[The United]

We can agree to that.

Overall, I think it is important to remind ourselves, that football these days is more than just "raise the level" as if players only have to surpass a certain level of good to somehow create a great team all of a sudden. Not that I don't agree with you, that the team has to step up, but seeing the collective aspects of the game so prominent like in the last years, only going for "good" or "great" players (just because they are good or great) will still leave us lacking in behind. (Even though I am happy to confirm that this absolutely seemed like our modus operandi (even in Fergies last years) )

Well, you can use whatever term you want. Also, the team's performance has largely to do with the manager as well. People may deny that, but that's what it is. I am not sure if ETH can get us there because I have no idea if he can set up his midfield right for where he wants us to go (well if we let him keep buying players).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Absolutely brilliant footballer. Can really do everything, except tackle. But makes up for that by running so hard. I love the Bruno that plays a little deeper because we can see his superb passing range. He’s such a threat too. Lucky to have him.

Wut?!

 

[abailey123]

Captain fantastic today really stood up when we needed him to

 

[Someone]

Had a very good game today. The best he has played in a long time. Long may it continue.

 

[simonhch]

Wut?!

He’s not a great tackler. He’s ferocious in duels and often wins them because of his determination, but he’s not a great tackler. He has work rate and determination, which can amount to a lot of the same effect, but on a technical basis, he’s not a great tackler.

I was actually in the midst of saying what an amazing player he is.

 

[Bwuk]

I find it mental that people on here don’t rate him.

Hes the best in his position in the league after KdB.

 

[jesperjaap]

We have fans that want this guy dropped or even sold and don't think he's good enough to be captain. Absolutely mental.

Cant comment on todays game as not seen it. But he does have a 4.3 rating on the forum so far this season, doesnt that say something?

Personally, didnt want him made captain, would have chose others. DOnt want him dropped or sold......I think the gripe a lot of fans have isnt actually that at all. It is more a frustration with him in games and over a season performance wise when being labelled world class, the stats brigade come out, he is a good player, very good at times, but in 3.4seasons his overall performances have been overhypef.

I do think he needs competition, should always be that at a big club. What is bad is he has that now from our big summer signings....signed to play as a numbe r8 when he isnt a number 8......weir transfer move as Fernandes, certainly isnt th eproblem, that is obvious.....but he also isnt the salvation

 

[ThanksBoss26]

Captain fantastic today really stood up when we needed him to

Definitely.

 

[Semper Fudge]

There's a reason opposition fans hate him, and it's not just the drama. He's fantastic.

 

[The United]

Cant comment on todays game as not seen it. But he does have a 4.3 rating on the forum so far this season, doesnt that say something?

Personally, didnt want him made captain, would have chose others. DOnt want him dropped or sold......I think the gripe a lot of fans have isnt actually that at all. It is more a frustration with him in games and over a season performance wise when being labelled world class, the stats brigade come out, he is a good player, very good at times, but in 3.4seasons his overall performances have been overhypef.

I do think he needs competition, should always be that at a big club. What is bad is he has that now from our big summer signings....signed to play as a numbe r8 when he isnt a number 8......weir transfer move as Fernandes, certainly isnt th eproblem, that is obvious.....but he also isnt the salvation

TBF, the likes of VDB, Eriksen, and even Mount (Pogba in the past) can be his competitors for the same spot. But if a player is pushing out stats like that and you don't have any advantage in dropping him because the alternatives are not even close to his overall quality, no manager would do that. And if we had the means to sign a player that could actually challenge him, that caliber of player should go to some other positions first. He is not the salivation because the standard of the team is not there yet for anyone to come in as the 'salivation'.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Our most important player. Sure, he can be frustrating and when he is bad then he is really bad but he is a midfielder who scores, who creates and whos work rate is always high.

 

[VivaObertan]

He really is the best outfield player we've had post-SAF. Enjoy him!

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Incredible game. Hopefully continues.

 

[KjaAnd]

Yes, he can be frustrating as hell, but he's our most creative player and the least of our problems. There's a reason De Bruyne picked him when asked about the best 10 in the league (ahead of Ødegaard).

 

[NZT-One]

Well, you can use whatever term you want. Also, the team's performance has largely to do with the manager as well. People may deny that, but that's what it is. I am not sure if ETH can get us there because I have no idea if he can set up his midfield right for where he wants us to go (well if we let him keep buying players).

Fully onboard of that.

TBF, the likes of VDB, Eriksen, and even Mount (Pogba in the past) can be his competitors for the same spot. But if a player is pushing out stats like that and you don't have any advantage in dropping him because the alternatives are not even close to his overall quality, no manager would do that. And if we had the means to sign a player that could actually challenge him, that caliber of player should go to some other positions first. He is not the salivation because the standard of the team is not there yet for anyone to come in as the 'salivation'.

