True. Win win or something.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I'm old enough to remember travelling to France from the UK before the UK joined the EC. Used to have to write in your passport how much sterling you were taking out the country, how many travellers cheques and have your passport stamped each time you passed through customs. Oh for the
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Someone should point out to him that we are done listening to experts! Just wing it!
A man who has run out of ideas and looking for another middleman to blame.
UK makes free-trade offer to Australia despite farmers' fears - BBC News
The only positive explanation for this trade deal that the BBC can come up with in the article is " Ministers are keen to strike as many trade deals as possible following Brexit, and Ms Truss wants one in place with Australia by the time the UK hosts the G7 summit - of leading economies - in June.." Sounds good then...
The only positive explanation for this trade deal that the BBC can come up with in the article is " Ministers are keen to strike as many trade deals as possible following Brexit, and Ms Truss wants one in place with Australia by the time the UK hosts the G7 summit - of leading economies - in June.." Sounds good then...
Does free trade really need positive explanations?
Free trade with potentially negative consequences and no known positives as in the article, definitely. It's not so much that anyway more the inference that the deal is totally politically motivated rather than commercially.
We currently import more from the UK than we export apparently but I guess farmers fear Australian meat will become cheaper and flood the market.
Anything Liz Truss has a hand in is guaranteed to be shit.
UK Farmers Launch Blistering Attack On Government Over Australian Trade Deal As Johnson Insists It's Not A Threat
https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...rade-deal-as-johnson-insists-its-not-a-threat
UK Farmers Launch Blistering Attack On Government Over Australian Trade Deal As Johnson Insists It's Not A Threat
https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...rade-deal-as-johnson-insists-its-not-a-threat
I thought the argument for protectionism had been widely recognised as lost (save for a wave of Trumpian populism a few years back).
The opportunity for more choice and cheaper costs to the consumer far outweigh a few pissed off farmers who will have a bit more competition.
In truth on the rare occasion that government makes a good decision, I tend not to worry myself with their motivation.
That being the case it should be seen as an opportunity.
If someone doing the exact same job as me (with a similar cost base) could distribute a product from 10,000 miles away to my customer more competitively than I could from a couple of hundred miles away, whilst at the same time being similar on quality; I'd be looking at my own business practices rather than crying for barriers to trade.
Farming has always been a sacred cow though (excuse the pun) in terms of free trade (see the Common Agriculture Policy).
I think Australia see this as an easy deal that is very much in our interests and probably better than we would get if the UK wasn't desperate to get deals done.
Well, nearly 5 months in and all I've seen so far are disadvantages, both for Brits at home and abroad. Extra costs, extra bureaucracy, extra everything that's not a benefit.
But freedom or something. And no more brown or black people stealing the jobs we still won't or can't do.
It's in both parties' interests. The only people who will potentially lose out are inefficient Aussie or British farmers that want to stymy competition.
More moronic actions from Liz Truss. Destroy the British farmers trade with the EU for peanuts with a far off country. People still believe this nonsense.
It's like being a millionaire , losing it all and celebrate picking ten quid off the pavement. They'll learn eventually.
Even the trade department reckon this deal will increase GDP by a tiny amount:
"The trade department says a deal will only boost GDP by £500m spread over the next 15 years, or around 0.025% of GDP, showing how small the likely direct benefit will be"
UK-Australia trade deal: what are the key issues? | Trade policy | The Guardian
It's going to get worse not better, all the regulations are being phased in and the full effects won't be seen for another two years.
My daughter learnt yesterday that her best English friend who was planning to live here has decided to return to the UK as soon as their son reaches 18, he is going to stay as he is doing well with his BAC (A Levels) and has a job already. My daughter's friend has already been living here for quite a few years with the son, had cancer treatment here which seemed to have been successful but her husband is a fireman in the UK used to come every couple of weeks by plane for a small airfare. He was due to retire in a couple of years and start a small business here. Now impossible.
End result family's dreams ruined, son splits from parents and friends torn apart.
Lots of British are going back to the UK, loads of houses for sale in the known British hotspots in this region.
What if that inefficiency is caused by different social standards? Will Brits be happy to play by Aussie rules or will British farmers just have to accept that Aussie farmers have different rules that govern their competitiveness?
