I always wonder how many of these people voted for Brexit too. For those that didn't it's tragic to have their retirement trashed for nothing.I know quite a lot of Brits around this area . Some didn't realise what the effect would be, some are heartbroken they have to return back to the UK; those that were more savvy did the necessary. People can live here if they do the necessary and meet the requirements. Many Brits don't speak french and those that do speak some struggle because they don't know enough.
Those that have coped found the system is quite easy and cheap if you know what you're doing and have a good command of french.
The Uk will have a lot of older people to look after.
I mean it's pretty difficult to feel sympathy for people who find them self in that situation... if they have not done the paperwork then their fault... if they can't speak the language then their fault and if they can't support themselves that's a shame but it's not down on another government to support themPeople I'm talking about are not second home owners, there are some of them but that's a completely different set of people who come for holidays now and again, I'm talking about people who live here, or did live here, it's not wealthy people or tax avoiders just normal people who can't live here any more. There are many reasons, they haven't done the right paperwork they can't speak french sufficiently well, can't pay their way, it's a much larger group than the secondary home owners.
You have to be able to pay your way, normally you would have complimentary health insurance, have they been contributing to the french system while they've lived here. Pensions have gone down in value since the pound collapsed. some do not know what to do, some have been told to do things by other Brits who don't know what they're doing.What’s the basic problem for those Brits - do you have to show you can pay your way including private health insurance that no doubt costs a fortune at that age?
The villages were not entirely taken over by Brits but certain villages had a high proportion of Brits, they seem to gather together. I don't know anyone here who voted for Brexit and those I do know would have a serious problem with anyone they found out was a Brexiter.I always wonder how many of these people voted for Brexit too. For those that didn't it's tragic to have their retirement trashed for nothing.
So these British enclaves in France will become ghost towns or will locals gradually move back, given they're nice period houses, rather than oversupplied newbuilds like in Marbella in 2007-08?
who would have believed that the end of freedom of movement would work both ways?I saw this yesterday in the Tel. Despite the fact it's shattered the dreams of a swathe of their readership, it's very dispassionately written and doesn't criticise Brexit.
Why the expat retirement dream could be gone forever
Sun-seeking pensioners no longer have the same rights following Brexit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/expat-retirement-dream-could-gone-forever/
But they were causing nobody any harm, just living their lives ,I agree they should make efforts to learn the language but many had enough just to get by.I mean it's pretty difficult to feel sympathy for people who find them self in that situation... if they have not done the paperwork then their fault... if they can't speak the language then their fault and if they can't support themselves that's a shame but it's not down on another government to support them
I have a second home in Spain and perhaps that skews my view but the only people I know are people who despite knowing the process to stay properly chose not to as " the spanish won't dare get rid of us brits... they need our money and I'm not registering with them as they will come after me for taxes"... 99% of people it's either their second home or they registered properly... that small % of idiots I have no sympathy for... ref did they vote for brexit pretty sure the ones I know didn't as they couldn't be bothered because it wasn't going to make a difference... these Spanish need our money... I have no sympathy for them at all but it is a very very tiny percentage I'm my experience
Wouldn't we all.The villages were not entirely taken over by Brits but certain villages had a high proportion of Brits, they seem to gather together. I don't know anyone here who voted for Brexit and those I do know would have a serious problem with anyone they found out was a Brexiter.
Residents, you don't need to be a citizen.Wouldn't we all.
You may be aware that there are a number of TV programmes here in the UK such as New Life In The Sun or similar.
And despite the high number buying properly in Spain, a fair number have bought in France. The big attractions being the lovely country and lifestyle as well as the fantastic value for money of those properties. Very tempting I have to admit.
These programmes have been running for many years.
As I understand it, unless they have become French or Spanish citizens for example, they can now only stay for up to 90 days at a time.
A close friend of mine decided to sell his place in southern Spain prior to Brexit. He tells me that he got out just before the sell off and the price has dropped by over 25%.
Safe to say he did not vote to leave and was a big advocate of the EU. There are some...
There's a big French population where I live in London, I guess people do gather together.The villages were not entirely taken over by Brits but certain villages had a high proportion of Brits, they seem to gather together. I don't know anyone here who voted for Brexit and those I do know would have a serious problem with anyone they found out was a Brexiter.
They need our money innit.who would have believed that the end of freedom of movement would work both ways?
