Yes, but if you take Leavers to be about 50% of the population and then guesstimate that about a quarter of Remainers want to honour the 2016 result, that's 60%+ wanting to stay on the current course.
There has apparently been a fair bit of polling on this and it's absolutely not clear cut. Unsurprisingly the answer depends on the phrasing of the question. At any rate at no point has 60+% been found to want to stay on the current course.
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This is just what the politicians have been telling us, as part of their agenda.
Doubt it'd close the argument at all. Because whatever version of leave happens its going to require years of future negotiation with the EU and will result in economic slump both immediately and over the longer term. Can't see the debate going away.
The negotiations for the withdrawal agreement that will not be renegotiated.Hunt saying he'll take DUP and ERG into negotiations. Good lord
There are? I've never met anyone in favor of remain who thinks this.
It's not that crazy if you think about it. TM negotiated then presented what she'd got only for all and sundry to bin it. Involving the main detractors in the negotiations will either give them ownership of whatever comes out or at least some real understanding of the EU's stance.Hunt saying he'll take DUP and ERG into negotiations. Good lord
What negotiations? We are expressly forbidden to attempt any further negotiations re the WA, under the terms of the last A50 extension.Hunt saying he'll take DUP and ERG into negotiations. Good lord
You've not met the wrong people yet.
Not to mention falling food standards, healthcare privatization and American style health insurance
Most EU countries have some form of privatization in healthcare. I see NL is top of this list and it's not free. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Europe#Healthcare_rankings
How does healthcare work over there then?
Yes its a possibility, I can't see any new Tory Party leader going into any possible new negotiations on their own they will need representatives from both wings of the Party and its natural allies. May broke that particular 'do it my way' mould already, and went down in flames on her own, also remember as far as the EU's concerned the withdrawal agreement is done and dusted. Hence if by some miracle the EU decides to renegade on its promises to the 27 other nations and agree to some further negotiations, then there will have to be a joint negotiating team of some sort for the Tories, or its a straight ' No deal'.Hunt saying he'll take DUP and ERG into negotiations. Good lord
I think you've just summarised why the UK will leave with no deal in October.
I've had a lot of social contact today and several people held this view. I find it interesting that some say they haven't heard it before, it implies a quite restricted social circle and lack of media variety.
I pay about 180EU per month health insurance, this is mandatory. 7.5% is also stolen from your salary each month for National Health Insurance. All bills are covered by this pot but there is around 375 per year excess payment if you use the health service. At the end of the day, the sick and poor get punished still but the service is amazing. Even if you are on the dole like myself, you still have to pay health insurance each month.
Lets be honest - a huge portion of the electorate are pretty ignorant in every election on every side*. Most people vote on a mixture of gut instinct, vague ideology, who their friends/family vote for, the charisma of the leader and who they think will give them the biggest free lunch. If we re-ran every vote due to the ignorance of the electorate then we'd have a vote every single week. Half of my family are still voting Labour because of Margaret Thatcher who hasn't been alive for 6 years and hasn't been in office for 29 years. They literally couldn't name a single specific policy.
This is a fairly shite defence though - a stupid person who votes for something harmful and bad is objectively doing something worse than someone uninformed who votes for something mundane and not harmful. The stupidity of Brexit shouldn't be excused by the fact that not everyone who voted Remain was perfectly informed. Especially now considering it's either a devastating No Deal or Remain - any hopes of a sensible, reasonable compromise appears to be off the table.
Yes, I think you are right. The time to revoke A50, (which for Remain was the only way out) was the 29th March. I honestly believed May would go down as a hero to 'remainers' by revoking A50 at the last minute, thereby ensuring her legacy (with at least half the country) as she then fell on her sword. However May clung on to some remote idea that, with their backs to the wall everyone would not want a 'no deal' and so then eventually, holding their noses they would accept the WA; but alas for Theresa, she doesn't know the British as well as she thought and her parliamentary colleagues knew them too well. There is no way the WA agreement in its present form will be accepted, even if it means a no deal exit and for any anyone fondling thinking a second referendum would sort this out the writing was on the wall.
