Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[vidic blood & sand]

'The money saved from leaving the EU will result in the NHS getting £350m a week'

Random MPs have no authority to dictate where funds go. Everyone knows that. Can't you understand that is was simply a way of explaining the payments to the EU can be used elsewhere.

'A free-trade deal with the EU will be 'the easiest thing in human history'

Most leavers understood that compromise would be required to obtain a free trade arrangement, otherwise there would be no need for EU membership at all.

'Turkey is going to join the EU and millions of people will flock to the UK'

This is a future possibility, but even at the time it was debated. Hardly a lie.

'Brexit does not mean the UK will leave the single market'

We never were able to test the waters with the EU, because parliament and the media were so against leaving, and gaining a deal became paramount. The EU could just sit back and watch the country implode from within.

 

[dogrob]

Can this finally be over on Friday get the UK out with no deal enough is enough now.

 

[afrocentricity]

Today, on Groundhog Day.......

 

[vidic blood & sand]

@vidic blood & sand I'll ask again as you ignored it a few times yesterday

What was the brexit plan for the Irish border at the time of the vote?

Leading up to the referendum?

No one was saying that leaving the EU would be free of complexities, but the objective was to first get the right result, then deal with the entanglements.

 

[Silva]

 

[oates]

Random MPs have no authority to dictate where funds go. Everyone knows that. Can't you understand that is was simply a way of explaining the payments to the EU can be used elsewhere.

I'm sure this has been explained to others on here before but the UK does not “send” £350m a week to Brussels. The rebate won by Thatcher in 1984 is deducted first. This reduces our net weekly payment to around £250m. When EU spending in Britain is included – on agriculture subsidies, research and grants to poorer regions – the UK net payment comes down to about £160m a week. The government has proposed a labyrinth of post-Brexit customs and legal institutions which would swallow up some of the savings so it remains unclear just how much if any would ever have been available to go to the NHS.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Leading up to the referendum?

No one was saying that leaving the EU would be free of complexities, but the objective was to first get the right result, then deal with the entanglements.

Act first, think later! Except they still haven't got round to the think part.

 

[Kag]

The only people that (by and large) ever seem to advocate a no deal are people whom a no deal would not affect to any great degree.

A massive issue we have with the electorate is that it consists of millions of (formerly) working class people that have witnessed their personal wealth and assets increase throughout their adult life. The mistake they’ve made is believing that it was down to their own hard work and not circumstance and the wider economic growth.

It’s why the North of England voted to leave. It’s jam packed with largely successful people with their own trades and businesses. My dad is a perfect example. Comes from nothing, total grafter, earns very well on the railways and thinks we should just gerronwivit and take any economic issues on the chin. But he won’t be affected by economic problems. He’s flush.

I can sympathise with this delusion, to a certain extent. The poor people that vote for this, however. Well, they’ll be the first to blame the system when the Tories continue to decimate their existence in the coming years.

 

[Tarrou]

Leading up to the referendum?

No one was saying that leaving the EU would be free of complexities, but the objective was to first get the right result, then deal with the entanglements.

Okay so we agree then, there was no plan

 

[Silva]

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[vidic blood & sand]

Act first, think later! Except they still haven't got round to the think part.

If it's essential to have a free trade arrangement and stay in the CU and other stuff MPs are insisting on, the EU can just sit back and watch the clusterfeck and demand what they like.
The government didn't have the stomach for a no deal, and the EU knew it. A tougher stance would have seen the EU cave in.

 

[Red Viking]

With the money we pay the EU, it would be available for other things. However, it is down to an established government to make those decisions. Gove, johnson etc were just suggesting that the money could be used elsewhere. The NHS could certainly do with some of it.

You need to realize that much of the money that get send into the EU comes back in many ways like poorer regions like Wales gets more money than they give to help these regions develop economically amongst others. Also participating in shared programs like Euratom keeps the development costs of nuclear energy down as the development cost is shared with members rather than each country has to fully fund developing the same research. That the United Kingdom just sends a massive bag of money to Brussels is a big misunderstanding on how the economic system works between the EU and a individual country.