Do French people like to buy older 'character' properties? In Italy most Italians buy modern super efficient heating and insulation earthquake proof generational houses. or build them as young couples. Outsiders such as ourselves and Germans plus others buy the empty older properties. We wouldn't be so welcome if we started pricing locals out of their properties.The villages were not entirely taken over by Brits but certain villages had a high proportion of Brits, they seem to gather together. I don't know anyone here who voted for Brexit and those I do know would have a serious problem with anyone they found out was a Brexiter.
The main issue is that these properties are often far from jobs and sometimes from schools(middle schools and highschools) which make them less attractive.Do French people like to buy older 'character' properties? In Italy most Italians buy modern super efficient heating and insulation earthquake proof generational houses. or build them as young couples. Outsiders such as ourselves and Germans plus others buy the empty older properties. We wouldn't be so welcome if we started pricing locals out of their properties.
Yes they had those programmes when I lived in the UK many moons ago. Some have become citizens , some want to stay jst British but if you comply with the requirements it's not necessary to change nationalities.Wouldn't we all.
You may be aware that there are a number of TV programmes here in the UK such as New Life In The Sun or similar.
And despite the high number buying properly in Spain, a fair number have bought in France. The big attractions being the lovely country and lifestyle as well as the fantastic value for money of those properties. Very tempting I have to admit.
These programmes have been running for many years.
As I understand it, unless they have become French or Spanish citizens for example, they can now only stay for up to 90 days at a time.
A close friend of mine decided to sell his place in southern Spain prior to Brexit. He tells me that he got out just before the sell off and the price has dropped by over 25%.
Safe to say he did not vote to leave and was a big advocate of the EU. There are some...
I think it's a bit different here although I think a fair few men drive up North un Sunday nights to work for the week and return on Friday nights to see their families. I think it's very different in the South where whole villages are nearly empty. The average age even here is getting higher and higher but the old walled centre of the commune is still mostly occupied with families building new houses outside the walls.The main issue is that these properties are often far from jobs and sometimes from schools(middle schools and highschools) which make them less attractive.
In rural areas older french people don't tend to move houses much. The younger ones would tend to buy a newer property or buy some land and construct a new house. the outsiders as you say are the ones who tend to buy the old properties and renovate them. When the Brits and others flooded the rural market say twenty years ago the prices shot up. Houses in towns are expensive but rural properties miles from facilities will fall in value but there are still plenty of Dutch and Belgians buying old rural properties.Do French people like to buy older 'character' properties? In Italy most Italians buy modern super efficient heating and insulation earthquake proof generational houses. or build them as young couples. Outsiders such as ourselves and Germans plus others buy the empty older properties. We wouldn't be so welcome if we started pricing locals out of their properties.
if they refused to register because they might 'get to their money' then they are potential tax evaders right?But they were causing nobody any harm, just living their lives ,I agree they should make efforts to learn the language but many had enough just to get by.
Where I live a french friend of mine who used to be a teacher and I met regularly groups of Brits and between us we'd give them french lessons and read french literature together, for free, and help with administration problems but that was just in our local area.
It's more the younger ones who were pre-retirement who had planned their lives and had it taken away before they could comply with the requirements who I feel more sorry for.
Those who have second homes we haven't seen for ages because of Covid.
Which consequently here we could only really sell them to the Germans and Dutch - the people who haven't lost their rights to come and go freely without having to take Residency. Brits would lose a lot on their 'investment' I would have to guess.the outsiders as you say are the ones who tend to buy the old properties and renovate them.
Exactly. As you say, so many people took their 'rights' for granted. And free movement of people was certainly one of them.Yes they had those programmes when I lived in the UK many moons ago. Some have become citizens , some want to stay jst British but if you comply with the requirements it's not necessary to change nationalities.
One big problem was the sort of disbelief of people who actually were pretty clued up on things and could speak a reasonable amount of french or even good french who couldn't get their head around their rights being taken away that they had taken for granted for many years. I must have said dozens of times, I know it's crazy but you have to do this or that to protect yourselves.
The UK chose to tighten their borders on one side which in turn lead to the other side doing the same. Many EU citizens left the UK because they were afraid for their future or didn't felt welcome anymore. Most won't look kindly at their own country if they roll the red carpet to the same people who voted them out of their adopted home.People I'm talking about are not second home owners, there are some of them but that's a completely different set of people who come for holidays now and again, I'm talking about people who live here, or did live here, it's not wealthy people or tax avoiders just normal people who can't live here any more. There are many reasons, they haven't done the right paperwork they can't speak french sufficiently well, can't pay their way, it's a much larger group than the secondary home owners.