I told the remainers I wanted UK democracy back but they keep changing the subject by telling me I'm "racist", or "stupid". Remainers had nearly 45 years to reform EU by introducing democratic decision making and accountability. They're not even interested in talking about it. EU will go the way of old European Empires, Austro-Hungarian Empire in particular. Of course nationalism killed it, but nationalism can be understood as a proxy for democratic desire. In both cases: "we don't want to be ruled by alien elites who show us contempt" and never take our views into account.
I mean if you think about it...it really is. The ERG and DUP are not main parties they do not represent the UK they're radical fringe elements, the way for them to input is via westminster and they've already made their desires very clear.
Changing the topic again, and introducing a Nirvana fallacy. Because (1) the topic of conversation is the EU democracy, not UK. (2) Because the perfect or unobtainable, should not be the enemy of the possible.
A government that coerces the electorate to vote with them through empty threats of taking their hard earned money or worse is far more dangerous than one who promise rainbows and puppy dogs tails. Firstly because the latter is easily disproved through a small amount of research and secondly because the electorate hear tales of a fairytale land at every election; whether that be the golden land of nationalisation, tax & spend politics on one side or the golden land of deregulation, low taxes and free markets on the other.
Actually I don't think it will. Its true the comfort zone for the UK surrounding being 'in' the EU will have gone and that will have repercussions of itself. The UK will however have £39B to hand over, (which it will have to do, maybe have to pay even more than this sum for the 'ideal trade deal' ) but this time some of the 'strings' will be able to be attached by the UK, which they couldn't do before. The EU could not without tearing itself apart make any further concessions whilst the UK was part of the Union, but now proper negotiations can take place. There will of course be some more 'sabre-rattling' (both sides) about the NI/Eire border and this issue cannot be ignored because of the GFA, but again both sides will have a freedom they didn't have before especially, if Stormont is back up and running and there is a legitimate voice speaking for the whole of the province, which the last poll (EU) seems to suggest the Alliance party is making some headway. Indeed of all the new and smaller parties making a breakthrough in these EU elections, the advances of Alliance Party in NI may be the one that last longest and has most long lasting effect. There could even be an enormous boost to peace, if both sides could decided their joint economic future together, through their own Government?
Their plan appears to be the free marketeers dream of a deregulated Singapore-on-Thames offshore haven with a privatised NHS and corporation tax rates of 10% (plus a big trade deal with the Donald).
Pretty much.
Reads like wishful thinking to me. Why would the EU be freer to make concessions than they are now? It’d be in the interests of both sides to make a deal but the EUs leverage would be even greater. Imagine the UK negotiating with emptying shelves, huge queues at Dover, a possible run on the pound, massive politicial pressure... and much of the EU keen for Britain to learn some lessons about fecking with an economic superpower.
Never understood how (a) they think there is any appetite for this in the UK (b) why they think Singapore is any kind of a model for us, I mean Singapore sits at the nexus of SE Asia’s major trade routes, as SE Asia gets richer so does it. More likely we end up like Vienna, cut adrift as trade routes evolve. (c) how they think there is a political settlement which will allow anything like it. It was only 52/48 and quite clearly it’s not settled especially given demographics.
They ought to look at the extreme wealth inequality that exists in Singapore before dreaming about it´s economy as the ideal economic framework. Singapore is great if you only look at it superficially but deeper down it is less so.
I totally agree that a remain programme which did not recognise the pressures that led to Brexit would be unviable. But pressing for change as the EU level also would need to be accompanied by changes at the UK level. The UK is no poster child for democracy itself, frankly, and arguably many of the problems we blame the EU for are completely home grown.
We already have a Singapore in the UK, it is called London.
Indeed, there's no democratic mandate for a hard Brexit - I doubt very many of the people who voted Brexit had 'no deal' in mind. I don't suppose that will matter much to Johnson/Raab/McVey.
I somehow doubt that extreme wealth inequality is something which keeps Rees-Mogg et al awake at night - they know which end of it they will find themselves on. A 'new Singapore' has been their wet dream for years.