Remember before the referendum one of the arguments from the Brexiters was we want trade deals more suited to the UK than to the EU as a whole. So far this has meant that thanks to Liz Truss the Uk can now sell stilton to Japan, quince to India tariff free even though they don't buy it and now trade the same products with a country on the other side of the world for a minuscule amount.
They could also sort out 90% of the problems with NI if the UK agreed to EU food standards. They won't and why they won't must be a serious cause for concern for UK consumers.
If there's a nuance in Australian farming legislation that allows a completely safe product to be manufactured in a much cheaper way; a way that is currently not allowed in the UK for whatever reason, then the government should of course look to iron out that nuance and allow UK farmers to compete on a level playing field.
And you trust Boris, Liz and Edwardian Mogg to do that? I only have rudimentary knowledge about farming but just this morning I read that Australian farmers can just bury their deceased livestock on their fields while UK farmers have to pay 20 pounds to get rid of it (which makes sense imo). If I was looking to invest I know where my investment would go to improve efficiency...
In the words of a great man "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
So no, I wouldn't trust government, in any scenario whatsoever, to do anything but make that situation worse.
I saw this yesterday in the Tel. Despite the fact it's shattered the dreams of a swathe of their readership, it's very dispassionately written and doesn't criticise Brexit.
Why the expat retirement dream could be gone forever
Sun-seeking pensioners no longer have the same rights following Brexit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/expat-retirement-dream-could-gone-forever/
It's so sad. I queued up at the Immigration Office the other week to collect our new residence cards (specifically for Brits who've retained their rights to stay), and it really brought it home that if you're British, you're now no different than any other non-European. We have the cards and the right to stay, but we're out of the club.
Of course, if you're determined to remain in a European country and are happy to pay your way as a British immigrant it's possible to do that, as we have - but for many who just enjoyed the freedom of movement bit with no ties or checks, that's no longer possible. As you'll know, it's not cheap or easy to take residency. I doubt we'd have done it if not for Brexit, for years we were happy doing three months here and three back in the UK, rinse and repeat. Now we have no intention of returning to live in the UK, even though we have a small property there (our fallback in case everything somehow goes pear-shaped).
I know quite a lot of Brits around this area . Some didn't realise what the effect would be, some are heartbroken they have to return back to the UK; those that were more savvy did the necessary. People can live here if they do the necessary and meet the requirements. Many Brits don't speak french and those that do speak some struggle because they don't know enough.
Those that have coped found the system is quite easy and cheap if you know what you're doing and have a good command of french.
The Uk will have a lot of older people to look after.
I feel really sad for some people I know, they are so angry with Brexiters. Before everything was so easy, people could come and go as they please, hop on a plane for less than the price of a train ticket in the UK.
It took a time but was easy for me to get french nationality for €55 . My son-in-law didn't take french nationality but was told to apply for his carte de séjour last October and got it at the beginning of January for free, he's got his own business and was a very simple process.
Will they bring all their money back?
Otherwise, the choice is re-settle in the wilds of Scotland, or internment camps
in the North Riding!But those I know are not rich villa owners on the Côte d'Azur, they are ordinary people who bought houses years ago who intended to live here for the rest of their life on their pension. Lots would be lucky to sell their houses at the price they paid for them and then they'd have to buy a house in the UK which are more expensive. Maybe Priti Patel will arrange a camp for the undesirable returnees who will be a burden on the state.Will they bring all their money back?
Otherwise, the choice is re-settle in the wilds of Scotland, or internment camps
What do you suppose the average price of these houses people are going to have to leave? I realise that's a bit finger in the wind but I'd appreciate a guess maybe.
Yes, it is personally devastating for many who are in the position you mention. The fact is though that 'pensions' formerly spent in France/Spain/Italy and elsewhere which on some level must have benefited the locality, will now be spent in the UK.
Do you think the Brexiteers' may have had this mind...?.... yet more information not revealed before the referendum!
All sorts of prices, remembering that the Brits and the Dutch and the Belgians buying principle or secondary homes ten to twenty years ago drove the prices up locally and now lots are coming on the market at the same time in small villages or towns or in the countryside. I know one woman bought a large house for about £250k has had it on the market for two years with no interest and now there are dozens in that area which are now up for sale and the population of that village is less than a thousand. It was a British enclave.