I will only speak for myself but think, others might share my view: Assists and Goals are not the only measurements to evaluate a player by. Obviously they are very very important but they are not the only ones. My gripe with Bruno is, he is instinctly playing a very rash style. Always looking for the killer ball and with his majestic vision and his awesome ability to execute passes he is a very very productive player. We are playing this sort of style for quite a while. LVG had the complete opposite, Mourinho didn't really have a style but his strong defense, fast attacking thing was pretty close. Under Ole this became the go to thing and with him, Bruno came who absolutely thrived. Because of him and his form AND because of Rashford, who is also built for this kind of football, Ole built the team around and had the success he had (but also the failures). Right now, I think the team would benefit, if they would add another way of playing the game to the repertoire. Long seasons and many matches require to be able to be efficient with your energy and because this "be as vertically as possible, whenever possible" leads to a frantic game, I think we are really missing out on things. Todays game is a very good example at that. We played 20minutes against ten men but we were either not willing nor capable to keep the ball, move it around. Instead, the match got unnecessarily tense in the end.

This is a team issue, as you state. But this team issue cannot be separated from two players, our two more or less best players - Rashford and Bruno. To adapt the game would mean moving away from something, those two are really good at. So the discussion is or should be, is it worth adapting to something the whole team would benefit from even if it means two of our best players wouldn't be as instrumental anymore (! probably, we don't even know that, maybe Bruno and Rashford would suprise in a different setup). Creativity doesn't have to be channeled through one or two players. Look at Brighton, they are creating many chances but they don't have a talent (at least not in my mind) like Bruno to create stuff for them. So it definitely is possible to stay creative and create chances even without a Bruno calibre player.

 

[The United]

I will only speak for myself but think, others might share my view: Assists and Goals are not the only measurements to evaluate a player by. Obviously they are very very important but they are not the only ones. My gripe with Bruno is, he is instinctly playing a very rash style. Always looking for the killer ball and with his majestic vision and his awesome ability to execute passes he is a very very productive player. We are playing this sort of style for quite a while. LVG had the complete opposite, Mourinho didn't really have a style but his strong defense, fast attacking thing was pretty close. Under Ole this became the go to thing and with him, Bruno came who absolutely thrived. Because of him and his form AND because of Rashford, who is also built for this kind of football, Ole built the team around and had the success he had (but also the failures). Right now, I think the team would benefit, if they would add another way of playing the game to the repertoire. Long seasons and many matches require to be able to be efficient with your energy and because this "be as vertically as possible, whenever possible" leads to a frantic game, I think we are really missing out on things. Todays game is a very good example at that. We played 20minutes against ten men but we were either not willing nor capable to keep the ball, move it around. Instead, the match got unnecessarily tense in the end.

This is a team issue, as you state. But this team issue cannot be separated from two players, our two more or less best players - Rashford and Bruno. To adapt the game would mean moving away from something, those two are really good at. So the discussion is or should be, is it worth adapting to something the whole team would benefit from even if it means two of our best players wouldn't be as instrumental anymore (! probably, we don't even know that, maybe Bruno and Rashford would suprise in a different setup). Creativity doesn't have to be channeled through one or two players. Look at Brighton, they are creating many chances but they don't have a talent (at least not in my mind) like Bruno to create stuff for them. So it definitely is possible to stay creative and create chances even without a Bruno calibre player.

My point is that if the team does not have the ability to create as a whole, you would still have to rely on the likes of Bruno and Rashford. And we are not exactly building towards that so far (Imo), or it will take a while if we are doing that. The fund should go to get "system players" for other positions first instead of trying to replace them. Until then, there is not much point in talking about how the 'system' team without Bruno would perform. Right now, this team would not go too far without Bruno.

 

[Malone_Post]

Thought he was absolutely outstanding today. Not just for what he did on the ball but for his work rate, effort and leadership too. A real captains performance.

 

[foolsgold]

He must be pretty frustrated to see so many of the chances he created fluffed. Outstanding performance today.

 

[podurban2]

He’s an absolute gem. But it’s high risk high reward. He needs players to make the best of what he produces. Hopefully Højlund and an in-form Rashy can provide just that.

 

[samlee86]

By far and away our best player.

Pros:

• Creates chances for fun
• Works his socks of every game in any position asked
• Great penalty taker

Cons:

• Not the best finisher. Missed some easy chances already this season
• Likes a moan when things are going well

Overall no player in our team can match his output.

I would personally play in a front three on the right instead of Antony. There he can play with the freedom to create chances galore.

 

[Frank Grimes]

my motm

 

[Alemar]

Goal, assist and got Nottingham defender a red card. MotM performance

 

[spiriticon]

He would be so much better if he could learn how to control the tempo of games.

He plays always with his heart, good or bad.