They are registered and would be paying into the french system for at least part of their expenses, e.g; the equivalent of council tax in the UK or services, some were using the reciprocal health system which will stop soon. It's very difficult to remain anonymous in France especially in a rural area.if they refused to register because they might 'get to their money' then they are potential tax evaders right?
Before they just paid tax in the UK and had free healthcare under the EHIC arrangement. With taking residency they have to pay tax at the host country rate on anything over the UK rate plus pay in to the host country's health care system for 5 years until they become full residents. That can be several thousands of £. Not everyone can afford the increases.if they refused to register because they might 'get to their money' then they are potential tax evaders right?
Of course, anything the UK does will be reciprocated by the EU country.The UK chose to tighten their borders on one side which in turn lead to the other side doing the same. Many EU citizens left the UK because they were afraid for their future or didn't felt welcome anymore. Most won't look kindly at their own country if they roll the red carpet to the same people who voted them out of their adopted home.
Some who voted stay are being adversely affected.Exactly. As you say, so many people took their 'rights' for granted. And free movement of people was certainly one of them.
Ok. It might not affect the majority. But it was a very fundamental right and I do hope that some who voted to leave are now being adversely affected.
Part of the expenses doesn't really cut it. Why should an EU country pick up the rest of the tab especially considering how hostile the UK had been towards the EU particularly against the French?They are registered and would be paying into the french system for at least part of their expenses, e.g; the equivalent of council tax in the UK or services, some were using the reciprocal health system which will stop soon. It's very difficult to remain anonymous in France especially in a rural area.
Well that's something these migrants should put forward to their MPs the very next day they are forced back home. The UK wasn't kicked out of the EU. It voted itself out. Once that happened they negotiated the most distant and hostile deal possible apart from hard Brexit. If I was one of those people I would be fuming at the Tory government right now.Before they just paid tax in the UK and had free healthcare under the EHIC arrangement. With taking residency they have to pay tax at the host country rate on anything over the UK rate plus pay in to the host country's health care system for 5 years until they become full residents. That can be several thousands of £. Not everyone can afford the increases.
It's proportional, some will use the service, some won't. It hopefully evens out.Part of the expenses doesn't really cut it. Why should an EU country pick up the rest of the tab especially considering how hostile the UK had been towards the EU particularly against the French?
Maybe that day will come, maybe most people don't want to admit they were lied to or care. The original vote was won by a small majority.Well that's something these migrants should put forward to their MPs the very next day they are forced back home. The UK wasn't kicked out of the EU. It voted itself out. Once that happened they negotiated the most distant and hostile deal possible apart from hard Brexit. If I was one of those people I would be fuming at the Tory government right now.
Your point is 100% valid.Some who voted stay are being adversely affected.
That is democracy I am afraid.Some who voted stay are being adversely affected.
Sorry, what I meant is that they're in the system if they're paying their council tax or part of their expenses such as electricity, water etc , everyone gets sent a tax form to fill in. If the Uk government have been reimbursing the french health service for their treatment. No EU country is going to pay anyone who isn't entitled to it.Part of the expenses doesn't really cut it. Why should an EU country pick up the rest of the tab especially considering how hostile the UK had been towards the EU particularly against the French?
I don't think it's a question of sympathy, shit happens and we had it fairly good for a good while. The UK seems insistent on heading down a dark wormhole with no known destination but perhaps we'll all be pleasantly surprised that Boris actually knew all of the time exactly what he was doing and it would have a positive outcome. Or perhaps it was just about making his friends even richer. I have some empathy for those whose lives have been turned upside down and are going to suffer for it.Your point is 100% valid.
But equally... Anyone in the UK who wants to remain in the EU is being led by those that voted Leave... so while sympathy for overseas EU Remainers is easy to find, it’s not worth anything. It’s like we’re being repeatedly punched in the face and then being asked to care that someone is getting rained on.
Yes, I appreciate the first past the post version of democracy. We'll reap what we sow. With Priti Patel shitting on EU visitors I wouldn't blame other EU citizens wanting to reciprocate.That is democracy I am afraid.
Millions get to vote on something they know little or nothing about and on something they are unlikely to be affected by. Twas ever thus.
