I agree, correct me if I'm wrong but how it's done in most cases is the manager work out the general tactic they want to develop and coaches work on specifics to implement that plan am I correct?Well Solskjaer letting the first team coaches, coach the first team is not exactly the same thing as Solskjaer saying he's ''not a tactical coach''.
Well they can be prime Barca in training but if they don't show it in games what's the use? Of course they'll be judged according to what the team shows on games.Well it is about Ole, they are his choices. The coaching clearly is a 3 way thing.
I’m not sure it’s about their quality per se. What’s Phelan there for, a conduit between Ole and the players?
It was reported a while back that they are faster in training but at times they are pedestrian in games. It’s too easy to blame the coaches
Yeah, if he was an inspirational leader, I'd not have any problem with him being a leader-type manager. I've yet to see that though.Yeah I agree with you, what I got from that "leader" type of manager is that he's a man management coach, which is a nice attribute to have but I think it was strange for him to said that. Most coaches like to be recognized more from their tactics rather than their man management skills basically because tactics impact the game directly while man management is kind of a PR job to keep players happy implying that the players by themselves are the ones to get the titles which would take merit from the coach.
Anyway I wouldn't mind him being a leader manager or whatever if we had capable people taking care of the tactical side, but we don't. I mean there are some clearly specific problems with the team that are not being corrected. The most obvious is set pieces, that's clearly a coaching problem and no man management is going to solve that. Someone should be held accountable for it, weather that's Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan or all of them who knows.
I’m not convinced they told Victor to let his man go so easily. Sure that’s not in the training sessions.It's easy to pin everything on coaches, but if you've got a manager who has dozens of times moaned about our set piece defending, surely there's a problem. And there's obviously a problem breaking down organised deep defenses. That's not merely a lack-of-world-class-players problem, it's a coaching issue (for which the manager is responsible).
But this thing about training. We hear that a bit, how amazing we are in training. Now we can take that a face value and assume that it's a problem with mentality, but are we really this special in training and what value does that have to trot out that line? I mean, unless it's to support a hapless striker on a longer barren run, saying that he's banging them in in training, I don't see how being this or that in training has any meaning. We've got a big sample size of how we are in actual matches. And it indicates that we are bereft of ideas too often, our tempo is too low, we struggle to defend set pieces, and we don't have too much of a tactical flexibility, never mind in terms of lineup.
That seems to me to be mostly a coaching issue.
I agree, what the use of having a happy squad if the results are mediocre? I mean Zidane gets praised for the same thing but the difference is that he won titles.Yeah, if he was an inspirational leader, I'd not have any problem with him being a leader-type manager. I've yet to see that though.
His man management skills are massively praised on here, and he's definitely changed the atmosphere for the better, but you're on borrowed time while you're not winning things. A while without winning things won't have players buzzing about your man management. And you could ask, what's that ability for, to keep a team content, or to get the best out of a team? It's not always the same thing.
He's obviously modelling himself on SAF who was the leader. But SAF had so many strings to his bow, not least the ability to identify where he could improve and/or delegate.
I think it would be healthy for Ole - most definitely for the team - to have top pedigree coaches in here who may challenge his and the other coaches' ideas.
I don't know. If it happens time and again, and the manager complains about it after the fact, isn't it something that needs addressing by the coaches? It is the manager who picks the team, also the players who go missing during set pieces. Plenty of lesser teams manage to be more solid during set pieces. And it's not just Victor, Harry has shut off, AWB has seriously lapsed in his concentration/positioning, in key games too.I’m not convinced they told Victor to let his man go so easily. Sure that’s not in the training sessions.
If anything it’s sports psychology they should be focusing on
Yeah, it seems to be a point that goes completely missing on the Caf.I agree, what the use of having a happy squad if the results are mediocre? I mean Zidane gets praised for the same thing but the difference is that he won titles.
I think his man management has been overblown because the base ground is taken from Mourinho's lowest point we're the team was as toxic as it can get. But that's not a normal situation, for all we know Arteta has a happy squad as well. They're shit but happy.
I think it's very evident how competent these guys are.You have no idea how competent they are.