But many were paying into the french system or if not were using the french health system or care sysytem even if some were reimbursed by the UK government. There will now be an extra burden on the NHS , care home system etc in the UK so in effect the UK will be replacing younger working taxpaying EU citizens with older UK citizens who will be heavily reliant on the state.
No, I appreciate it's a bit of a daft question but this will cause all sorts of problems even if these people can sell their houses at a loss. If the same situation was being faced in Italy which I'm not sure it is at least from Central regions down to the South because I think everyone we know at least has done their homework and got in under the wire. We're very well informed by thelocal.com - Italy - but anyway, not least of the issues won't necessarily be the money that stops being spent in supermarkets etc but instead local rates which in our area with all ages including families means a lot for local funding, even numbers keeping local schools open has meant a lot to Italian families as well, possibly similar in smaller communities in France?
Yes, agreed, people are all welcome by the local communities, especially in rural areas, everyone contributing to make each commune a better place, schools closure is a threat, here where we are are not so many Brits but there are Dutch , Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish, and many others. It breathes life into the community.
Yes, I wan't sure there would be the same or similar attitudes but for the moment all are welcome here, I don't think our particular commune has been this wealthy in a very long time - decades - if ever really.
Socially it will be bad for a lot of families in the UK, if ex ex-pats can't sell their homes (and a lot of the homes ex-pats buy over here were left empty for years) and buy in the UK where prices will rise - pensioners won't get mortgages - the number of people relying on families to put them up will bring a lot of unhappiness. If we were in the same position which we're luckily not I don't think we would put the house on the market, instead place it with a holiday rental agent on the off chance something will change. I don't know what would though.
I'm not sure how big an issue it will be
If its a second home then people have a uk home as well... perhaps they will sell the home abroad now they are time limited to how long they can stay or perhaps they won't... Will depend on individual circumstances but they will already have a uk home
If they have moved abroad and its their primary residence then they have every right to stay and should have registered accordingly ... no need to move back / sell up
If they have moved over there and not registered (be that through being lazy or because they have been trying to avoid tax etc) then I suspect its a pretty small subset and it's hard to have sympathy given that it's been clear for a long time what people needed to do... but as i say I suspect its a pretty small group
I'm keeping my second home in Spain... rent it out mostly but also have Irish citizenship so easy decision for me... might sell it in a couple of years once the bulk of properties have shifted
If those leaving were paying additionally (beyond the levels agreed between member countries) into the local health systems, presumably that will be a loss not only to those health systems but also in those local area economy's? Will that be a major blow affecting local indigenous populations, or only to local enclaves of ex-pats?
Older people who are totally reliant on their UK pensions will be bringing back those pensions to the UK. It is true there will be an even long queue at the NHS door, making the backlog from the pandemic even worse and being 'old' in the UK has always been something of a 'health' postcode lottery, so ex-pats returning need to be looking at where they replant their roots.
Scotland could have a particular problem as it will need (in particular as an independent country) to stop its greatest export i.e. younger Scots men and women, and look to reduce its dependence on the layering of the Barnett formula. A 'flood' of Scots ex-pats returning could sink Ms Sturgeon's plans.
Maybe you're right, a very small sub-set. I don't know if it's the same in Spain but here the onus is on the individual to find out everything themselves and some pensioners won't be internet savvy but on the other hand most everyone is plugged into a decent network, as are we. Everyone helps everyone with info and knowhow. Even so not everyone is as disciplined as @Penna and some people we know, it's been incredibly technical and confusing at times, having a decent command of the language is also essential, without it and you'd have no chance. Fair few I imagine in Spain don't qualify in some of those.
Quite right, the lazy ones will have no-one to blame but themselves, some have been so incredulous regarding the changes to a degree they might have felt this wouldn't happen.
I don't know that there are many here with homes still in the UK. Certainly not the younger couples who came out here to work and raise families.
What’s the basic problem for those Brits - do you have to show you can pay your way including private health insurance that no doubt costs a fortune at that age?
People I'm talking about are not second home owners, there are some of them but that's a completely different set of people who come for holidays now and again, I'm talking about people who live here, or did live here, it's not wealthy people or tax avoiders just normal people who can't live here any more. There are many reasons, they haven't done the right paperwork they can't speak french sufficiently well, can't pay their way, it's a much larger group than the secondary home owners.