Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Massive Spanner]

I don't think this is it. I think they're very comfortable leading with UK stories just not this one as the vast majority of people are bored out of their mind by Brexit and have no interest in reading about the latest developments.

Hmm, maybe. Still, they're your national broadcaster, paid for by the public. Surely they could cover it regardless? But I can see your point.

Weirdly it's Irish sites I go on to actually see Brexit news as we seem to be shitting it here more than you are.

 

[DOTA]

Hmm, maybe. Still, they're your national broadcaster, paid for by the public. Surely they could cover it regardless? But I can see your point.

Weirdly it's Irish sites I go on to actually see Brexit news as we seem to be shitting it here more than you are.

Oh, yeah.

 

[17Larsson]

Am I right in saying that no deal would result in a hard border at Northern Ireland and therefore not upholding the Good Friday agreement and therefore starting negotiations on deals with the rest of the world while just after failing to uphold their end of an internationally binding deal.

Sorry for bringing the border issue up again

 

[Massive Spanner]

Am I right in saying that no deal would result in a hard border at Northern Ireland and therefore not upholding the Good Friday agreement and therefore starting negotiations on deals with the rest of the world while just after failing to uphold their end of an internationally binding deal.

Sorry for bringing the border issue up again

Yeah no deal would be a border.

Honestly though I don't know how they would even set one up on this short notice? There are 300 entry points and over 30,000 travel across the border every day for work. It would be a shitstorm.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Eh? Who talked about rejoining? All I am saying, is that there will be a "no deal" departure. WTO rules and all that. Then, 5-6 years down the line (maybe more), a different government will negotiate a Norway type deal.

How are they going to negotiate any type of deal, they've left, gone, that's it, third country, even Ukraine will be in front of them.
Yes it's total insanity.

I've said dozens of times, Norway is not what they need , although it would be better than WTO.
Also in the time lapse in between what would have happened, where would the UK be.
The companies who will probably leave are not going to come back just like that.

 

[DOTA]

Weirdly it's Irish sites I go on to actually see Brexit news as we seem to be shitting it here more than you are.

I assume this is because you are very aware and can vividly remember what a border will bring. We're largely clueless about what any of it means on our island.

 

[Silva]

One of the junior defence ministers Guto Bebb (who? also, bad name) resigned over the first ERG amendment

 

[DOTA]

One of the junior defence ministers Guto Bebb (who? also, bad name) resigned over the first ERG amendment

You can't just make people up, Silva.

 

[rcoobc]

I find it hard to agree with you. There was no strong incentive from either side (EU or Britain) to reach a soft-Brexit deal. And it wasn't easy for any party, let alone a Tory government, to ignore the referendum results.

This is playing out exactly as I expected it to. They are just stalling and wasting time but everyone knows how this is going.

I disagree entirely. I've said from the start we'd end up with a Norway minus the single market type relationship. I've said it for years, I've said it continuously, and up until today I thought I was right on the money.

The government white paper set out a Norway-without-the-single-market type relationship. It makes free trade with america harder, but not impossible. It allows the UK the survive the worst of Brexit (manufacturing jobs would survive) whilst allowing us to Leave and pursue this free-trade "global Britain" the like of Boris like to yabber on about. It would have been a decent sensible compromise and we seemed to be heading towards it.


Oh well.

But. What's most surprising to me, is that the government has given in to fanatics.

 

[Silva]

You can't just make people up, Silva.

Spoiler: Guto Bebb

 

[MadMike]

How are they going to negotiate any type of deal, they've left, gone, that's it, third country, even Ukraine will be in front of them.
Yes it's total insanity.

I've said dozens of times, Norway is not what they need , although it would be better than WTO.
Also in the time lapse in between what would have happened, where would the UK be.
The companies who will probably leave are not going to come back just like that.

You're not making any sense. Leaving doesn't mean they can't negotiate a trade deal down the line.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I assume this is because you are very aware and can vividly remember what a border will bring. We're largely clueless about what any of it means on our island.

I didn't live through the troubles myself but my parents did.

Honestly, nobody really knows. I think it's a common misconception that there was ever actually a "hard border" in Ireland. There wasn't, not like this at least. Since the CTA has existed and then IE and the UK entered the EU we have always had no need for customs checks on our border. The border during the troubles was mainly because of the violence and division at the time. We have never actually had one enforced due to customs laws and movement laws and that's the scary thing, it's a complete unknown.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You keep saying this but everything we hear from everyone on the EU side is that they'd like UK to completely rethink the idea, yet you seem to be under the impression they want us out and fast. Where do you get this information from because I've never found a single quote from anyone of note from the other side who has ever said anything like this.