Yep, I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly. Just adding context as to why many will just shorthand “This is what you asked for”, as that’s all WE hear. It’s lazy. Most that voted Remain have absolutely sympathy and empathy for kindred spirits overseas.I don't think it's a question of sympathy, shit happens and we had it fairly good for a good while. The UK seems insistent on heading down a dark wormhole with no known destination but perhaps we'll all be pleasantly surprised that Boris actually knew all of the time exactly what he was doing and it would have a positive outcome. Or perhaps it was just about making his friends even richer. I have some empathy for those whose lives have been turned upside down and are going to suffer for it.
I appreciate that, I was just saying that I'm not looking for sympathy, as a country we've made our bed. With the recent election it's worrying that despite it being plain that our leaders are corrupt as the day is long, that the majority (first past the post) want to bury their heads and deny that thet can see what they've fallen for.Yep, I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly. Just adding context as to why many will just shorthand “This is what you asked for”, as that’s all WE hear. It’s lazy. Most that voted Remain have absolutely sympathy and empathy for kindred spirits overseas.
That is so shortsighted. You risk to decimate your local food supply chain. Do that and if a war starts and you depend on food imports and you are fecked. The times that you can raid the indian granaries killing millions of indians are long goneIt's in both parties' interests. The only people who will potentially lose out are inefficient Aussie or British farmers that want to stymy competition.
...or a pandemic that really messes up global supply chains. Far-fetched, I know.That is so shortsighted. You risk to decimate your local food supply chain. Do that and if a war starts and you depend on food imports and you are fecked. The times that you can raid the indian granaries killing millions of indians are long gone
Protectionism in food products are to maintain a sustainable national industry for survival
Mainly massive economies of scale and outdoor rearing mainly. Cattle are raised outdoors with very low supervision on huge farms. The biggest being considerably bigger than Wales and 100,000 sq kms not unusual. They just adjust the density of stock to the quality of the pasture and let them roam most of the time.Also, it'd be interesting to learn exactly why Australia can produce meat so much more cheaply.
That and the fact your main export partner is no longer accepting imports from Australia, which is driving the price of Australian beef down.Mainly massive economies of scale and outdoor rearing mainly. Cattle are raised outdoors with very low supervision on huge farms. The biggest being considerably bigger than Wales and 100,000 sq kms not unusual. They just adjust the density of stock to the quality of the pasture and let them roam most of the time.
We overpay in our supermarkets for sure and the quality is terrible. You get much better meat for the same price at the butchers and if you want to pay more you can get stunning stuff, wagyu, grain fed, grass fed, dry aged, whatever you want. Like for almost everything here. But export prices are way lower than the UK product for an equivalent or better product apparently. When home I find supermarket meat, beef in particular, very bland, even more so than Coles meat.That and the fact your main export partner is no longer accepting imports from Australia, which is driving the price of Australian beef down.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/china-bans-cost-meat-industry-hundreds-of-millions/12961538
I don't think we'll see an FTA with Australia. The agri sector here in the UK aren't happy about it.
I've lived in both countries and can say for certain that beef products are cheaper in the UK. A sirloin steak from Coles is more expensive than its equivalent in Tesco.
Also, grass fed beef products are a luxury in Australia and you pay more for it. Gippsland beef, for example, is considered a premium beef product because they are mostly grass fed. Grain fed is the norm, which is more fatty in quality when compared to leaner grass fed beef, which is more the norm here in the UK. So really, in the UK we pay less for a better product...
The UK market isn't going to be decimated by a competitor who has costs to export their product 10,000 miles, along with a higher minimum wage and similar standards. UK farmers will have a bit more competition and UK consumers will likely get a bit better price and/or a wider selection of products. It's clearly a win-win however much people wish it wasn't.That is so shortsighted. You risk to decimate your local food supply chain. Do that and if a war starts and you depend on food imports and you are fecked. The times that you can raid the indian granaries killing millions of indians are long gone
Protectionism in food products are to maintain a sustainable national industry for survival
I wonder what the cost of farm land in Australia is compared to the UK?The UK market isn't going to be decimated by a competitor who has costs to export their product 10,000 miles, along with a higher minimum wage and similar standards. UK farmers will have a bit more competition and UK consumers will likely get a bit better price and/or a wider selection of products. It's clearly a win-win however much people wish it wasn't.