 

[M Bison]

One of my favourite moments from yesterday, pure grit and determination.


https://x.com/utdfaithfuls/status/1695721279897182231?s=46&t=5fcYrP8BG2yNzXP6B_ugPg

 

[Scandi Red]

Genuinely one of the best players I've seen to not win a big trophy yet.

 

[lex talionis]

The man who kept us in the game and eventually win it.

 

[NZT-One]

My point is that if the team does not have the ability to create as a whole, you would still have to rely on the likes of Bruno and Rashford. And we are not exactly building towards that so far (Imo), or it will take a while if we are doing that. The fund should go to get "system players" for other positions first instead of trying to replace them. Until then, there is not much point in talking about how the 'system' team without Bruno would perform. Right now, this team would not go too far without Bruno.

I am with you here, the transition wouldn't be easy and shouldn't be taken too lightly. It will be hard. But as you say, how often or how long do we want to skip this step in favor of "this team". And I would think, many of our current players would already be ready to play a different kind of football. Shaw, Varane, Martinez, Eriksen, Casemiro, Antony, maybe even Martial and Sancho. They might look even better in a less frantic way of playing that often highlights their physical issues and sometimes not emphasizes their technical abilities as much.

One of my favourite moments from yesterday, pure grit and determination.


https://x.com/utdfaithfuls/status/1695721279897182231?s=46&t=5fcYrP8BG2yNzXP6B_ugPg

Definitely a great moment of him

 

[Poborsky's hair]

One of my favourite moments from yesterday, pure grit and determination.


https://x.com/utdfaithfuls/status/1695721279897182231?s=46&t=5fcYrP8BG2yNzXP6B_ugPg

That double slide tackle was great, overall his application was very good and not as wasteful as usual, hopefulyl he can keep pushing from this performance.

 

[Lyng]

He would be so much better if he could learn how to control the tempo of games.

He plays always with his heart, good or bad.

Not really his job though. His job is to be a creative machine, and he is one of the best in the world at that.

 

[zaafi]

Not really his job though. His job is to be a creative machine, and he is one of the best in the world at that.

And also why we're never going to have control in midfield as long as he plays there. It's not his main task, but it would help tremendously as you can see how it works with Ødegaard and Arsenal.

 

[bringbackbebe]

It was like watching Keane at times. We finally have a proper Manchester United captain after Vidic.

 

[Bastian]

Tweet

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This impressed me by far the most yesterday. If all our players showed that level of commitment we'd be in great shape (as long as it's not Phil Jones/Eric Bailly level of recklessness).

 

[The United]

I am with you here, the transition wouldn't be easy and shouldn't be taken too lightly. It will be hard. But as you say, how often or how long do we want to skip this step in favor of "this team". And I would think, many of our current players would already be ready to play a different kind of football. Shaw, Varane, Martinez, Eriksen, Casemiro, Antony, maybe even Martial and Sancho. They might look even better in a less frantic way of playing that often highlights their physical issues and sometimes not emphasizes their technical abilities as much.


Definitely a great moment of him

Out of those players, I think Antony, Martinez, and maybe Shaw can play in a 'system' team for the long term. Varane is hardly a ball-playing defender. You might want to closely look at Casemiro's passing, and if anything, he is the most reckless one at times, considering the position he plays. Eriksen does not have the legs to play in an intense 'system' team. We all know where Martial is heading, and there is a question mark on Sancho. It showed how terrible or unlucky our squad building has been for years, and little has been shown that it is building up to something like a Pep's system team.

But saying all that, who is to say ETH even wants to build like Pep's team? He may even want to build his squad like Fergie's or Klopp's, who rely more on 'moments'. If so, these discussions make even less sense as long as he is here. All they would do is pretty much shitting (unnecessarily at times) on one of our best players because people like to see us play a different way which he has no control of.

 

[giggs-beckham]

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This impressed me by far the most yesterday. If all our players showed that level of commitment we'd be in great shape (as long as it's not Phil Jones/Eric Bailly level of recklessness).

That's his job

 

[Pickle85]

That's his job

So praising him for doing it well is, what, wrong?

 

[Bastian]

That's his job

Sure. It is. How many are doing their jobs here?

 

[tomaldinho1]

So praising him for doing it well is, what, wrong?

Think it’s a Roy Keane gag FYI

 

[roonster09]

Very good performance by him, apart from his creativity his off the ball runs are very good. Created the chance for Casemiro and the red card with his off the ball runs. Hope he plays higher up the pitch, he is much better as attacking mid with license to make those runs.

 

[frostbite]

Bruno and Rashford are our best players.

 

[Escobar]

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This impressed me by far the most yesterday. If all our players showed that level of commitment we'd be in great shape (as long as it's not Phil Jones/Eric Bailly level of recklessness).

We lack this kind of determination in the team.
Great to see that his form is improving, we need that