They may like the UK to change their mind now and say OK we're staying. Barnier himself has said that the EU accept the UK is leaving, we negotiate the leaving process which means Citizens Rights, Irish border and the money owed. When they've left in March, start talking trade deals etc, it's been said over and over again. The new EU budget will be agreed soon, there's a new parliament vote early next year. They are not going to wait to the last minute.

Hardly any mention of Brexit now on the news, they've left in all but name. Life goes on.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You're not making any sense. Leaving doesn't mean they can't negotiate a trade deal down the line.

How does that not make sense . Yes trade deals like any other country but are they going to join EFTA or the EEA or be accepted therein?

 

[balaks]

On a personal note this just reinforces the utter lack of giving a shit that this government have to the impact on Northern Ireland. The DUP in supporting this are a fecking disgrace. They have voted to implement a hard border essentially. Absolute pack of turds.

 

[MadMike]

I disagree entirely. I've said from the start we'd end up with a Norway minus the single market type relationship. I've said it for years, I've said it continuously, and up until today I thought I was right on the money.

The government white paper set out a Norway-without-the-single-market type relationship. It makes free trade with america harder, but not impossible. It allows the UK the survive the worst of Brexit (manufacturing jobs would survive) whilst allowing us to Leave and pursue this free-trade "global Britain" the like of Boris like to yabber on about. It would have been a decent sensible compromise and we seemed to be heading towards it.

Oh well.

But. What's most surprising to me, is that the government has given in to fanatics.

I still think we will. But at a second phase from a different government. First there'll be a hard Brexit, then the people who are so polemic and vocal about it will quieted down a bit once they realise that pinning their hopes on Brexit to "Make Britain Great Again" was basically not the smartest thing in the world. There'll be more pro EU MPs in the parliament and then it will happen. Just not immediately.

 

[DOTA]

I didn't live through the troubles myself but my parents did.

Honestly, nobody really knows. I think it's a common misconception that there was ever actually a "hard border" in Ireland. There wasn't, not like this at least. Since the CTA has existed and then IE and the UK entered the EU we have always had no need for customs checks on our border. The border during the troubles was mainly because of the violence and division at the time. We have never actually had one enforced due to customs laws and movement laws and that's the scary thing, it's a complete unknown.

I was more suggesting y'all remember the troubles in general than you remember border issues. I don't think I'm being any more doom-mongering than most in thinking a rise in violence would be an inevitable result of something that ruins the GFA.

It feels like we barely care over here, beyond those very politically minded. Honestly, I live like four miles from the hotel in Brighton where the IRA nearly killed Thatcher and we just don't talk about Northern Ireland at all.

 

[balaks]

Am I right in saying that no deal would result in a hard border at Northern Ireland and therefore not upholding the Good Friday agreement and therefore starting negotiations on deals with the rest of the world while just after failing to uphold their end of an internationally binding deal.

Sorry for bringing the border issue up again

Yeah they would virtually tear up the good Friday agreement against the wishes of the people of Northern Ireland.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I was more suggesting y'all remember the troubles in general than you remember border issues. I don't think I'm being any more doom-mongering than most in thinking a rise in violence would be an inevitable result of something that ruins the GFA.

It feels like we barely care over here, beyond those very politically minded. Honestly, I live like four miles from the hotel in Brighton where the IRA nearly killed Thatcher and we just don't talk about Northern Ireland at all.

Why would you care? To most Britons NI is a just a part of a little island to the west of you that costs the UK billions to maintain with nothing in return. Actually I'm not even sure most English people know enough about NI to even form that opinion.

 

[GloryHunter07]

The ERG can ensure no deal even without parliament being involved. Just spoil everything till May runs out of time.

As usual, i agree with Adisa.

 

[balaks]

I didn't live through the troubles myself but my parents did.

Honestly, nobody really knows. I think it's a common misconception that there was ever actually a "hard border" in Ireland. There wasn't, not like this at least. Since the CTA has existed and then IE and the UK entered the EU we have always had no need for customs checks on our border. The border during the troubles was mainly because of the violence and division at the time. We have never actually had one enforced due to customs laws and movement laws and that's the scary thing, it's a complete unknown.

We had to stop our cars at border check points and get searched to get over the border. I remember it well. Was for different reasons if course but the symbolism if it is very important and it would cause utter chaos and set the country back 20 years.

 

[MadMike]

How does that not make sense . Yes trade deals like any other country but are they going to join EFTA or the EEA or be accepted therein?

