I have not heard one sensible rational comment from any Brexiter yet, that includes before the vote and since the vote, not one single sensible reply.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
I agree. Experts came from all 4 corners of Britain saying that leaving the EU would be madness. Unfortunately they weren't listened to because they don't have funny hair or froggie eyes.
Murdoch has too tight a grip on this country. There is no way that Leave would have won without him. The Sun in the lead up to the vote was appalling, the first 8 pages were filled with anti immigrant sentiment when I picked it up about a week out.
Now Murdoch is 'delighted' and sees 'opportunities'.
Highly disturbing.
I don't agree. I don't think @Nick 0208 Ldn is anything like correct but his arguments are not ridiculous. He actually thought it through in a very interesting way even if I'm personally convinced he came to the wrong conclusions.
People like that Stanley guy with their "bloke in the pub said" arguments need to take a short walk off a tall cliff.
Above anything else, this is why I think Leave won.
http://i.imgur.com/XSHaeVl.jpg
When people are fed headlines like that every single day they start to believe it.
Polish shopkeeper in Leeds taken to hospital after ‘racially aggravated incident’
Polish shopkeeper in Leeds taken to hospital after ‘racially aggravated incident’
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....-after-racially-aggravated-incident-1-7987145
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....-after-racially-aggravated-incident-1-7987145
I'm not saying remain did not address it. I'm saying they didn't do it clearly enough. I've been listening several hours a day to BBC and Sky News during the last 12 months, and I've been reading a lot of English media outlets as my job requires it anyway. The emphasis of remain as I perceived it was on the economical consequences - without explaining properly why those consequences would occur. The terms of deals Norway or Switzerland have in place was in my view significantly under-addressed.
I fully agree however with your assessment of Sky News and their obsession with the coverage of Labour as well as the decrease of BBC's political coverage, TwoSheds.
Appalling.Above anything else, this is why I think Leave won.
When people are fed headlines like that every single day they start to believe it.
You do realise British politicians were pushing it and are the most americanophile in the process and leaving the EU will probably mean you will get a much worse deal, also because now you are a bit irrelevant to American trade interest?
It is the sentiment in many countries around Europe.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-continent-call-34-separate-referendums.html
(yeah, I know it is the mail but their numbers and graphics are from the PEW research, they also break it up nicely country by country.)
Funny how some of the Remain voters are now saying that everything the Leave campaign said was a lie or scaremongering. Sounds like you fell into the same trap of only listening to the likes of Farage - something that you're so quick to criticise a lot of Leave voters for by the way - when if you'd bothered to actually do any research you'd know that there were other facets to the Leave campaign. Here's a link to the Labour Leave campaign website below - perhaps each and every one of you pontificating on here and sneering down your noses at those of us that didn't listen to Farage when arriving at our decision would like to put the time and effort into trying to debunk every point made on the EU facts A-Z list. After all, some of you are hilariously claiming that everything the Leave campaign said is a lie:
http://www.labourleave.org/get-involved/#values
Curious DM article debunking claims house prices will fall, grocery bills will go up etc...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ne...-taxes-debunk-myths-plan-family-finances.html
This bit is weird- lists good things the EU did, but with the caveat we obviously made them better...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ne...-taxes-debunk-myths-plan-family-finances.html
This bit is weird- lists good things the EU did, but with the caveat we obviously made them better...
Tell you what fella, since you want to feck up my country why don't you tell me which of these claims you believe to be true and I'll tell you whether you're right.
Incidentally, the "Labour Leave" campaign was almost entirely funded by Tory donors.
I don't think Nick is an idiot or a racist but has been hoping and is still hoping something great is going to happen out of all this, but still have not seen how that is going to happen, if someone , anyone could tell me how this is going to be a benefit with serious rational argument then I'd welcome it but in the months leading up to the vote and since the vote ,there is still nothing that is viable in this real and not imaginary world
I don't know why I clicked that expecting to be presented with someone new, and not the same tired list of half-truths and bare faced lies as anywhere else.
Vodafone to consider HQ move after Brexit
Vodafone to consider HQ move after Brexit
https://next.ft.com/content/af2acfbc-5c1d-3888-8caf-6540d8be548d
Worrying
https://next.ft.com/content/af2acfbc-5c1d-3888-8caf-6540d8be548d
Worrying
Why do you think the UK will be in a better position to oppose TTIP and resist US pressure without the EU? The UK bravely opposing US interests isn't something we often witness.
You had the right to veto the thing while in the EU. Now you don't. Of course, after Cameron loudly backed TTIP, its opposition might actually regard Brexit as good news. Without the UK it might actually be more difficult for the US to push it through.
We won't be.
Nick's talking a load of rubbish.
We've managed to get ourselves into potentially the only situation possible where we could have TTIP foisted upon us.
