I think you were a little generous with the labour leave but, but essentially yes. It's a quagmire.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Well, usually the status quo changing option, usually is more frenzied and they have an advantage in referendums as they mobilize more. That is the theory behind the leave winning 3 years ago. But now is the remain the one that is challanging the status quo, as the article is triggered. If afte all that happened, the remain is not frenzied, that option does not deserve a second referendum IMO. Leave won and I really thought remain had a dormant ample majority, but after 3 years, nothing indicates that remain would turn the tables enough as it would be so tight that leavers would ask for a third referendum (if actually remain would win that I have serious doubts now).
Farage is a despicable cnut and after all his lies and his low charisma, he still that big turn out.
Its worth pointing out that online petition got more signatures than the brexit party got votes. Plus remain parties performed better than brexit parties. Plus voting for meps doesn't change anything. And the turnout was shite anyway.
The brexit bunch are worse than ever because they want their fecking brexit and see it as some sort of awful injustice that it hasn't fecked the country to oblivian yet.
And besides people get too hung up on the words second refurendum. Thats not what it would be. First was about leaving yes or no. Second would be how do we do that now we can see what a fecking disaster it is (or do we just feck the whole thing off as a mistake).
Would point out we originally entered the EEC in 1973 without even holding a referendum. This, after the winning Tory manifesto of 1970 saying it was only their intention to “negotiate” becoming members. “No more, no less”.
Furthermore, no referendum since then on any of the major changes, eg Maastricht & so on.
I’m not sure the democracy argument is such a dumb one, tbh.
Well I disagreed with the referendum in the first place. Theres no way the general public (including me) were knowledgeable enough about the EU to make an informed decision. We live in a parliamentary democracy for a reason.
Turkeys do indeed vote for Xmas, they did in June 2016 , they just don't realise it .The oven hasn"t been lit yet.
The salaries of the average guy in malta hasn't increased though. Rent did and so did construction works
Tax harmonisation is a risk now that the UK is leaving
It did increase for high skilled jobs like IT, legal and financial services but you're right on the other hand, overall I'd say salaries decreased for low to average skilled jobs as employers are finding cheaper alternatives.
So you live in malta mate?
Currently yes.
Labour have now shifted their position to back a 2nd referendum.
About time. Hope we get one.
Good. I live here too. If you need any help please let me know
I think Malta standard of living had declined. Sure there is more money but that's all. There's too much construction going on, too much traffic, too much people, too much pollution and rent went up. We are having people sleeping on the streets which we haven't seen since the empire's time
On top of that xenophobia is on the rise fueled by a mix of things which include overpopulation, bad management etc. I don't blame the EU for it but our government who bend over backwards to the powerful construction lobby. Oh well
Forgive my ignorance but does this mean they’ll have the numbers to block a no deal scenario, or is that just their position?
Thanks for the offer! I can see that. Somehow everything is being blamed on foreigners rather than actually blaming the real problem.
I, like I reckon many am looking to vote outside the big 2 next election. A new likeable leader might swing me to lib dems rarher
Probably too little too late for this current Labour party.
Pretty much this. Should just get the bloody thing done with a promise of a new referendum in like 3 years time, at which stage I think a remain vote would win.
To cancel it now would be anarchy.. and if you grant another vote before we leave it also creates another problem as all the Brexiteers will be wanting another vote should remain win.
It's shitty but it's done, needs to get done and dusted and then revisted in the near future.
True. However somethings are infuriating. Malta is the only country I can think of were locals have to switch language to get served. Also the patronising way some expats comment about anything local is a bit over the top. I left an expat group cause I was shocked by the constant insults.
Anyway the locals are usually alot of bark but no bite. Our only RR party just got the best result ever ie just 3 % of the vote
I know a remainer tory. He thinks Corbyn is a communist and would never vote for a left wing Labour Party.
You don't know me, do you?
McDonnell is definitely a Marxist, though.
Seriously though, where does it leave people like me, who don't agree with the aims of the other political parties, but can not stand the possibility of Brexit.
I voted LibDem in the Euro elections, despite finding them abhorrent for the way they changed their tune as soon as they smelled power, as part of the coalition.
They will side with whoever enables them to get into Government.
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Did his party stand at the last EU election?
This is from the Express so it could well be bullshit but the BBC and all the reporting I have seen about the French EU election is going with Macron snubbed by French voters and Merkle as well in germany.
"Mr Macron said in a statement there was “some disappointment” that his party had lost first place in the polls to Ms Le Pen.
Ms Le Pen’s group was still jubilated to win, despite the slight decrease in votes.