It doesn't make sense, because nothing is eternal in politics. Currently there is a very strong anti-EU sentiment stirred up in the UK with many vocal MPs behind it. And on the EU side, they don't want to be seen as offering the UK a better deal outside than it has inside. In time tones will soften, from both sides. It was never gonna happen within the 2 year time-frame and before Brexit is delivered.

I personally expect the UK to end up in the EEA via the EFTA. But I may be proven wrong on this, of course. The UK might simply end up with a Canada-style deal of no tariffs on many (but not all) goods. I just think the deal will evolve over time. Nothing is finite.

 

[balaks]

I was more suggesting y'all remember the troubles in general than you remember border issues. I don't think I'm being any more doom-mongering than most in thinking a rise in violence would be an inevitable result of something that ruins the GFA.

It feels like we barely care over here, beyond those very politically minded. Honestly, I live like four miles from the hotel in Brighton where the IRA nearly killed Thatcher and we just don't talk about Northern Ireland at all.

Only this week there has been a worrying increase in violence and tension here with the 'new IRA' shooting at police and throwing explosives at Gerry Adams and other senior republicans houses. They are trying to stir shit up again and the utter mess of BREXIT will feed them when the jobs go away. It's starting already.

 

[cyberman]

We had to stop our cars at border check points and get searched to get over the border. I remember it well. Was for different reasons if course but the symbolism if it is very important and it would cause utter chaos and set the country back 20 years.

Yep, we had to hide our shopping when coming out of Derry back in the day.
Back when punt was king and Derry saved us a fortune.

 

[balaks]

Yep, we had to hide our shopping when coming out of Derry back in the day.
Back when punt was king and Derry saved us a fortune.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Paul the Wolf]

It doesn't make sense, because nothing is eternal in politics. Currently there is a very strong anti-EU sentiment stirred up in the UK with many vocal MPs behind it. And on the EU side, they don't want to be seen as offering the UK a better deal outside than it has inside. In time tones will soften, from both sides. It was never gonna happen within the 2 year time-frame and before Brexit is delivered.

I personally expect the UK to end up in the EEA via the EFTA. But I may be proven wrong on this, of course. The UK might simply end up with a Canada-style deal of no tariffs on many (but not all) goods. I just think the deal will evolve over time. Nothing is finite.

I agree with a lot of what you've been saying overall but once the UK have left, the EU are still not going to change their rules or soften. The UK will get a Canada style deal probably but what's good about that when you've pissed off your biggest customer and made trading goods and services that was easy so complicated and then trying to suck up to a country that is also pissing off the EU thinking they've got a special relationship whereas that special relationship has always only worked one way.

Time, eventually will change things but not that quickly.
The damage done to the UK in the meantime will also dictate what happens in the future.

 

[Dobba]

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[DOTA]

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How sure are we about this? Cause, you know, feck me...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We had to stop our cars at border check points and get searched to get over the border. I remember it well. Was for different reasons if course but the symbolism if it is very important and it would cause utter chaos and set the country back 20 years.

I once went out with a girl who lived in Downpatrick and was on my way to stay at her family home for the first time when I ended up driving up right to the front gate of an army base, thinking it was a border check-point. In a car with Irish plates. Not my finest hour.

 

[MadMike]

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FFS

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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That’s more infuriating than funny. Why are all the opposition parties so cocking useless?! Feck me.

 

[balaks]

I once went out with a girl who lived in Downpatrick and was on my way to stay at her family home for the first time when I ended up driving up right to the front gate of an army base, thinking it was a border check-point. In a car with Irish plates. Not my finest hour.

Yikes

That's about as bad as the time I accidentally drove into a police station (through the gates behind an unmarked police car) cops came running out and I almost got shot as they thought I had a bomb. Not great!

 

[balaks]

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That is infuriating if true. Pack of idiots

 

[Dobba]

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[Pogue Mahone]

Yikes

That's about as bad as the time I accidentally drove into a police station (through the gates behind an unmarked police car) cops came running out and I almost got shot as they thought I had a bomb. Not great!

Really focuses the mind when someone knocks on your car window with a gun, right?

 

[balaks]

Really focuses the mind when someone knocks on your car window with a gun, right?

Oh yeah

 

[Ramshock]

On a personal note this just reinforces the utter lack of giving a shit that this government have to the impact on Northern Ireland. The DUP in supporting this are a fecking disgrace. They have voted to implement a hard border essentially. Absolute pack of turds.

Im hearing some rumblings of discontent from bandit country already

 

[MadMike]

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Those feckers better have a really sound excuse like "I was defusing a bomb" or "I got abducted by aliens".

 

[Ramshock]

In the long run though this will hasten a United Ireland.