Agreed 100%.This thread is about right.Ole is a good (man)manager but not the best coach in class.We need an upgrade on these two.
I agree completely, but there are some posters on here, who may actually be blind. They can't see what is happening on the pitch, to conclude that our coaching is really letting us down.Yeah I’ve said in another thread that we should be looking to be improving our coaching list as well as our playing list. Weather that’s replacing somebody or just bringing in a new face or two I don’t know. But a blind man can see we can do with improvements in our set up on and off the field.
So Fergie was just a PR guy?Yeah I agree with you, what I got from that "leader" type of manager is that he's a man management coach, which is a nice attribute to have but I think it was strange for him to said that. Most coaches like to be recognized more from their tactics rather than their man management skills basically because tactics impact the game directly while man management is kind of a PR job to keep players happy implying that the players by themselves are the ones to get the titles which would take merit from the coach.
How do you coach Lindelof or Bailly to be better in the air?Anyway I wouldn't mind him being a leader manager or whatever if we had capable people taking care of the tactical side, but we don't. I mean there are some clearly specific problems with the team that are not being corrected. The most obvious is set pieces, that's clearly a coaching problem and no man management is going to solve that. Someone should be held accountable for it, weather that's Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan or all of them who knows.
When and where did he say this though?I agree, correct me if I'm wrong but how it's done in most cases is the manager work out the general tactic they want to develop and coaches work on specifics to implement that plan am I correct?
But Ole made it sound as if he had no input at all, which is kind of strange.
Fergie was much more than just a man management coach, to think otherwise is plain wrong and not even worth discussing.So Fergie was just a PR guy?
Well if it's all the players fault I guess we have the poorest squad to defend on the air in the league. Because that's the way we performed, I mean there are other 19 teams that defend set pieces better than us. Do that makes sense to you?How do you coach Lindelof or Bailly to be better in the air?
Might as well try to coach Fred to be at shooting or coach Maguire to have more pace. All players have physical and technical ceilings that no amount of coaching can improve beyond a certain point. We are poor at defending set pieces because shock horror most of our defenders bar Maguire are poor in the air.
He didn't say it plainly obviously that's why I said "he makes it sound" as an interpretation.When and where did he say this though?
Do you have a link to a quote or video where he says that?
What do I take from your interpretation of something Solskjaer ''makes it sound'' like he may or may not have said?He didn't say it plainly obviously that's why I said "he makes it sound" as an interpretation.
Cant remember the exact quote but it was discussed deeply in this forum, he was questioned about tactics and he say he was more about a leader coach than a tactic coach. What to take from that? Well it's anybody's guess, I took it as if he said he doesn't put input into coaching, like saying he doesn't take care about that but more about leadership, you can take whatever you want from the quote it's just my personal interpretation about it.
Surely you must have seen SAF on the touchline? He doesn't sit on his seat most of the time, especially if we are playing bad. He lets the players know then and there without any hesitations. I can't see SAF lets Rashford get away with being so selfish in every game by trying to dribble past 4 players. The one match Ronaldo tried it SAF made him cry.So Fergie was just a PR guy?
How do you coach Lindelof or Bailly to be better in the air?
Might as well try to coach Fred to be at shooting or coach Maguire to have more pace. All players have physical and technical ceilings that no amount of coaching can improve beyond a certain point. We are poor at defending set pieces because shock horror most of our defenders bar Maguire are poor in the air.
Im not saying you take anything from my interpretation, that'd be silly. Look for the quote yourself and form your own opinion then we can discuss.What do I take from your interpretation of something Solskjaer ''makes it sound'' like he may or may not have said?
I don't take much from it mate to be honest, I'd have to see or hear the actual quote.
I do not see anything of SAF in him. Certainly not during the match and nor during his press conference. All past players said that they were very frightened of SAF. I do not think the players are afraid of Ole.Yeah, if he was an inspirational leader, I'd not have any problem with him being a leader-type manager. I've yet to see that though.
His man management skills are massively praised on here, and he's definitely changed the atmosphere for the better, but you're on borrowed time while you're not winning things. A while without winning things won't have players buzzing about your man management. And you could ask, what's that ability for, to keep a team content, or to get the best out of a team? It's not always the same thing.