According to Politico, Jordan Bardella, from the RN, said: “The French people have clearly punished the president tonight, and taught him a lesson in humility.
"Tonight, it’s him and his policies who have been rejected.”
He added: “The European Union defended by the president of the republic is disavowed tonight."
Mmmm.
It looks like their policy is to abandon plans to force a GE so they don’t have to negotiate anything.
They will however give the Tories any votes they need to approve their deal on the basis it gets ratified by the people in a second referendum.
It’s a clever move politically as right now they are not going to force a GE nor win one. They can however weaken the Tories by pushing for a 2nd referendum. If Remain wins, the Tories are finished for a good few years. If Leave wins, Labour are no worse off and can campaign on the work they did to get a deal through parliament and let the people confirm their choice, regardless of what any Leave voter will tell you about their thoughts on second referendums now, if they get a second referendum and win, it’ll be the best thing ever for them.
From a Remain perspective, as long as it’s not a No Deal Brexit that is forced by the people’s vote, I also think that a second referendum and Leave win would not be the worst thing to happen. It would close the debate shut and us Remainers would have to lump it and look for the positives. This argument rumbling on for years and years giving a forum to Farage, Robinson and co is a disaster.
No the party didn't exist in 2014. Picked up seats from various parties.
Le Pen was 4 seats ahead of the 2nd place UMP (Toryish) in 2014. So her lead has been clawed back.
Also she no longer wants to leave the EU nor the Euro, just doesn't like foreigners. They have no real policy other than hatred. Hopeless woman.
She has to say something, usually it's a load of crap but hoovers up the xenophobe and racist votes.
All the other Eurosceptics had disastrous results. Also Le Pen is in a the nationalist group of parties which is quite small in the EU parliament.
The party was created in 2017 just after the presidential election.
SO Bascially, lowering taxes benefits mostly the rich and punish the average Joe. Who c would thought something like that happening!
Tax harmonization, tobin tax and the likes, is the best that could happen to the European union. Nowhere to hide for the big corporations. Sure some territories would feel the negative effects. Like other territories would feel the positive effects. SO overall, would balance out. But what it would increase is more money collected in taxes, that could be used precisely on those territories that could feel the negative effects (while others, repeat, they would feel the positive ones)
All what you point out it might or not be true till a certain point (of course, facts are true), but still, I am of the opinion that remain should shown as a much clearer option with all the opportunities that they had to make themselves hear. I don't see a clear majority of remain after 3 years in anything that could be quantifiable. And I repeat: CLEAR majority. The only thing I see is mocking Farage the same way Trump was mocked and we can see that it has no effect on their base. The best it can happen is that A50 can be extended over an over till the older genereation die and the youger one can vote.
We voted for a shit sandwich and now we have to eat it.
I reckon we'll need to endure a decade of general hardship, massive deregulation of the financial sector, widening wealth inequality and a breakup of the UK before we come to our senses and rejoin the EU.
I reckon we'll need to endure a decade of general hardship, massive deregulation of the financial sector, widening wealth inequality and a breakup of the UK before we come to our senses and rejoin the EU.
i'm not too sure, but it's clear that they're position needs to change if they are to reconnect with their core supporters. The thing is i'm not sure whether to applaud their willingness to change their minds or be concerned that the media and tory hardcore will use it to hammer them.
Unfortunately if we rejoin we will be at the bottom of the heap with loads of conditions and the hardships will not suddenly go away.
A redo as distasteful as it may seem is the only way.
I can't see how a second referendum will happen before a Brexit.
Leavers don't want it, and a sizeable chunk of Remainers don't want it either. That's well over 50% no matter how you spin it.
We have to get to the end of this journey before we start another one. There's simply not enough will to do a u-turn.
it's a tough one, i want to remain personally but if it went to a second referendum the country will be in a state of crisis, especially if remain won.
Really? I can't wrap my head around the idea people think we won't be an actual state of crisis if we leave.
Sorry i was purely thinking domestically. i think we are seeing a more vocal right wing and with various politicians speaking openly about a second referendum being bad for democracy i can foresee riots and other unpleasantness. Having said that if we leave i can foresee recession and general misery everywhere. I basically think we have put ourselves in a lose/lose situation.
Let's do a 2nd referendum on rejoining on the same terms 1 second after no deal.
Hopefully the EU accepts that.
What?
Even amongst those that want to stay a part of the EU, there's not a universal appetite to have a second referendum. There are a lot of people who feel it would undermine British Democracy and set a dangerous precedent if the 2016 result were thrown away and ignored.What?
Nothing is universal, but amongst remainders, it’s pretty clear that a 2nd referendum is much more preferable than crashing out
You got stats to back up what you're saying?