And that my friends proves the point I was making about the narrative running right through this thread.
feck up your country? Jesus wept.
Mate I wanted the UK to remain but surely you have to accept people have the right to be disenfranchised with the EU. Yes it would be better if the UK stayed in but breaking away and renegotiating your relationship is a legitimate position to take; albeit a more moderate one than the guff spun by Farage and Co.
More racist attacks:
Walsall halal butcher 'flaming liquid' attack probed by police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-36652896
Polish shopkeeper in Leeds taken to hospital after ‘racially aggravated incident'
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....-after-racially-aggravated-incident-1-7987145
Walsall halal butcher 'flaming liquid' attack probed by police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-36652896
Polish shopkeeper in Leeds taken to hospital after ‘racially aggravated incident'
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....-after-racially-aggravated-incident-1-7987145
Just some small things.
#1 Animal welfare: Still, 70% of the pork imported to the UK will be produced under illegal circumstances in the EU. Your companies could have tried to import something else before, they didn't, they won't in the future. After all, it's not easy to find a fitting subsitution for 70% of imports.
The UK ban of intensive battery cages will be further ignored. You are not in the EU anymore after all.
#2 Common agricultural policy. It's more like 35%. And the reason the percentage is so high in comparison the others factions mentioned is the fact that the EU budget is really rather tiny. A similar budget with a 35% percent agricultur subvention in the UK would mean a subvention of 0.3% of the GDP into agriculture.
#3 common fisheries policy. That's hardly the EU's fault. Extensive fishing by British trawlers has been a major contributor. At last, Fish stocks are rising again because of regulations. Regulations you can't leavy anyway, no matter of you are part of the EU or not. Most of them are multilateral treaties between countries with North Sea boundaries.
#4 Costs. Alright, you don't have to spend that now. But you will spend something else when you want to enter the commom market again, most likely more than before.
And let's not get to that incompetence argument, it's a bit silly when it's told by Labour of all parties.
#5 Dumping. Do a minimum wage. Germany did as well. And don't you think companies would pay more to british workers when no others would be available. They won't magically get more profitable over night when there's Brexit-day. STUPID argument. Btw, you can't really exit the freedom of movement anyway if you wan't access to the common market. We've been there.
Oh, and about thee bailout options for countries in trouble: try talking about what the EU did NOT allow these countries. Because most likely, these woul have taken even more drastic dumping measures of they could've. And they would have just devalued there money, becoming more competetive overnight.
(I wonder of the people writing this shit have even basic understanding of economics.)
#6 Investment in the UK.
"The strong UK economy and a skilled workforce attract international companies to invest here – not our membership of the EU." Keep telling that to yourself.
"The Head of the world’s biggest car maker, Toyota has pledged to keep building cars here when we vote to leave the EU." Of course they will. Plant is already there. Question is whether they would build another one in the UK in the future. You know, investment.
Exports have fallen? Well somebody decided you don't need to produce anything when there is the City of London, hardly the EU's fault. Not driving your car producers in the ground with stupid workers rights policies might have helped as well, Labour.
#7 Trade deficit won't go away. You can't just shift imports, it's not a trade deficit with the EU, it's one per se, because, again, you don't have an industrial base anymore. Btw, a deficit isn't bad per se as well, if you have a strong 3rd sector in the country.
You wanna know why you have a trade surplus with the rest of the world? You don't have one with Japan, the US or China. The surplus comes because apart from the EU and those few developed countries, the rest of the world is still poor or emerging markets. They are dependent on western goods, nobody should be proud of having a trade surplus with Kongo.
Regarding 3m jobs in the UK depending on the EU and 5m jobs in the EU depending on the UK....5m out of how many people? And 3m out of how many again?
Yeah, stupid argument.
I could just go on and on.
Like, you really believe multinations won't dodge taxes anymore in Britain if you leave the UK? Think again. Norway voted against the EU? Of course they do, they give a rats shit about how much money they pay to the EU and how they have no say in it's processes. The country SHITS money. They can afford it. You can't
One of the more major lies: Less than 50% of exports to the EU. Well, yeah, technically true, but not if you count countries in Europe following EU regulations, like your beloved Switzerland. With them, it's still pretty much 50%.
We wont afford a tarrif war. We will just tell you what to do and you will do it.
Seriously, if that's what you based your vote on, I feel sorry for you.
Thanks Rory - good to see someone with a balanced view. FWIW, I was in the Remain camp at the start of the campaign but eventually switched over to leave. I'd say I was 60-40 in favour of leave at the time of the vote and this is the issue I think a lot of leavers and remainers had. Many of them were just on one side rather than the other but could see the pros and cons that of both remaining and leaving.