The accurate way to describe it would be being a member allows you to make more money within the EU s your trading terms is better when your a full member compared to a non member. The better the trading terms you have the easier it is to compete for businesses on either quality and quantity or price levels on the product you sell whether it is a service or goods like cars. If you leave the EU then your trading terms will worsen a lot and that means what you sell or buy will get more expensive both ways depending on the exact arrangements or trade agreements. The United Kingdom will lose business to other countries ( like the Nissan plant in Sunderland ) as a hard brexit would mean a lot of businesses there would not longer being able to compete on non member terms within the single market and thus losing money rather than acquiring more money in general.

 

[JPRouve]

If it's essential to have a free trade arrangement and stay in the CU and other stuff MPs are insisting on, the EU can just sit back and watch the clusterfeck and demand what they like.
The government didn't have the stomach for a no deal, and the EU knew it. A tougher stance would have seen the EU cave in.

Cave in to what, exactly?

 

[Cheesy]

If it's essential to have a free trade arrangement and stay in the CU and other stuff MPs are insisting on, the EU can just sit back and watch the clusterfeck and demand what they like.
The government didn't have the stomach for a no deal, and the EU knew it. A tougher stance would have seen the EU cave in.

No it wouldn't though - because no matter how tough a stance we'd have taken, the EU would've been aware we still didn't have the stomach for a no deal Brexit because it is literal self-destruction. Why do people continue to peddle nonsensical tripe like this?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Cave in to what, exactly?

That's what i was going to say.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Funny to see Brexiter MPs throwing their toys out of the pram regarding MEPs despite the fact that they voted down the withdrawal agreement.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

If it's essential to have a free trade arrangement and stay in the CU and other stuff MPs are insisting on, the EU can just sit back and watch the clusterfeck and demand what they like.
The government didn't have the stomach for a no deal, and the EU knew it. A tougher stance would have seen the EU cave in.

What do mean by tougher stance as well as caving in? There was only ever one WA and the FTA comes after not before the UK leaves.

 

[Ubik]

No it wouldn't though - because no matter how tough a stance we'd have taken, the EU would've been aware we still didn't have the stomach for a no deal Brexit because it is literal self-destruction. Why do people continue to peddle nonsensical tripe like this?

The modern day "lost cause".

 

[vidic blood & sand]

No it wouldn't though - because no matter how tough a stance we'd have taken, the EU would've been aware we still didn't have the stomach for a no deal Brexit because it is literal self-destruction. Why do people continue to peddle nonsensical tripe like this?

The EU doesn't want 'no deal' as much as the pro EU MPs. Do you seriously think this isn't the case?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Funny to see Brexiter MPs throwing their toys out of the pram regarding MEPs despite the fact that they voted down the withdrawal agreement.

I've had this impression for a long time that none of them really want to leave, because they are so scared of what the consequences will be and be blamed for.

 

[Phil]

God our MPs are unbearable, Europeans must pretty much hate us by this point.

 

[Infra-red]

God our MPs are unbearable, Europeans must pretty much hate us by this point.

I'm sure that ship sailed quite a while ago. We are an embarrassing mess.

As someone said the other day, this is surely the greatest peacetime humiliation in this country's history.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I know I am. This thread throws up a lot of humour from the institutionalized.

Oh the irony.

 

[Silva]

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[Minimalist]

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You'd honestly think the referendum result was a fecking 40% difference or something.

Nutcases, the fecking lot of them.

 

[horsechoker]

I'm sure that ship sailed quite a while ago. We are an embarrassing mess.

As someone said the other day, this is surely the greatest peacetime humiliation in this country's history.

Is Brexit more embarrassing than Suez was?

I can't think of another comparable post-War humiliation.

 

[Ubik]

Is Brexit more embarrassing than Suez was?

I can't think of another comparable post-War humiliation.

At least had the excuse of an imperial hangover for that.

 

[Silva]

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[Penna]

He's just a living parody of the hard Brexiteer. He's not any more harmful then the next hard Brexiteer, but at least he's at least funny.

Mark Francois was in the Territorial Army for 6 years in the 1980s, but talks as if he was a full-time regular officer for most of his career.

 

[Josep Dowling]

It's funny how riled the gammon gets when the table has turned.

