Very well thank you - how are you? I took a job as a civil servant trying to make a success out of Brexit. Turns out I walked into the clusterfeck of all clusterfecks. Who could have guessed?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Internal Market Bill published: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0177/20177.pdf
Important text:
Important text:
So as expected, the Bill allows a Minister to make secondary legislation to disapply the Withdrawal Agreement's provisions on customs arrangements between Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain, allows for the UK to disapply the state aid provisions found in the Withdrawal Agreement, and states that no dispute caused by these provisions can end up in EU courts.
Even though in the Withdrawal Agreement the UK agreed that any dispute over the WA would be adjudicated by the Court of Justice of the European Union.
What is more, clause 45(2)(a) states:
Even though in the Withdrawal Agreement the UK agreed that any dispute over the WA would be adjudicated by the Court of Justice of the European Union.
What is more, clause 45(2)(a) states:
This is concerning, for the simple reason it sets the legal precedent that any statute law can be immune from challenge in the courts simply because Parliament wills it. It runs roughshod over judicial review. Although, perhaps that was the point?
Very strange. Will all governments from now on just write at the end of each bill 'this is not to be regarded as unlawful'? Makes a mockery of the whole thing.
Ha, ha... the sort that clears the nostrils and the head and allows you to recognize that a government with an 80 seat majority can do almost anything it wants ...and will!Tweet
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Is Agent Johnson determined to destroy the UK with the Brexiteers cheering him on?
feck knows what Ireland are supposed to do if the UK goes ahead with this stupid plan.
Even more to the point what is the UK supposed to do if the UK goes ahead.
Technically I think they are supposed to Build hard border infrastructure to protect the integrity of the single market?
Not that they will and boris knows it
Worst breakup ever.
I had completely forgotten this was still happening Hardly anything in the news for months and months.
I had completely forgotten this was still happening
Hardly anything in the news for months and months.Pretty much, the whole thing is fecking ridiculous. They keep digging the hole deeper and deeper.
The UK is circling the drain, but will we drag Ireland down with us?
I see we timed this in the middle of the talks about level playing fieldTweet
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I'm sure barnier and frosts meeting tomorrow will be short and shit
No, I don't think the EU would allow it. They would spend whatever is needed to secure the Irish economy for two reasons - one, to show smaller states that the Union is not going to be about what France and Germany want, and two - to secure the bonds between EU member states, and to show that the EU's longer-term security is more important than being bullied into a trade deal by the UK.
Agreed, but this already happens in the EU, e.g the dumping of steel by China.
Most countries support either directly or indirectly their various industries that allow them to keep what they see as 'vital' industries going, for all sorts of reasons; security, militarily, market presence, over production, technological benefits, etc. the so called level playing field is a myth, 'protectionism' is what it should be called out as. Until both sides in the Brexit debate begin to talk in straightforward language nothing will get decided, because in many case effectively they are talking to the back of the heads of the other side.
The lack of leadership and responsibility Boris and his cabinet take is shocking. It's such a mess, the future is so murky at the moment. The lack of clarity on future trade in Ireland worries me. It's not something that people should take lightly either. I never thought I would like a leader as much as Trump, Boris is a buffoon.
So your example is with a country that doesn't have an FTA with the EU?
The EU will protect Ireland, the integrity of the single market is paramount. Ireland has 26 mates, I was finding it difficult to see how the UK functions post the transition period (even with some kind of deal) but if this transpires my circuits will have blown.
This doesn't really make sense as politics for an internal audience. You can only assume they're looking to force the EU into action that allows no deal to be presented as forced upon us.
Scrambling to save face in the midst of disaster.
Scrambling to save face in the midst of disaster.
The thing that I don't get is that, this move will make every other negotiations incredibly difficult. In general trade negotiations are long and tedious but here every other country will demand extra guarantees and protections because the UK can't be trusted.
I think it's more ill-conceived brinkmanship and trying to threaten a kind of mutually assured destruction if the EU don't agree to a FTA on the terms Britain wants.
Varadkar said today:
I can't see it helping the negotiations in the slightest.
The EU introduced tariffs on a sudden excess of Chinese/Indonesian/Taiwanese steel imports between 2018 and 2019 as did the USA. The UK hardly uses state aid, they can use it in certain circumstances under EU and WTO rules. Brexiteers like WTO rules, if only they knew what they were.
Don't think the talks will go on much longer if UK pull this stunt.
Protecting the integrity of the single market, while also protecting Ireland, will be a pretty difficult thing to achieve if the UK decides to go full rogue state and not implement the WA border or customs controls between the UK and NI.
Haha owned
Do you think that NI could be the ones going rogue against Westminster? We have talked about it in the past and most irish thought that it wasn't an option but it has been 3-4 years now.