He's obviously modelling himself on SAF who was the leader. But SAF had so many strings to his bow, not least the ability to identify where he could improve and/or delegate.
I think it would be healthy for Ole - most definitely for the team - to have top pedigree coaches in here who may challenge his and the other coaches' ideas.
Not just Lindelof but also Bailly and Tuanzebe. They're so awful that even having Maguire, who according to the same posters is one of the best CBs in the league, they manage to be the poorest defense at set pieces in the league.Surely you must have seen SAF on the touchline? He doesn't sit on his seat most of the time, especially if we are playing bad. He lets the players know then and there without any hesitations. I can't see SAF lets Rashford get away with being so selfish in every game by trying to dribble past 4 players. The one match Ronaldo tried it SAF made him cry.
As for Lindelof according to most people, any CB from the PL would be better than him. Ole has been here for two and half seasons now. Get another CB and sell Lindelof.
Good glad we agree, Solskajer still has it all to prove in the management world he's not just a ''PR guy'' either or a ''man management coach'' whatever that is. He's the manager, he picks the team and decides the tactics, formation and strategy.Fergie was much more than just a man management coach, to think otherwise is plain wrong and not even worth discussing.
Is that actually true though? Did we concede the most set piece goals in the league?Well if it's all the players fault I guess we have the poorest squad to defend on the air in the league. Because that's the way we performed, I mean there are other 19 teams that defend set pieces better than us. Do that makes sense to you?
There's a point when you can't blame it purely on the players, we may not have the greatest defenders but damn to blame just the players when we are the worst team in set pieces in the league is to blind ourselves about coaching.
I watched the Fergie documentary Never Give In tonight and Ole is about as far away from SAF as you can get.I do not see anything of SAF in him. Certainly not during the match and nor during his press conference. All past players said that they were very frightened of SAF. I do not think the players are afraid of Ole.
The situation is really different, SAF was not only respected and feared but also admired. Players knew they were working with the best.I do not see anything of SAF in him. Certainly not during the match and nor during his press conference. All past players said that they were very frightened of SAF. I do not think the players are afraid of Ole.
It's true, there's a thread in this forum with that stat. We are second worst at defending set pieces and worst overall (combined at defending and scoring).Good glad we agree, Solskajer still has it all to prove in the management world he's not just a ''PR guy'' either or a ''man management coach'' whatever that is. He's the manager, he picks the team and decides the tactics, formation and strategy.
Is that actually true though? Did we concede the most set piece goals in the league?
It's not all the players fault, but Lindelof plays nearly every game. Do you think Lindelof is good/strong in the air? If not what can the coaches do to coach him to be better/stronger in the air?
It worked at Liverpool. VVD instantly improved them and I’d say that was alongside centre backs not as good as Harry Maguire. It seems a bizarre thing to suggest that a world class player, in any position, won’t improve us.Just bring a world class CB won't magically improve our defence. We need to stop making mistakes from set pieces, and stop relying so much on individual brilliance to break teams down. This is on coaching. Not just Ole, but his coaching staff.
An upgrade is required.
Once or twice over the years mate yeah.Surely you must have seen SAF on the touchline? He doesn't sit on his seat most of the time, especially if we are playing bad. He lets the players know then and there without any hesitations.
So Ronaldo tried to dribble past 4 players one time (only one time) and Ferguson made him cry?I can't see SAF lets Rashford get away with being so selfish in every game by trying to dribble past 4 players. The one match Ronaldo tried it SAF made him cry.
He's sold Rojo, Smalling and tried to sell Jones. It's a process a new defender seems to be high on the priority list. If one is signed then Lindelof becomes a back-up.As for Lindelof according to most people, any CB from the PL would be better than him. Ole has been here for two and half seasons now. Get another CB and sell Lindelof.
Against Benfica in the CL.Once or twice over the years mate yeah.
Jesus this thread is bordering on the insane. The amount of time a coach sits in his seat is now an indicator of their ability as a manager. And to think we've another 2-3 months of this shit until the seasons starts again.
