I can't believe that the EU allowed the UK to drag it into this mess for so long.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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I do not believe many Brexit supporters have engaged any kind of rational reasoning to come to a decision. I think it is an emotional choice. This is not to say they are not capable of rational thought; just that they haven't used it in this case.
If nothing else, Brexit has revealed the dominance of emotion over calm, calculated reasoning. I think it is why the economic arguments fall on deaf ears.
The lesson is we have to figure out powerful enough ways to counter emotional arguments in important choices like refererendums, as it seems relatively easy to influence people's decisions via emotions.
I can safely say that I didn't have a clue about anything when I was 16. Although, tbf, I still don't.
When you are 16, you think you know about everything, but actually know nothing about anything.
As you get older, and have to work for a living and pay bills etc, you do find out about quite a few things, but look on in disbelief about what is going on around you and you can do nothing about it.
As you get older, and have to work for a living and pay bills etc, you do find out about quite a few things, but look on in disbelief about what is going on around you and you can do nothing about it.
Or you look on at a world that is changing around you that you increasingly don’t understand and there’s nothing you can do, until populists come along promising to turn the clock back to simpler times.
Why stop with old people? Let’s take the vote away from anybody with a disability or terminal illness because they won’t be able to enjoy the fruits of our genius. Anybody in low/unskilled work shouldn’t be allowed to vote either.
Given that it seems pretty likley we won't have a pm when the new parliament starts sitting and that when we do have a new pm it's likley to be johnson I think it's safe to say not only are negotiations over but any pretence of civility will go with it.
For sure though I don't see another extension for the EU to put up with farrage and negotiate with Johnson so at least it won't go on any longer.
Interesting line of argument but...
Where does that leave us on all the other important decision makers. Are we going to take the GP's licenses off them when they get into their fifties? How many consultants even make the top of their specialities in their mid thirties?
The real world evidence would suggest that in almost every other aspect of life we value experience very highly and the more important the repercussions of failure, the more we actively seek it out and are reassured by it. Do you think we are wrong to do so?
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something something secret brexiter
Totally agree with an upper age limit. Just like there will be exceptions to the rule with younger people who are advanced for their age and should be allowed to vote and can’t likewise with older generations there are a lot of people who can’t be trusted to make the right decisions as their brains aren’t quite with it.
I’d have as it as 16-70.
I’d have as it as 16-70.
Yeah I mean this can't go wrong at all.
The vote is needs to be lower to 16 but any other cut off point is beyond stupid.
Wrong how? You just set a final age limit just like you have a retirement age in regards to work.
People of all ages have to live within societies shaped by the politicians we choose, so I'm not in favour of age-restrictions.
Experience is over rated especially in novel situations. Look at silicon valley.
No taxation without representation.
I know a bloke called Peter File who says the same thing
True, but most situations are not novel and in my experience, experience is the least overrated thing.
I don't think how capable or otherwise older people are is really the question, as let's be honest they're only under attack in the first place because more than 50% of that particular category didn't vote the way some wanted. It's the categorisation itself that's wrong, just as it would be for women, blacks, gays or whatever, it's simply wrong to pigeonhole sections of society into categories instead of recognising them as individuals, each due the same respect as any other.
I don't mean this in a Farage opportunistic way but there does seem to be a lowering of belief in democracy. For each person now that wants to change the rules on age to get the result they want there's another in the wings waiting to say why should people who pay no tax get to vote, why should people not born in the country get to vote, why should someone without degree-level education get to vote, or maybe someone without children, because what real stake have they got in the future anyway?
I don't know if it's because democracy has been around long enough for us to take it for granted or to forget why it matters, but there seems to be a real risk belief is waning. The problem with losing it is that when it's gone it could be a long time gone, and that would be a greater threat to us all in the long run than any one particular vote now and how we rig it.
To those who are dreaming of taking away someone else's vote today I say beware, tomorrow it could be your own right that's under challenge.
I don't mean this in a Farage opportunistic way but there does seem to be a lowering of belief in democracy. For each person now that wants to change the rules on age to get the result they want there's another in the wings waiting to say why should people who pay no tax get to vote, why should people not born in the country get to vote, why should someone without degree-level education get to vote, or maybe someone without children, because what real stake have they got in the future anyway?
I don't know if it's because democracy has been around long enough for us to take it for granted or to forget why it matters, but there seems to be a real risk belief is waning. The problem with losing it is that when it's gone it could be a long time gone, and that would be a greater threat to us all in the long run than any one particular vote now and how we rig it.
To those who are dreaming of taking away someone else's vote today I say beware, tomorrow it could be your own right that's under challenge.
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But that's because we've decide there is a limit to long how someone should have to sell their labour as a means of surviving. Them not being in work anymore shouldn't stop them from having the right to vote. Plus people in retirement are still going to be effect by political choices yet they would have no say in these choices(Pretty much my reasoning as to why prisoners should have the right to vote).
