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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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EU 27 agree 'no single market a la carte' for UK: Tusk & Spanish PM opposes EU talks with Scotland

Ixion

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What a mess.
 

montpelier

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M18CTID said:
My own opinion on this is that it probably really shouldn't have gone as far as a referendum. You're right that Cameron promised it to appease some of those in his own party (which kind of makes a mockery of Farage's comments yesterday when saying he was the one that brought about a referendum! But that's a different matter). However, he could've always reneged on that as it's not like a prime minister has ever kept to all their promises. He probably wasn't expecting the Tories to grab an overall majority though and that maybe made it harder to go back on.
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I would suggest that he loses the Conservative leadership any time he reneges on his Ref Promise, by causing Rebellion in Conservative ranks & affecting the Parliametary majority at that point. Certainly in a bind, that's for sure.

But probably thought REMAIN would win the Referendum easy enough, :D. Triumphantly led by Dave, obvs.
 

M18CTID

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montpelier said:
I would suggest that he loses the Conservative leadership any time he reneges on his Ref Promise, by causing Rebellion in Conservative ranks & affecting the Parliametary majority at that point. Certainly in a bind, that's for sure.

But probably thought REMAIN would win the Referendum easy enough, :D. Triumphantly led by Dave, obvs.
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Yeah, but given he's now lost his job anyway I don't see any difference!
 

Enigma_87

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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You don't think there's a huge possibility here of Ireland and Germany (and possibly Scotland) seeing great opportunity in a Brexit and stripping England and Wales of their prize assets, thus "filling the gap"?
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Nah, I don't think Ireland or Scotland would leave before all is done and dusted.
 

Kaos

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Ixion said:


What a mess.
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A mess but gives me faint hope brexit won't go ahead.

No single market is a deal breaker which would pretty much force major institutions away from London, and by compromising on immigration the Leave campaign has pretty much made the whole thing obsolete considering immigration was what won them the referendum.
 

fcbforever

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M18CTID said:
Are you not aware that oil output is far exceeding demand? That in turn has pushed the price down which in turn has made it harder for Norway and the UK to compete with the Middle East countries due to the higher costs of extracting it over here. It's easy for you to say that cheaper oil prices are better for the European economy but for those of us that work in the industry it isn't that simple. You sound like you don't give a shit that companies in Aberdeen and Norway are going bust every single day but I wonder if you'd be quite as flippant if you were one of those that could be affected. I haven't told Two Sheds to suck it up with his job due to Brexit makeing his situation more precarious - I wouldn't dream of it - so a bit more diplomacy wouldn't go amiss.
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Of course I'm aware there is more production than demand. So, some countrys production is bound to fail eventually. Normally this would've happened already, the problem is countries like Venezuela are unable to do so because even at minimal profits, they need to keep going.
So you want to go back to a cartell that can just regulate prices at will. That is like telling, oh look, Ikea is producing too much furniture, let's get back to the times when we all had to pay 3 times the price for it just because!

Of course ist shit when your economical branch goes down. But please don't tell me you didm't know it wouldn't happen anyway. OPEC breaking down just fastened the process up. This has NOTHING to do with the EU, this has something to do with ending resources and the fact countries like Saudi Arabia are not willing anymore to finance Venezuelan social expenditures by artificially cutting their output down. If they can produce at this price while making a profit, they are free to do so in my opinion.

It' amazing really how you seem to be against foreign influence into your own countries economy while you want to tell other countries how to run theirs.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/29/news/economy/vodafone-uk-brexit/

Brexit: Vodafone says it might leave the U.K.

Britain's vote to leave the European Union may cost it the world's second-largest telecom company.

British industry giant Vodafone (VOD) says it's considering moving its headquarters out of the U.K. following last week's shock referendum result.
The loss of the company, whose stock helps anchor the benchmark FTSE 100, would be a stinging blow for a country that is struggling to come to terms with the economic consequences of a vote to divorce its European neighbors.