So Ronaldo tried to dribble past 4 players one time (only one time) and Ferguson made him cry?
What? When was this?
He's sold Rojo, Smalling and tried to sell Jones. It's a process a new defender seems to be high on the priority list. If one is signed then Lindelof becomes a back-up.
Well to be fair I could Google it if you told me what he actually said in this quote?Im not saying you take anything from my interpretation, that'd be silly. Look for the quote yourself and form your own opinion then we can discuss.
I tried to look for it but couldn't find it, sorry mate can't help you with this one. I remember it being discussed here for a long time, but I can't exactly remember the thread name. If I find it I will send it to you.Well to be fair I could Google it if you told me what he actually said in this quote?
Otherwise what am I searching for ''Solskjaer say's he's not a tactical coach''?
That is when he came to United. The players at Aberdeen says the same thing. Yes it is not fair to judge Ole and SAF. The bar is too high. This is why I feel he is on a losing wicket. Any player who played for SAF at United is going to be compared to SAF. It is much better to get a manager who has not played at United who can bring his own to United and put the memory of SAF out win the current team and stop the comparison.The situation is really different, SAF was not only respected and feared but also admired. Players knew they were working with the best.
I remember one interview from Chicharito were he said just being in the locker room with Sir Alex made him feel like he was one of the great players in the world. Meaning that they were proud to be managed by him.
I don't think there's a coach that can make the same effect today bar maybe Pep.
To judge Ole according to that bar is unfair since there is no way he can reach that level.
Regarding Ole I think players respect him and like him but I dont think they admire him. Many players surely feel they have achieved more than Ole himself in their career as a player and certainly as a manager he has nothing to show for. Im not saying they don't like him or don't like being manage by him but I don't think they hold him to any particular special standard. He's just another manager.
So that was the only time Ronaldo tried to dribble past 4 players?Against Benfica in the CL.
Cheers mate I appreciate that, though it may be a bit of a Caf myth. A quote is taken out of context and/or misinterpreted then people start discussing it as fact. Happens all the time on here.I tried to look for it but couldn't find it, sorry mate can't help you with this one. I remember it being discussed here for a long time, but I can't exactly remember the thread name. If I find it I will send it to you.
For us to truly have a world class defence, we need not only the players, but the coaching. Of course Varane or another top CB would improve us, but would make us the best defence in the PL? There are other factors involved.It worked at Liverpool. VVD instantly improved them and I’d say that was alongside centre backs not as good as Harry Maguire. It seems a bizarre thing to suggest that a world class player, in any position, won’t improve us.
I dont care if they played under SAF or not, I care about them being top managers. I don't think they being players to SAF and assuming they got abilities from it would be like buying a player that trained with Messi and expect him to have adquieres some of his skills.That is when he came to United. The players at Aberdeen says the same thing. Yes it is not fair to judge Ole and SAF. The bar is too high. This is why I feel he is on a losing wicket. Any player who played for SAF at United is going to be compared to SAF. It is much better to get a manager who has not played at United who can bring his own to United and put the memory of SAF out win the current team and stop the comparison.
Haha..I guess.So you're saying we need to get a South American, African or perhaps a Portuguese coach who understands Spanish and Italian football?
And/or an Italian coach who's good at puzzles?
Yeah, definitely - we could keep them around without having them in such important roles which is probably fair on neither them or us. There’s some top, top coaches available at the moment too - the likes of Sarri, Conte, Howe - they’d all likely prefer a top job somewhere but may prioritise the opportunity to be connected with Man Utd over that.Obviously, the focus is on the manager (rightly so), but these two have been first-team coaches for over 3 years now (and been around the club longer), and If you dip into the various performance threads on this site, many people (myself included) are basically complaining about the same things now that we were 3/4 years ago. While each manager has had his own style of play, the complaints about our inability to break down a deep-lying/organized defence are the same.
Our slow side-to-side passing, lack of penetration, and lack of imagination have been a constant for years. And while managers have come and gone, these two have remained. But why?
There’s a sense of inertia when it comes to these two. They’re here, but I’m not sure why.
Would you like to see us upgrade on them?
