If Carrick has any ambitions to manage, surely he needs to go elsewhere to ply his trade elsewhere at some point. McKenna can be one of many coaches if necessary but the new man should be able to bring his backroom staff with him.
Carrick's First Team
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Not as if he has much choice.
I don’t recall them all being his fault so not quite the same. That being said, I’m just pointing out Alisson ain’t as good as you’re making out.
I don't think we can get much more aggressive than a 4-2-4.
He's a very good goalkeeper, shit happens sometimes you have bad games, generally speaking they defend well and he compliments that by being commanding, quick off his line and an 11th man off the ball allowing the team to sit higher.
I use him as an example mainly because you saw the difference a goalkeeper makes in the United-Liverpool game. Ronaldo & Fernandes both through on goal & Allison throws them off by getting at them immediately. Liverpool go through on goal and Dave falls backwards making himself tiny.
During the Liverpool game I saw De Gea being bombarded and making save after save to keep the score down. I think Alisson looks a considerably worse keeper if he plays behind defenders who actually tackle each other more than the opposition.
"Save after save"? They had 8 shots on target and scored 5 goals for goodness sake.
I recall the saves being made to be top class. My memory could be clouded by trying to forget as much about that match as possible. I know for a fact De Gea wasn’t the problem that day and that no keeper was rescuing the shit show in front of him.
"The problem", no, the defending was horrendous. But he was dreadful on goals 3, 4 & 5. And in the 4 games since then he's been at fault for both Atalanta goals, City's second and definitely two, arguable three, at Watford too.
So yes, the goalkeeper is a massive, massive problem.
That's pretty much what I said regarding McKenna, no?
Well yeah, if Carrick wants to manage then, you're right, he's going to have to go and manage somewhere.
I sorry, but that’s nonsense.
Watch them, it's not nonsense at all.
I’ve seen them. You’re going to ridiculous lengths to blame him for those goals. He’s slow off his line, we know that. That doesn’t make it his fault when defenders don’t pick up players, or stand gormlessly in the middle of the box with their hand in the air trying to play offside. Blaming him for the second against Watford when Sancho couldn’t be arsed tackling, Shaw reacts like a snail to close the cross down and Maguire does his usual job of marking space in the middle is incredible bias. Your opinion can’t be taken seriously.
Agreeing that McKenna can stay but my preference would be a clear out.
I don't know about Carrick, but it's reported that Kieran McKenna isn't well liked by the players - so why is he still here?
Why not gut the coaching system that clearly isn't working and put an old hand like Phelan in charge for the forseeable?
Why not gut the coaching system that clearly isn't working and put an old hand like Phelan in charge for the forseeable?
Do you not understand the difference between "at fault for" and "blaming him"? There are many factors and players that are at fault for goals we concede. All of the points you have made are absolutely fair, but are you saying that because Sancho bottled a tackle it's ok for DDG to be terribly positioned and allow a shot across him and in? Because AWB does a ridiculous header for the first goal & then Matic doesn't bother defending, we can't look at DDG not coming and dealing with the cross and then not stopping the shot that's straight at him? What's the excuse for the third goal that literally goes through him?
Because Phelan's a glorified cheerleader. He'd probably be the worst one of the 3 to be left in charge.
A true, compact 4-2-4 would be quite aggressive. Problem is, so far United usually played kind of a 4-2 lost in acres of space-4.
The way United played it most often was absolutely not cohesive and therefore quite open, getting that cohesion should be the main issue.
Also it means that quite often the 4 attackers are left on their own to work some magic. They still created a lot of chances, but they lacked support to be able to recycling possession or regain possession quickly when lost.
That does not seem to be very aggressive to me.
I disagree that his positioning was a problem on the second goal. I can’t remember how much chance he had at coming for the cross. If you said partially at fault then I’d have less issue with what you’re saying. He could’ve done better with the third goal and I never said otherwise. On that though I could just say that Martial was at fault for giving the ball away. You can lay fault at any player for any goal.
You certainly can. I was a goalkeeper at a reasonable standard so just look at that position more than most others and I just think it's increasingly clear we won't get back to competing at the top end with him in goal. There are too many coincidences adding up for him not to be a problem frankly.
