ‘point’ is supposedly that you can’t stand the ‘hypocrisy’ of pundits voicing their dislike of the oppression of gays and free speech and the mistreatment of migrant workers.
Yet, you also claim that there’s ‘NOTHING WORSE than the oppression of minority groups’…
Thus, you are clearly being, at best, a hypocritical pedant, and, at worse, an obvious troll.
So, which is it? Which is more worthy of your ire?
A. Roy Keane for speaking against the behaviour of the qatar government, or
B. The behaviour of the qatar government?
Which bothers you more? A, or B?
It’s a figure of speech but I meant the 7 associations from “the UEFA Working Group on Human and Labour Rights” that said they will make their captains wear One love armbands, until it become too risky. Yellow card risky for them to stand up for gay rights.
They said in their statement among other great things that “Human rights are universal and they apply everywhere”. We both know they don’t mean that. And now we’ve learned that even in the places where human rights apply (like in Qatar) they are not worth a yellow card.
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Are you ignoring me saying my only issue is Keane being in Qatar himself saying the world cup shouldn't be there?
Keane could have been in UK and stated his disgust about Qatar just like many pundits are doing but you keep ignoring that. It's like you want me to be ok with Qatar's belief. Weird.
I have already stated my stance, you can play mental gymnastics to disagree with me. I know what I believe in
First off thanks for the clarification.
I'll take your "figure of speech" as somehow meaning something else than what I understand it to mean then.
However on your last point, I don't know that. For me they are universal, they can only be impinged upon. That some people have their human rights impinged doesn't make them any less universal. The only ones I could possible exclude is any nation that declined to be part of the convention or abstained. However while I acknowledge this I don't respect it because I don't respect the regimes that decided to decline or abstain (i.e authoritarian countries).
Can you direct me to where I implied it was an argument, please? I'll wait. Or is that just a non sequitur.
The poster was clearly responding to the criticism directed by the German national team at the 'censoring'. Or do you think it was just a random cartoon that could have been posted in any thread?
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. When I say, "They don't mean that". The "they" refers again to the 7 associations. I don't believe for one second that the aforementioned associations intend to speak up on human rights abuses when they participate in sporting events in other places. And I don't believe they are sincere about "labor rights" given the contracts they have with different brands that use modern slavery in the Asian sweatshops.
Again, thanks for the needed (on my part) clarification. And while I don't agree with your view I can at least understand it now.
Yes. By claiming the use of a whataboutism. If not, this is an entirely pointless conversation.
Unsurprisingly missing the point. Has there not been numerous tangential issues discussed in this thread? Posting a picture that expresses an opinion loosely related to the topic is not whataboutism, especially given the medium. You're just so eager to shut down any opinions that don't fit with whatever narrative you're so desperately fighting for in this thread.
Yet again, there doesn't have to be a specific line of 'argument' involved for something to qualify as a whataboutism. Do you understand that?
We're not getting anywhere here, are we? You asked me what the poster was responding to with that image, I told you, and you now fudge by bringing the 'medium' of the message into it. It's perfectly clear, as I said, that that image was posted in response to the German national team's symbolic gesture. Do you agree or disagree with that? If you agree, then you must see how that is whataboutism. If not, you're either stubborn or dense. I imagine the former.
In terms of the narrative you say I'm desperately fighting for: what, in your eyes, is that?
In an attempt to save these threads from the toxic direction they’re being wilfully taken in - mods, what is the forum stance on whataboutism? Derailing threads is a no no, does whataboutism fall under that? And if not, maybe it should.
Everyone’s free to start a new thread on any given topic, so it’s not censorship.
@moses @Raoul @Wibble
Everyone’s free to start a new thread on any given topic, so it’s not censorship.
@moses @Raoul @Wibble
We have 2 lines here:
One that consider the European associations involved to be a bunch of hypocrites pretending to care about LGBT rights in some PR campaign.
One that considers these associations to be genuinely progressive and that they do care about Human rights (maybe they don't want to take a yellow card... But they care, and we are proud of them).
It seems you fall into the latter group.
Yes.. Tell me about European participation. I also look forward to read your definition of participation and war crime. Is the weapon industry a war crime?
Whataboutism is a variant of the appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy. What are logical fallacies? Deductive arguments. You sure seem more focused on semantics than the topic at hand.