Vodafone said in a statement that Britain's EU membership has "been an important factor" in its growth. It added that bedrock EU principles including freedom of movement of people, capital and goods are all vital for regional companies. "It is ... not yet possible to draw any firm conclusions regarding the long-term location for the headquarters," the company said. "We will continue to evaluate the situation and will take whatever decisions are appropriate in the interests of our customers, shareholders and employees."

Vodafone, whose group headquarters are in London, said the vast majority of its 462 million customers and 108,000 employees are based outside of the U.K. The company earns 55% of its pre-tax revenue in Europe, while only 11% comes from Britain.

There are tremendous levels of uncertainty facing British businesses in the wake of the vote. London must now establish new trading relationships with its major foreign partners, and determine the immigration status of EU migrants currently working in the U.K.
At the company level, aftershocks from the Brexit vote are still being felt widely: Large banks, many of which run their European operations from London's Canary Wharf, are facing some of the biggest headaches.

The credit ratings agency Moody's warned that automakers, manufacturers and food producers in Britain could suffer from higher trade barriers and reduced volumes. It said increased regulatory risk would hit telecom firms, airlines and drug makers. House builders were tipped as big losers too. Analysts are worried that a sharp decline in consumer confidence will hurt home sales. Foreign buyers might also find London a much less attractive option for property investment.

The FTSE 250, which is made up of mostly mid-sized British companies, has plummeted by nearly 10% since the vote.
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Honest John

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Ixion said:


What a mess.
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We had an a la carte arrangement ffs.

No Euro, no Schengen, veto on further integration, arrangements to limit benefits. The last one wasn't even given a chance to be played out to see what effect it may have had.

We had a better deal than any other country in the bloc.


We will not get anything like that now.

Even if we go with membership of the EEA, we have to accept free movement, we will still have to pay the same as we were before for access to the market. So there won't be any £350m for the NHS.

We will gain some control over our laws but we will not have a voice at the table.

So the only plus is control over our laws and can anyone here tell me (apart from the obvious 'straight bananas' lunacy) how EU laws have been so bad for us that we needed to make a Biblical decision like this?
 
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afrocentricity

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Definitely a clash of ideologies... I can't for the life of me see why it's beneficial for the leavers to fcuk the economy and the poor people of UK in the hope of better.... What was it again?

Whereas they can't see why remainers would want to be cautious, and try and affect eu policy from within.

Had any poster on either side exhibited any form of regret in this thread? Not that I'm saying they should, I just find it surprising... Or maybe I don't the.
 

Adisa

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Anyone that bought the EU would give us single market without free movement is was deluded beyond belief.
 
Hollande seemed to suggest today that the status of Scotland within the EU could de discussed once UK triggers its Brexit talks

Adisa

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Honest John

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Adisa said:
Anyone that bought the EU would give us single market without free movement is was deluded beyond belief.
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Right. So two of three pillars of the leave campaign are shot to pieces and the other one is a lame duck.

1. We will not control our borders any more than we would staying in - in fact probably less.

2. We will not make £350m of savings to be distributed where we want - in fact we will be in deficit because of rising unemployment and interest rates.

3. We will be free of some EU legislation that used to be imposed - but if we want access to THEIR market we will have to play by THEIR rules and we won't have any say in what those rules are.

Utter madness.
 

Stanley Road

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rcoobc said:
If we lost the ability to reclaim VAT, then my job would probably go to Italy.
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I've been made redundant 3 times during my 17 years in Holland, each time i've bounced back. Twice the companies looked for cheaper labour. The last time it happened was 2013 and i even had to train some indian guys up to do my job. Shit happens in life, its not fun but i have found a better job since and twice i found job that i could start straight after the redundancy finished.
 

Regulus Arcturus Black

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Honest John said:
We will gain some control over our laws but we will not have a voice at the table.

So the only plus is control over our laws and can anyone here tell me (apart from the obvious 'straight bananas' lunacy) how EU laws have been so bad for us that we needed to make a Biblical decision like this?
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EU law is democracy at it's best in my opinion, I mean, is there anyone here that doesn't think the US would be better off deciding it's laws with 27 other nations rather than 1 selfish stupid clusterfeck of a congress?