Also how we would decide if someone ''can't be trusted to make the right decisions as their brains aren’t quite with it.' ? Some form of test ? Who gets to decide and
administer this test ? Or is it just a straight cut of point at 70 ? Which seem like just punishing people for being old(Bernie Sanders for example is 77 and far more informed and knowledgeable then most of us)
There just a million way it can and will go wrong(Not to mentioned we would have created a great bureaucratic state program who's goal is to decide who does and doesn't get the vote)
I'm I right in thinking EU workers(Not including Ireland) can't vote in UK general elections ?
Good post.
Brexit: Endgame - The Hidden Money, with Stephen Fry
Who is eligible to vote at a UK general election?
To vote at the UK general election you must be registered to vote and:
- 18 years of age or over on polling day
- be a British, Irish or qualifying Commonwealth citizen
- be resident at an address in the UK (or a UK citizen living abroad who has been registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years)
- not be legally excluded from voting
- members of the House of Lords
- EU citizens (other than UK, Republic of Ireland, Cyprus and Malta) resident in the UK
- anyone other than British, Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens
- convicted persons detained in pursuance of their sentences, excluding contempt of court (though remand prisoners, unconvicted prisoners and civil prisoners can vote if they are on the electoral register)
- anyone found guilty within the previous five years of corrupt or illegal practices in connection with an election
If you are a UK citizen living abroad, you can apply to be an overseas voter.
You must have been registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years and be eligible to vote in UK Parliamentary general elections and European Parliamentary elections.
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No they cannot but they have a vote at home and so a government to represent their interests.
The age limit on voting would leave those over that age paying tax with no one to represent theirs.
Cheers.
70?
With the retirement age being 68, 2 years later you have become a dribbling wreck already?
With the retirement age being 68, 2 years later you have become a dribbling wreck already?
People who were thick and xenophobic when they were 20 are still thick and xenophobic when they're 80.
People who were intelligent and not xenophobic when they were 20 are still the same when they're older
Barking up the wrong tree.
People who were intelligent and not xenophobic when they were 20 are still the same when they're older
Barking up the wrong tree.
You're right and the age argument is nonsensical - yes, older folk were more likely to vote Brexit, but the stats showed that people with a low level of education were also more likely to vote Brexit. This is the third time I've posted this on this thread, so apologies, but it's revealing.
I think the age limit thing has weight if we are talking about once in a lifetime, generational votes, which Brexit was billed as. If a vote has the possibility of being once every 50 years, I don't think its wrong to think about excluding old people (80 year old plus). This is different to general elections where basically everyone will have to live with the consequences as the time period is significantly shorter (5 years).
Age has feck all to do with it. My mother in law is in her 70s and she’s an ardent remainer.
On the other side I’ve seen more ignorant posts and comments from young people who have been sucked in by the nationalism. It’s disheartening that they are incapable of seeing through lies.
On the other side I’ve seen more ignorant posts and comments from young people who have been sucked in by the nationalism. It’s disheartening that they are incapable of seeing through lies.
The older generation should always have a right to vote on issues that will affect their children and grandchildren. Them making the stupid decision doesn't change that. Maybe if remain had put as much effort into getting the older vote as leave did, we wouldn't be discussing this in the first place.
Polling and votes show the complete opposite.
That's an anecdotal example. As Sweet Square said the polls show support for Brexit increases amongst older generations.
As does anybody who reads the Daily Mail.
Other factors play in with age as well such as wealth, home ownership, country vs city, 20% of British asians voted for Brexit, etc. Brexit is so tricky as it's not like the trump vote which consistent most of middle class white racists, white old people and a tiny part of the white working class(Not to forget the trump vote lost the popular vote), Plus the debate around Brexit is pure cultural war, most people have no idea why they are Remain or Leave other than moral values.
We wouldn't have any of these problems if we had Blade runner the UK during the New Labour days and turned it into one massive city.
Quite agree.
I would also include the wisdom of life in this.
In many countries, age is seen as something to be respected because with age becomes wisdom.
Now. I realise that we should be careful not to generalise but the wisdom of life is very much overlooked in the UK.
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The trail of laughter following him really amplifies this whole situation
While it was funny, I think the people throwing milkshakes at these guys is only going to fuel support for Farage and the likes.
To me it seems like people think they can throw stuff at these guys because they're stupid. Calling or implying people are stupid never comes across well.
To me it seems like people think they can throw stuff at these guys because they're stupid. Calling or implying people are stupid never comes across well.
Was it from Burger King?EDIT: It was a Five Guys Banana and Salted Caramel Milkshake
The guy's name is being plastered all over Twitter (I obviously won't be doing the same). Hopefully he doesn't face any violent repercussions.
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The trail of laughter following him really amplifies this whole situation
Nah it worth doing.
These right wing cnuts have going around pretending speak for a large section of the country when it fact they are nothing more than a fringe group of bell ends.
It's great to see some push back.
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Is the person going to get 28 days in prison just like the person who egged Corbyn?