(tongue also in cheek)

‘The gammons’, this is precisely it. You all seem to think you’re all intellectually superior just because you have a different political opinion. It’s actually embarrassing.

 

[Buster15]

He mostly did though. We went from 9.3% deficit in 2010 when he took over to 1.9 in 2017
He did it more by harsh austerity rather than growth, but he largely did it.

Source: ONS

And it was all worth it was it. Lack of police. NHS failing to achieve the the required metrics such as A&E waiting times. Schools having to beg parents for money etc.

 

[711]

He mostly did though. We went from 9.3% deficit in 2010 when he took over to 1.9 in 2017
He did it more by harsh austerity rather than growth, but he largely did it.

Source: ONS

Agreed. Leaving aside whether different policies would have worked better or not, the one he chose, austerity, worked in a raw sense. The thing to consider though is how unpopular it was, and it's here Remainers have missed the boat, they should have said again and again how seriously Brexit would reduce tax revenues from employers and employees and create the need for Austerity Two, austerity with knobs on. Unfortunately too many Remain supporters drifted off into childish bollocks about people being old and northerners and wanting the empire back, and the economic arguments have been hugely undersold.

As for May, does anyone think she actually wants an extension? I don't, I think she's just going through the motions so she can say she's tried, and another alternative to her deal is chalked off. She's still batting for her deal for me, right to the end.

 

[Silva]

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[Cheesy]

The EU doesn't want 'no deal' as much as the pro EU MPs. Do you seriously think this isn't the case?

They don't want no deal but it won't be anywhere near as damaging to them as it would be to us. They have reiterated, time and time again, that they aren't abandoning their fundamental four freedoms in order to placate us. This may be unnecessarily stubborn and may emphasise how the EU needs to get with the times, but it's also a stone-cold reality we've had to deal with for several years. Claiming they're going to renege on that is literal fantasy. However much the EU don't want a no deal they know it's far more destructive for us, hence any bluffing is either just that, or an indication our immense stupidity.

 

[Buster15]

With the money we pay the EU, it would be available for other things. However, it is down to an established government to make those decisions.
Gove, johnson etc were just suggesting that the money could be used elsewhere. The NHS could certainly do with some of it.

Suggesting. If you had listened to the promises and all the lies, there was no suggesting.
You don't drive a big red bus round the country with 350 millions for the NHS and then say, oh that. It was only a suggestion.

 

[Cheesy]

‘The gammons’, this is precisely it. You all seem to think you’re all intellectually superior just because you have a different political opinion. It’s actually embarrassing.

Does any Brexiteer in this thread actually make any arguments which relate to Brexit or do they just continually get pissy whenever anyone points out the ridiculousness of their logic and the fact that every argument they've made thus far has been discredited time and time again?

 

[oates]

Does any Brexiteer in this thread actually make any arguments which relate to Brexit or do they just continually get pissy whenever anyone points out the ridiculousness of their logic and the fact that every argument they've made thus far has been discredited time and time again?

None that haven't been de-bunked over a thousand pages ago.

 

[Minimalist]

‘The gammons’, this is precisely it. You all seem to think you’re all intellectually superior just because you have a different political opinion. It’s actually embarrassing.

We don't think it mate.

People like yourself read like children. That's the real embarrassment.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Agreed. Leaving aside whether different policies would have worked better or not, the one he chose, austerity, worked in a raw sense. The thing to consider though is how unpopular it was, and it's here Remainers have missed the boat, they should have said again and again how seriously Brexit would reduce tax revenues from employers and employees and create the need for Austerity Two, austerity with knobs on. Unfortunately too many Remain supporters drifted off into childish bollocks about people being old and northerners and wanting the empire back, and the economic arguments have been hugely undersold.

As for May, does anyone think she actually wants an extension? I don't, I think she's just going through the motions so she can say she's tried, and another alternative to her deal is chalked off. She's still batting for her deal for me, right to the end.

Economic arguments were the main (the only?) point of the Remain campaign and they fell on deaf ears. Partly because Brexit became a matter of cultural identity and partly because many Leavers thought they were economically fireproof (comfortablly off OAPs) or already so downtrodden that the risk of a further hit was worth taking (“your GDP, not mine” as that leave voter in some northern post-industrial town put it).

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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