I specifically asked what's the accusation or question. You brought up the German national team censorship. That's a topic, not an accusation or question. It clearly happened and I haven't seen anyone argue or question that it didn't. The medium matters because you fail to acknowledge that this is a thread with many loosely related conversations taking place and that it's silly to brand the ones you don't like as whataboutisms.
If want to call me dense or stupid just do it directly. No need to be coy and dance around it like some sort of coward. It's the internet and I've been called worse on this forum. Nothing will happen.
You're right, this was cheap. I was getting frustrated and I apologize for that. No need for it.
Apology accepted. No hard feelings.
You're a good dude. I've an argumentative streak in me, that's for sure. Think I got it from my old man...he was a cnut too!
Again he could have but he wouldn't have reached nearly as big an audience as he has done on live national TV on ITV.
Eh, which question was that again?
I doubt the economy of Qatar is relying on the hotel and food revenue of Roy Keane.
Just so we're on the same page here, help me understand what you're a bit upset here mate. Do you agree with Roy's message on Qatar but feel his apparent hypocrisy undermines that? Or do you just dislike that he's criticising Qatar?
Just going round and round and round. Car crash of a thread.
On ignore
Maybe he learned more about the situation there and changed his mind?
Wouldn’t that be totally understandable and natural?
Isn’t it GOOD to be fluid of thought and open to new information, rather than ‘I said / read this once, so now it’s a fact’?
It’s starting to get very troubling how so many people seem more motivated by pedantry than by compassion for other humans suffering.
I bet his learning curve is bell shaped, it will flatten out again at the next world cup. Peaked only in 2022.
Well said.
It's early days still, but I wonder if Qatar regret their decision now? The negative publicity has to be way worse than they expected and the viewership numbers in some European countries are absolutely terrible. The numbers are way too bad to just blame it on a 3 hour time difference or the timing of the tournament. A substantial number of people are actually boycotting this world cup, even when the games are broadcast on public TV.
Another person using ‘woke’ in this way
oh dearLinekar has recently commented on those quotes form 2018.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63720785
I decided that I will skip this and even though it’s been hard I have missed it all so far. Really tempted by the England game tomorrow though
In what way? What is definition of woke?Another person using ‘woke’ in this way
alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
Tell me again why all these people are going after Qatar? Mentioning corruption, migrant worker deaths,...
I don't think they would and outside of Europe there's not the same outrage or scrutiny if any. The big picture is it's been worthwhile.
And Gary Lineker's comments say a lot about the way things were in 2018, cast yourselves back to 2012 or 2008, not many were pushing the things they do today. We didn't have Wayne Rooney wanting to wear a Rainbow arm band. We didn't have F1 drivers doing the same sort of thing whether that be Lewis/Vettel when young or the older drivers of the recent past. I think we forget just how much ideas and minds have changed since 2010 and have really changed drastically in the last 5 years, it's ever increasing within western Europe and anglosphere. It feels odd to then expect complete turnaround in Qatar let alone places in Africa, South America, east and south Asia, eastern Europe. The Russia invasion and Roman has also woken people up to the sportwashing or lets say self marketing of a state or oligarchs, it's used as a vehicle to help normalize.
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Well it originated in black culture and was bastardised by the right to basically have a go at everything they don’t like but you carry on using it like you were told. That’s definitely the right side to be on.
It is more complicated... He wanted to boycott Russia first (back in 2014...) And then learned to embrace it in 2017... And now he's learned to speak up against Qatar.
Europe is a pretty big market, though. And I say "Europe", but you could probably throw in Australia, New Zealand and the US to a certain degree. Canadians may turn a blind eye for sporting reasons, but they tend to be similar to Western/Northern Europe when it comes to these things.
All in all we're talking about countries that make up way more than a billion people, who generally are rich on a world scale. I honestly think Qatar would have been better off laying relatively low with their airline on a few jerseys instead. But I'm just speculating.
This is participation and assistance. You may call it weapon industry. I call it for what it is, when you send pilots over there to fly the jets that go on bombing hospitals and schools.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190326-uk-special-forces-injured-in-top-secret-yemen-campaign/
Helping Saudia Arabia in Yemen is criminal in my view. But you probably disagree.
The Saudi led coalition (with support of the UK and UK mandated experts) have committed numerous war crimes that have been documented.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/saudi-war-crimes-yemen/
Our secret dirty war: Five British Special Forces troops are wounded in Yemen while 'advising' Saudi Arabia on their deadly campaign that has brought death and famine to millions
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ded-Yemen-advising-Saudi-Arabia-campaign.html