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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
That would be pointless. He hasn't got the majority even if all his MPs vote in line with the whip. The opposition would vote it down and pile on his misery.

Yep. I really think he is well and truly checkmated. I really don't see what Boris does at this point. No election and bound by law to ask the EU for an extension, which he has categorically said he won't do.

Great to watch.
 
To anyone stupid enough to actually think that leaving the EU without a deal is going to be the end of all the Brexit problems, please stop and think for a few minutes.
Far from being the end of anything, it will just be the start of the real problems.
Even leaving with a withdrawal agreement will not be the end. It just makes for a smoother transition.
The next stage will be agreement of the future trading arrangements with Europe.
In reality, the only real end to Brexit would indeed be withdrawing A50 and the only way that could possibly happen would be a second referendum.

Agreed.
 
That would be pointless. He hasn't got the majority even if all his MPs vote in line with the whip. The opposition would vote it down and pile on his misery.
But at least he could then make a more compelling case for a GE and when he got one he could frame it as a people v parliament contest. He could ensure that like minded candidates replaced the deselected MP's and, based on the current state of the other parties have a reasonable chance of winning a majority.
 
Yep. I really think he is well and truly checkmated. I really don't see what Boris does at this point. No election and bound by law to ask the EU for an extension, which he has categorically said he won't do.

Great to watch.

I don't think he is check mated yet, that would indicate the game is over, but he's in a very dire situation of his own making.

On the advice of Cummings he tried to act like an autocratic strongman who's in contempt of his party, the Parliament and the people (told them he'd get a deal, when he doesn't even have a plan or proposal and is just running the clock down). But all it did is divide his party and unite the opposition who are now firing at him from all angles.

Best idea is to keep him in place till he breaks the law or steps down. The longer he's under the spotlight the more his incompetence shows and the more his aura wanes. Another month of this and the rest of the party could turn on him while the voters leave him for Farage.
 
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To anyone stupid enough to actually think that leaving the EU without a deal is going to be the end of all the Brexit problems, please stop and think for a few minutes.
Far from being the end of anything, it will just be the start of the real problems.
Even leaving with a withdrawal agreement will not be the end. It just makes for a smoother transition.
The next stage will be agreement of the future trading arrangements with Europe.
In reality, the only real end to Brexit would indeed be withdrawing A50 and the only way that could possibly happen would be a second referendum.
Yup, all the businesses that go bust, the lives that are ruined.....it’ll definitely be all quiet on the brexit front :wenger:
 
But at least he could then make a more compelling case for a GE and when he got one he could frame it as a people v parliament contest. He could ensure that like minded candidates replaced the deselected MP's and, based on the current state of the other parties have a reasonable chance of winning a majority.

How is that case any more compelling than it is now? He's got no majority, he's impotent and in a legislative bind. He's already gonna frame the election as People vs Parliament regardless, we know that.

Why would he risk alienating the hard core Brexiteers after he kicked the moderates out? He'd also need to do a 180. He told everyone a million times the WAB is dead and backstop is undemocratic. Putting that on the floor again will see him lose any little integrity he has left.
 
No other country would leave though, they know leaving the EU whether in the Eurozone or not will severely damage their economy, Eurozone is an added complication admittedly as the GFA is for the UK.
But it's the EU countries themselves that have decided to operate this way.

Anyone can leave but there are consequences.

Democratic will led to them joining and democratic will may one day lead to them wanting to leave but they will have little practical mechanism to do so. They've set off in a direction of travel that will be incredibly hard to change which is why the hotel California reference works.
 
To anyone stupid enough to actually think that leaving the EU without a deal is going to be the end of all the Brexit problems, please stop and think for a few minutes.
Far from being the end of anything, it will just be the start of the real problems.
Even leaving with a withdrawal agreement will not be the end. It just makes for a smoother transition.
The next stage will be agreement of the future trading arrangements with Europe.
In reality, the only real end to Brexit would indeed be withdrawing A50 and the only way that could possibly happen would be a second referendum.

It's actually even worse - not only the relationships with the EU but with the whole world including current relationships with countries that have agreements with the EU and this is even true after the transition period with the WA ratified.
The Uk will become a completely different entity when they leave.
 
Can they rule to not rule? They'll have to give a verdict of guilty or innocent, they're the Supreme Court there's no one else higher to palm constitutional matters to.

So If a PM has a large majority, bullies his MPs to vote down any VONC and breaks every law in the land... the Supreme Court will not rule on that?
Honestly, no one knows. It's completely uncharted territory.

Let's say the Supreme Court does rule that the government or Prime Minister is acting illegally... then what? If the government refuses to comply with the court, it falls on parliament again to execute a vote of no confidence and remove the government. I can't see a court dragging a sitting prime minister away in handcuffs and locking them up. They'd throw it back to parliament to implement if the government refused to comply with the court, I'd guess.