I do not disagree that people could feel disenfranchised by the EU, but if they give a legitimate reason why they feel disenfranchised by the EU, fair enough- but that's the point I'm making, where is this honest truthful reason - people accuse politicians of lying, fair enough, people lie also and are completely misinformed - not because the immigrants are taking all their jobs or the EU makes all Uk laws, it's blatantly untrue
Predictable and understandable. I've got a few friends in San Francisco and they're gleefully enjoying this. All the crap they get from the worlds press about Trump and the gun issues.
They've already began backtracking for half the things they promised so probably the next government(whatever it is) won't get along with them.
No it's not entirely what I based by vote on but at least you took the time out to read it - my point was that not everything coming from the leave side was lies and that there were other facets to the campaign too.
Re Norway - they're not shitting money as much as they were. It might've escaped your attention but 38,000 jobs in the oil and gas industry have been lost in Norway in the past few years and Norway is more heavily reliant on oil and gas than the UK. It's not the EU's fault that 38,000 jobs have been lost because it's down to circumstances beyond their control but the EU haven't done anything particularly pro-active in trying to alleviate the situation.
Much of everything else you state is just an opinion on how you think things will pan out - I respect that opinion but that's all it is. An opinion. No-one knows how it will turn out because there has been no previous precedent where a country has left the EU.
"We will just tell you what to do and you will do it." Is your name Jean-Claude Juncker?
I think you'll find that there will be negotiations and compromises on both sides - if you think the UK will just be "told what to do" then you really need to have a word with yourself.I voted Remain but I think you are deluded if you believe that. Several major European markets plummeted into bear market conditions after Brexit. The UK markets suffered but not as badly. Italy is close to a banking crisis and bailouts could be on the cards. Italy is responsible for one third of the Eurozone banking debt.
The British economy is comfortably better equipped to cope with this crisis than the Eurozone.
Add to that the rise of leave campaigns in other countries and I estimate the EU bargaining position as a lot weaker than you do.
Not to mention that America will be leaning on the EU to be sensible.
Great post, totally agreed
Yep and it's amazing to think someone who has done so much damage got into power first time around without even winning a majority. Think about that after a recession the opposition should have won by a landslide. And he couldn't even muster enough votes to get elected on his own without forming a coalition.
He only got re-elected on the back of promising this Referendum, which he completely misjudged and fecked up. And all that without even mentioning the damage he's done to the NHS, or the Austerity forced upon people over the last few years to preserve a AAA credit rating which is now down the shitter anyway.
Has to go down as the worst Prime Minister in modern history and a moron.
Exactly. There's so much to play out on this yet. Telling people that UK will just do as it's told is ignorant, arrogant, and naive. I think what we will see over the coming months is a more conciliatory tone from both the UK and the EU - it's not like Farage is going to be conducting negotiations
The treatment of Ireland by the EU would be reason enough alone to leave. We were completely shafted on the banking issue, whereby the EU essentially bullied us into not burning bond holders. As a small country we didn't have much choice but the way the EU imposed its will on this country after our bail out is evidence enough of just how the EU works. Our sovereignty was for all intents and purposes handed over. Britain is different, it can stand up to the EU and that's what your government should have done.
If Cameron has any balls he wouldn't have resigned on Friday. He would have used the result as a bargaining chip and gone back to the EU looking for real reform. Instead he's let the extreme right win. He's a coward. Cameron had the opportunity to force real change as a result of this referendum but he had wasted that chance. Now we will have the worst of both sides dictating the future of Europe.
There will be compromise whatever happens I'm sure.Exactly. There's so much to play out on this yet. Telling people that UK will just do as it's told is ignorant, arrogant, and naive. I think what we will see over the coming months is a more conciliatory tone from both the UK and the EU - it's not like Farage is going to be conducting negotiations
To be fair to the tories, they got a higher percentage of the vote than Labour did in 2005.
They almost got as many actual votes as Labour did in 2001 too although a big drop as a percentage (very low turnout in 2001).
They then secured an absolute majority of seats, increasing the number and percentage of voters, which is almost unprecedented.
I think you're basing too much on the strength of the UK economy, which is worth much much less without the EU. If the EU takes Scotland and Frankfurt takes the investment banks which is a huge possibility, the UK negotiating position is pretty fecked.
It's hidden behind a pay wall. Have you got a decent summary?
Scotland isn't going anywhere before we leave completely. Tusk refused to meet Sturgeon deeming it 'irresponsible'. Breaking up the UK only further inflames the issues across the world. Banks and businesses will be considering their options of course but making decisions before a clearer picture is presented would simply be stupid.
The Eurozone is failing currency, why would any business jump from a crisis zone straight into a worse one?
This link may work: http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/28/vodafone-to-consider-hq-move-after-brexit/
If not:
That headlines much worse than the article, they only say they're continuing to evaluate and currently can't draw any firm conclusions. It's quite routine for companies to consider relocations, for instance they've already moved a load of functions to Ireland so they could pay less tax.
It's blocked me now too annoyingly