Yeah, considering what'd happened in Ireland it was remarkable they managed to get to a point where the DUP and SF could (to an extent) at least fathom the idea of working together.
I understand that I'm harsh but I'm right too. Just read the last part of the agreement, named Agreement Between the Government of the United Kindgom and Northern Ireland and the Government of Ireland, that part is totally in favor of the non Irish part of the agreement, that's where the people of the Island of Ireland should have had a protection against the potential actions of the Government of the United Kingdom and Ireland. Northern Ireland only have a say in case of a United Ireland proposal but they have no say on changes regarding the legal framework of the Good Friday agreement, the narrowed basis for self determination is purposefully narrowed and it goes against the general concept of self-determination because as of today NI self-determined that they wanted to remain in the EU which is the legal framework for the Good Friday agreement.
In practical terms what do you think they could have actually done differently though?
I will let you be the judge on the feasibility:
Why does Lord Snooty think treasury officials would do this? Honest question.
Because it doesn't conform to his own biases.
Because it is what he would do if he was in their position, only the other way around... He projects his morality onto others.
This is what it looks like, I just wonder what reason if any Mogg gives for this opinion? Surely he doesn't just spout this shit with no justification. It makes no sense.
I can appreciate this. I'm just fed up of people just saying stuff with no rhyme or reason behind it.Err...
Yes, me too, and we're not even the ones who have to deal with them. Those treasury officials (who i'm sure are at the very top of their profession) and loads of civil servants must be fuming...
I'd even be happier with some false justification!
Does he assume they all are "remoaners"? The stats tell us at least half will be leave voters. I just don't get it.
Maybe he is aware of some figures fiddling in that domain?
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I’d argue civil servants are more educated than general population, and there was a huge correlation between high education and remain vote.
Yeah, if that was a part of the conversation, GFA wouldn't have happened for sure and still would have been fighting!.
Well that's not what I said, I said that the protection of the GFA was incompetently done which is why we are in the current situation. The GFA by itself like I said several time is a great achievement.
I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on the GFA but I don't think those terms would have been politically viable. Unless I'm reading it wrong your suggestion leads to one of two potential scenarios.
I bet there was a high correlation between high education and a tory vote promising a ref. Look how that turned out for you.
Not wrong at all Sully, very well put.Or maybe I'm wrong. Who knows?
Will we ever get to the point where Brexit backers will go, 'you know what, maybe this isn't a good idea'?
Good post.I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on the GFA but I don't think those terms would have been politically viable. Unless I'm reading it wrong your suggestion leads to one of two potential scenarios.
1. The GFA can be rendered void if the UK and a NI majority vote in that direction.
Why would nationalists or the Republic agree to these terms? The nationalists required the GFA to guarantee a degree of protection from the UK and NI majority. Agreeing to them having the power to revoke the influence of the EU on issues like the border and justice would surely be an immediate non-starter? I can't imagine the Republic would have been any more agreeable to this scenario either given their current views on relationship between Brexit the GFA.
2. Any decisions like Brexit that might impact on the GFA must receive the approval of the Republic of Ireland.
Would the UK or unionists have been happy to surrender that sort of power to the Republic? Especially in the broad terms that would be required to ensure the Republic agreed? I very much doubt it as it would be a pretty extraordinary thing to do. It would certainly run against the "take back control" narrative of Brexit itself. Plus even in this scenario, the suggestion that the UK might want to leave the EU at some point would have been an issue for nationalists.
The GFA left us with a NI that was technically part of the UK whilst still kinda/sorta part of Ireland, whose citizens could be both British and Irish and who were allowed seemingly contradictory freedoms, protections and potential political futures. This was only really possible because various factors (such as EU membership and improved relations between the UK and ROI) made so many of these contradictions irrelevant. This was the magic that made the agreement work; double-think and sidestepping issues. I rather suspect that any practical measures that might have safeguarded against the current brexit crisis would also have undermined the constructive ambiguity that allowed the GFA to function in the first place. It was impossible for the GFA to address these questions because it fundamentally relied on these questions never being asked.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Who knows?
I can only laugh as it's so tragic. Do you want to be part of the world's richest trading bloc? No. Would you rather our economy was irrevocably fecked in the vain hope you can keep swarthy foreigners out? Yes.Are you British? What do you think? I am not, and from this side of the Irish Sea seems like those asking your question almost tend to exclude their own passion from the equation, as if it was somehow mildly shameful to be a Pro European, an advocate for that project. Think that once that barrier was crossed by Remainers, things would become clearer.
Oh god.
no
Will we ever get to the point where Jeremy Corbyn will go, 'you know what, maybe this isn't a good idea'?
Because it would kill off a ton of Labour's voting base. People can criticise Labour Brexit policy(which for the most part is simply not talking about Brexit)but wanting Cobyn to actively come out against Brexit is living in fantasy world.
Why does London grow more under no deal?
So Corbyn is as much responsible for Brexit as anyone else then. Just as much to blame as Boris, Gove and the rest.
Well yes and no. Yes because we had a referendum and leave won so Corbyn is following the ''democratic'' process but no because the UK under a Corbyn lead Labour government would be vastly better than anything the Tories could offer.
They could try and substantiate an actual policy though. Labour still refuse to commit to either a hard or soft Brexit.
Following the "democratic" process is exactly the same excuse May has used, so I take it you agree he's equally to blame.
It's getting clearer that Labour haven't really got any policy regarding Brexit but I can't say what their policy should be. Everyone mostly agrees that Labour should have a policy but no ones what that policy should be(A policy that doesn't alienate their voters).
Firstly I don't blame anyone really, Brexit was a 20-30 odd years in the making and certainly not the shock result some people think it is. As for the excuse, people did in the end vote to leave, political parties can't just ignore that.
But there's really no way of stopping Brexit, if the Labour Party supported stopping Brexit or even a second referendum than all it would achieved is destroying it's voting base.
I don't deny that - opting for soft Brexit alienates Labour voters who supported Brexit and feel like they haven't been listened to, while a hard Brexit alienates the majority of the pro-European membership base. Logistically speaking it's a sensible move for Labour to have an obscured and ill-defined Brexit policy because like with the vote itself, it allows voters to project what their idea of a Labour Brexit is onto the party. The problem is that it's just incredibly frustrating to see the actual opposition offering so little in the way of a genuine viewpoint as to what's happening with Brexit.
Completely agree and this response by Labour will only last so long. But it's really only frustrating for those who care about Brexit, which is a small part of the country(For better or worse)
Obviously there's a lot more going on than Brexit but it's still a hugely significant issue which will impact - directly or indirectly - most of the other areas currently in need of being addressed.