And even then, it ultimately rests on the people to take to the streets if the government is refusing to obey the courts and the law. That's ultimately the only real protection against fascism that exists.
 
I think this week shows that Johnson is really shite at politics. Like Trump, he could, I guess, legitimately claim to be an outsider in this sense.

Also, a famous slacker, he looks knackered already. Seems he has neither the ethic no stamina for the premiership.
 
How is that case any more compelling than it is now? He's got no majority, he's impotent and in a legislative bind. He's already gonna frame the election as People vs Parliament regardless, we know that.

Why would he risk alienating the hard core Brexiteers after he kicked the moderates out? He'd also need to do a 180. He told everyone a million times the WAB is dead and backstop is undemocratic. Putting that on the floor again will see him lose any little integrity he has left.
I think he knows it is closer to getting through than no deal. So if he wants the UK to leave the EU then that is the only game in town and he needs to do something with it. Even if he kowtows and asks for an extension and then Corbyn says right we'll have the GE on our terms now, Johnson will still have a strong hand with leavers because he can say that he was forced by parliament to extend and that law has now prevented no deal. In that situation the EU will be even less inclined to move. So May's deal will be the only option. To get it through Johnson will have to win the election with a much reduced number of Tory dissenters but enough of a majority as to not need the DUP. Then the border goes down the Irish sea and May's deal has a chance.

The Brexit party will row in behind the Tories in the GE because 1. No deal will be gone and 2. Labour, SNP Greens, LibDems and Plaid will coalesce around 2nd Ref /remain/ or softest Brexit possible. So the WA followed by a negotiation of a FTA would be the best available outcome for them.
 
Honestly, no one knows. It's completely uncharted territory.

Let's say the Supreme Court does rule that the government or Prime Minister is acting illegally... then what? If the government refuses to comply with the court, it falls on parliament again to execute a vote of no confidence and remove the government. I can't see a court dragging a sitting prime minister away in handcuffs and locking them up. They'd throw it back to parliament to implement if the government refused to comply with the court, I'd guess.

And even then, it ultimately rests on the people to take to the streets if the government is refusing to obey the courts and the law. That's ultimately the only real protection against fascism that exists.

If he’s breaking laws made by Parliament with impunity, what stops him from breaking another one and deciding against giving up power even in the event of a VONC?

If the Supreme Court can’t prosecute and drag a sitting Prime Minister away in handcuffs for breaking laws... then we have a dictatorship. Of all the people in the land the PM is the one who really shouldn’t be invulnerable to the Courts, due to the immense power he holds. The Courts are supposed to uphold the laws and by definition, keep the Executive in check.

Woe be us if they can’t do that.
 
I'm sure a supreme court Judge could order the arrest of the PM. Though it is complete bizarre and a sign of the times that this is a conversation that even needs to be had.
 
I think this week shows that Johnson is really shite at politics. Like Trump, he could, I guess, legitimately claim to be an outsider in this sense.

Also, a famous slacker, he looks knackered already. Seems he has neither the ethic no stamina for the premiership.

Trump has at least managed to foster a reliable base of voters who are rabidly loyal to him as an individual. Which means that, for all his unpopularity on a wider scale, he holds a significant amount of sway within his own party. He can change some of his primary views or stances and his core base will still back him.

Any popularity of Boris' is entirely vested in Brexit though...were he to abandon his push for No Deal, he'd lose votes to the BXP almost immediately. For someone so well-known and so important, he really doesn't have anything resembling a loyal base of voters loyal to him as an individual.
 
I think this week shows that Johnson is really shite at politics. Like Trump, he could, I guess, legitimately claim to be an outsider in this sense.

Also, a famous slacker, he looks knackered already. Seems he has neither the ethic no stamina for the premiership.

Trump is shite at politics but he spins it as not being part of the establishment and being there, as an outsider, to “drain the swamp”. BoJo is as part of the establishment as one can be. Etonian, Bullingdon and career politician.

Never mind premiership. He’s hardly a Championship level politician.
 
  • Johnson claimed it would be possible to do a trade deal with the US that would cover beef without allowing American hormone-treated meat in to the UK. Talking about the opportunities available to the UK after Brexit, he said:
Look at fantastic Scottish beef, which I’ve just been looking at. Not a morsel of it currently goes to America. You could do a a free trade deal with America where you don’t import their hormone-treated beef, but you do a deal on high-quality products, you allow Scottish farmers to sell, to discover new markets around the world.

Leavers will send an answer on a postcard to Boris why Scottish beef is not sold to the USA and who is preventing Scottish farmers from doing so. Hint: the answer is not the EU.
 
Boris Johnson says he will use 'powers of persuasion' to get Brexit deal from EU
:lol: times a billion.
 