And most law is at national level anyway so all a little silly to be honest, didn't stop half the country buying into the idea that 20 or so unelected blokes in Brussels had full control over 28 nations :lol:
 

Honest John

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Adisa said:
Brexit might not happen, according to John Kerry.
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We should stop fecking around and ditch it.

The government should sack the Eurosceptics, take its chances with the electorate and call a GE.

4 years in opposition is a price worth paying to get out of this in my opinion.

Though truth be told Labour couldn't beat them as things stand.

So they'll just be unpopular pariahs. What's new?
 

Classical Mechanic

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Honest John said:
We should stop fecking around and ditch it.

The government should sack the Eurosceptics, take its chances with the electorate and call a GE.

4 years in opposition is a price worth paying to get out of this in my opinion.

Though truth be told Labour couldn't beat them as things stand.

So they'll just be unpopular pariahs. What's new?
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EDL riots against the police. Should be worth it in the end.
 

rcoobc

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I think we should have a second referendum.

Choice 1) Remain in the EU
Choice 2) Leave the EU but keep immigration levels as they are now.
Choice 3) Leave the EU but reduce new immigration.
Choice 4) Leave the EU and kick all the non white-British people out.

First past the post.
 

fcbforever

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Honest John said:
Right. So two of three pillars of the leave campaign are shot to pieces and the other one is a lame duck.

1. We will not control our borders any more than we would staying in - in fact probably less.

2. We will not make £350m of savings to be distributed where we want - in fact we will be in deficit because of rising unemployment and interest rates.

3. We will be free of some EU legislation that used to be imposed - but if we want access to THEIR market we will have to play by THEIR rules and we won't have any say in what those rules are.

Utter madness.
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That's so glorious about direct democracy: it shows people are way too stupid to unterstand even basic concepts.
And it shows that normal people are even less inclined to think of others and outside their own little box than the politicians they are accusing this of could ever be.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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fcbforever said:
That's so glorious about direct democracy: it shows people are way too stupid to unterstand even basic concepts.
And it shows that normal people are even less inclined to think of others and outside their own little box than the politicians they are accusing this of could ever be.
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Funny thing is that a seasoned politician like Cameron did not understand democracy. It is evident that he was only thinking of his little box (of getting elected) and opened the pandora's box. It's now a stage when 'exiting EU' is seen as a victory on it's own with all the socio/economic/political ramifications wilfully ignored.
 

slig

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Classical Mechanic

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rcoobc said:
I think we should have a second referendum.

Choice 1) Remain in the EU
Choice 2) Leave the EU but keep immigration levels as they are now.
Choice 3) Leave the EU but reduce new immigration.
Choice 4) Leave the EU and kick all the non white-British people out.

First past the post.
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Choice 5) Remain in EU and kick all UKIP voters out.
 

M18CTID

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fcbforever said:
Of course I'm aware there is more production than demand. So, some countrys production is bound to fail eventually. Normally this would've happened already, the problem is countries like Venezuela are unable to do so because even at minimal profits, they need to keep going.
So you want to go back to a cartell that can just regulate prices at will. That is like telling, oh look, Ikea is producing too much furniture, let's get back to the times when we all had to pay 3 times the price for it just because!

Of course ist shit when your economical branch goes down. But please don't tell me you didm't know it wouldn't happen anyway. OPEC breaking down just fastened the process up. This has NOTHING to do with the EU, this has something to do with ending resources and the fact countries like Saudi Arabia are not willing anymore to finance Venezuelan social expenditures by artificially cutting their output down. If they can produce at this price while making a profit, they are free to do so in my opinion.

It' amazing really how you seem to be against foreign influence into your own countries economy while you want to tell other countries how to run theirs.
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What's more amazing is that you seem to think it's ok to tell people in other countries how to vote:lol:

Incidentally, I'm over in Munich in December for a few days so if you fancy a stein or 2 in the Augustiner-Keller just let me know - you can call it me doing my bit for the German economy ;)
 
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