If the UK go full rogue state they will be paralysed, they need agreements to fly planes, move ships, road travel and so on. Brexiteers wanted to be self-sufficient.
The EU will have powers under the WA to impose tariffs on UK imports and exports if the UK does not adhere to the Agreement.
I suspect that would be the way forward to try and bring the UK back into line with its international law commitments.
As stupid and incomprehensible as it is, if I were the EU or Ireland, I wouldn't rule out the UK doing anything at this point and would be preparing for the worst. No matter how insane it might sound. We have morons in charge.
Yes, I just don't see how they properly implement, collect or police those tariffs if there's an open border between NI, UK and EU.
But the point of the modification is surely to ignore that. At least that's the speculation that I made yesterday otherwise it's just a stupid move.
Yes for sure. Although they are protected from the real world with the transition period. Come next year the enthusiasm may have dampened a bit, the next few months could be a bit tricky with the lunatics running the asylum.
I guess the leaked EU cables in that Guardian article linked just before give the answer to one of the questions:
So they're out to create that division between the EU as a whole and its individual members. I suppose the comment about Barnier's position then also serves to undermine him rather than being based on anything real. That won't affect the EU delegation, since they appear to be seeing through the UK's strategy pretty well; so I guess this is simply all part of the Tories' media strategy to convince people in the UK that the EU is a mess, are acting in bad faith, and that therefore any problems coming out of all this are their fault.One of the EU Cables said:
In practice, it will probably be targeted tariffs, focusing on goods which are not produced in Northern Ireland (of which there are a few). This would include high-value goods and services, possibly a lot focusing on the City of London, as well as goods like Stilton or North Sea fish which the UK values highly even if proportionately they are not worth a lot in trade terms. This would put the squeeze on the UK Government whilst leaving NI (hopefully) free of tariffs.
The UK had an overall trade deficit of -£72 billion with the EU in 2019. A surplus of £23 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£95 billion on trade in goods.
Collecting them would be straightforward - just do not allow any of those goods into the EU without the tariffs being paid.
The UK Government could try to circumvent this by moving all goods through NI, into Ireland and then on to the rest of the EU, but this would add greatly to the length of the supply chain and would impact businesses.
It would also be possible to impact the UK's services exports. Unlike goods trade, services are not restricted by tariff barriers and border checks. Instead, national regulations – on licensing, quotas, professional qualifications and immigration – decide when and how foreign providers are allowed to enter a market. Such non-tariff barriers (NTBs) are complex and hard to assess as they vary by sector and by activity. But there is nothing to prevent NTBs being set up.
I am simply pointing out that across the world all countries seek to protect what they see as their vital interests, including the EU and the UK. In most cases this amounts to protectionism of some kind for certain industries /services and the only way to try to create a so called level playing field is via some form of protectionism that stops others entering your market, whether that be on price, on quality, on health & safety whatever reasons, your level playing field only relates to those things you want it to relate to, and to those countries you want to do business with and its effectively a quid pro quo arrangement.
However in essence this is nothing new in various forms it has existed almost since the first trade deals were ever struck. A 'level playing field' implies some kind of 'fairness' exists, but only to those deemed eligible to enter 'the field' You ask some of the third world countries what they think about 'level playing fields'.
If you are a small country but relatively prosperous, say like Ireland, and already on the field, then clearly you would be mad to want to leave/alter the field . If however you are a large country, but impoverished and can't get on to the field, or even be allowed in some circumstances to approach the gate to the field, then you want to look to somewhere else to do business. This is where the UK will want to seek alternative business outside the EU, so why should it be a threat to the EU? The only reason being that the UK would now be perceived as a threat to the protectionism of EU, even when it would be dealing with countries who are currently, not even allowed to beg at the gates of the EU!
I honestly have no clue how Bojo expects any of the constituent member governments to belief any word he says even if he magically came up with anything they could team up against the other 26. If the consequences weren't so grave it would be amusing watching him make a fool of himself this pompously.
I cannot see anything in the Bill which would prevent the EU27 from imposing tariffs to UK goods due to the UK violating the WA. If tariffs are imposed and we ignore the tariffs then the EU27 can simply refuse to allow the goods to enter their jurisdiction.
The only changes I can make out in the Bill are to disapply customs arrangements between NI and GB, which the UK Government agreed must take place (in certain circumstances) back in January.
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From the same team that tried to rush through the bill in the first place.
Tariffs are paid by the importer not the exporter . Johnson agreed to the Customs Border being in the Irish Sea, even if he didn't realise it and whatever happens now there has to be a customs border between the EU and the UK not only between Ireland and the UK but at all the other border points eg Dover.
If Johnson were insane enough to do this then the borders will be virtually sealed. Little would go in or out.