It's actually even worse - not only the relationships with the EU but with the whole world including current relationships with countries that have agreements with the EU and this is even true after the transition period with the WA ratified.
The Uk will become a completely different entity when they leave.

You see. This is exactly the type of detailed information we should have been given at the time of the referendum.
Yes we had all the so called project fear stuff which probably went over many peoples heads.
But, and I may well have missed it, the actual leaving process step by step including what would happen after leaving was not at all clear.
All the informatoon we really had was a total pack of lies on one side to emotive scare stories.
The proof of that is that we are still finding out basic things over 3 years down the line.
 
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'Four days in Parliament and he looks like a concerned relative has found him drinking heavily and shouting at pigeons in a bin''
 
I haven't seen much of him tbh, it's just that his name always keeps popping up whenever Labour do something in the House that's effective. He might not be a great performer but he appears to be a solid politician. He also seems quite good at getting his point across, albeit through boredom.
Listen to him talk he has a dreary monotone voice that could send insomniacs to sleep.
 
EDw7ZWmVUAAYF7T

'Four days in Parliament and he looks like a concerned relative has found him drinking heavily and shouting at pigeons in a bin''
He looks like the homeless guy on the bench outside my local church. All that he needs is a bottle of White Lightning.
 
EDw7ZWmVUAAYF7T

'Four days in Parliament and he looks like a concerned relative has found him drinking heavily and shouting at pigeons in a bin''

Has she ever been photographed meeting Corbyn privately, off-air?
 
She's telling him not to worry about being unable to get an extension, and that it happens more often than he thinks.
 
She's telling him not to worry about being unable to get an extension, and that it happens more often than he thinks.

You should have gone with election instead of extension, it's literally one letter off the word you're insinuating.

Fail :nono:
 
That's not an off-air private meeting mate, in the middle of the day with paps around, c'mon :lol:

It's not broadcast, and it's not preparation for a broadcast. And it seems like no-one else is part of the conversation. That would be off-air and private.

Let's just say it doesn't surprise me that Kuenssberg wouldn't cultivate that sort of relationship with left-wing Labour figures.
 
That is more than likely what they would say.

There have been two legal rulings now that have effectively thrown out the charges against Boris, one in Scotland, one in England, for proroguing Parliament, which tends to suggest the higher courts are extremely reluctant to rule against anything where the HM as head of state as already agreed to such actions since that could produce the biggest upset to our Constitution of all thats currently going on.

The Crown is the Supreme Authority, Judges, the Supreme Court etc and all, receive their authority from it, and the Crown in the guise of the reigning monarch (allegedly) gets it from God. Whoa there... sort that one out, could we be seeing the beginning of birth i.e. going into Labour (excuse the pun)) of the first Republic since Cromwell's Commonwealth?

Brexit is and has become, 'a battle royal'
Yeah but this is getting Royal assent so that means to break it you are breaking the Crown's Supreme Authority.
 
It's not broadcast, and it's not preparation for a broadcast. And it seems like no-one else is part of the conversation. That would be off-air and private.

Let's just say it doesn't surprise me that Kuenssberg wouldn't cultivate that sort of relationship with left-wing Labour figures.

Jesus, so much extrapolation! Do you have more information regard this picture or something?
 
Revoking A50 would be another mockery of referendum and democracy. Brexit will have to happen, its a matter of which interpretation of it happens and how to so soften the blow. The opposition will have to run against Johnson on a platform based on some version of a deal May negotiated, whether they like it or not.
A general election is not a referendum on Brexit. 15% of people who plan to vote Tory in the next election see themselves as remainers. There will be a large percentage of people who will vote Labour who see themselves as Brexiteers.

The only way to sort this mess out is to have another referendum on Brexit. That is what the Remainer parties should stand on.
 
It's not broadcast, and it's not preparation for a broadcast. And it seems like no-one else is part of the conversation. That would be off-air and private.

Let's just say it doesn't surprise me that Kuenssberg wouldn't cultivate that sort of relationship with left-wing Labour figures.
Are you joking? She's a journalist. I'm not her biggest fan, but come on, this is literally her job.
 
I don't fully understand where Rees Mogg gets his confidence.

I don't wish to appear like I condone bullying, but there can't be many schools on the planet where he wouldn't have ended up with at least a small stammer or a nervous twitch?
His type is what Harry Potter is based on. The school he went to Eaton it doesn't matter how big or small you are, how smart or dumb you are. All that matters is the amount of standing your father's father's father made by working 12 year old children to death in cloth mills or work houses and the like.
 
It's not broadcast, and it's not preparation for a broadcast. And it seems like no-one else is part of the conversation. That would be off-air and private.

Let's just say it doesn't surprise me that Kuenssberg wouldn't cultivate that sort of relationship with left-wing Labour figures.
Have you listened to Brexitcast?

The journos spend most of their time having “dont quote me” chats with MPs. Its definitely not just linked to one party.