We've had the same issues with crosses into the box and cut backs across several managers and countless different defensive variations, we've seen defenders go away and excel with their national teams in front of different types of goalkeepers, we see the defenders calling DDG to step forward and help them out on the ball every single game, we've seen defensive performances improve immeasurably when we have used different goalkeepers over the last 5/6 years, Spain moved on from DDG because he hinders their style of football so much that they play an inferior (on paper) goalkeeper to better fit their defenders (which is what we should be doing), there are more.
He's a great shot-stopper, but you just need a lot more from a goalkeeper at the top level and he causes us too many problems given our defenders are screaming out for a dominant goalkeeper.
I've just rewatched goals 3, 4 and 5 against Liverpool. And I don't see how he is even remotely culpable for any of those goals.
To argue he should move out to cut out the pass on the third goal doesn't make any sense, because if he tried doing that he'd basically leave Salah with an empty net, and also I don't see how he'd make it in time.
Goals 4 and 5, both hard shots from close range. It'd been amazing if he saved either of those.
Don't really see how he was at fault for any of Watford's goals either, except maybe a little bit the third one. But it was hard to see from the main angle. Will need a closer look. King's was basically a tap-in from close range in a crowded box. Sarr's was way too close, hard and well-placed to stop. The fourth one didn't look very catchable to me either - hard and well-placed.
Yeah well with these players you could probably play any formation you want.
Everything points towards Ole having delegated much of the training sessions to Carrick and McKenna and to him implementing a consensus based leadership style where I assume most decisions have been discussed with his team prior to being executed. Hence, I would be shocked in anything at all is different with Carrick at the helm, other than the players perhaps being even less encouraged.
Okay. So you are way better qualified to assess this than other posters in general (certainly than me), acknowledged and good to know. And I think the points you make about his systemic impact are reasonable however one evaluates his performance on those Liverpool and Watford goals. To be sure, he comes at a cost.
The same weak willed players are basically sitting there waiting to see what’s in it for them ready to throw any manager under the bus once it gathers a bit of momentum. They stopped playing for Ole a few weeks ago. I really dislike most of our post Fergie players.
You may be right on what we need moving forward. All I know is that Henderson isn’t the answer so we’ll need another keeper. All that said, I would place zero stock on how our defenders do at international level. International football is a farce bar one or two games a year.
Yeah this is exactly what I worry about
Carrick just had his first pre match presser.
We have another nutter. 3-1-3-3, we're doomed.
I mean... the coaches haven't changed? Ole was the manager who chose McKenna, Phelan and Carrick to run a lot of the football side of things and provide their advice which he valued. Ole is gone but the same coaches are there, doing the same things in training, making the same decisions regarding the team. Expecting anything different when just Ole left makes no sense considering the way he was as a manager. We need an actual manager who knows how to coach the side and bring in his own coaching staff. Nothing is changing until then.
You won't like any player in the history of the game because it has happened with every single one since the game became professional. Look at people like Roy Keane once he was out of the United circle.
Carrick and McKenna were the coaches under Ole. So I’d find it a bit strange if the team setup/formation/personnel is massively different than what we have seen the last few months.
If Carrick makes big changes then I’d ask why he didn’t speak up sooner.
It’s all hearsay of course because none of us know what happens on the training pitch. But the “lack of tactics” criticism is very much on these two and not just Ole.
If Carrick makes big changes then I’d ask why he didn’t speak up sooner.
It’s all hearsay of course because none of us know what happens on the training pitch. But the “lack of tactics” criticism is very much on these two and not just Ole.
Why does Henderson 'deserve' game time? It was De Gea not saving pens before but what's the new excuse?
I hope Henderson is sold, so we can stop with this deserve to play FC nonsense.
It looks like a diamond to me, and it would be better than a 4-2-4.
If he starts McFred this place will meltdown. Not going to lie, I'll be the face of that meltdown...
It's weird right ?
Because he isn't serving up the same horror show he has last couple of years he is now considered to be in a fine form.
Let me just say that a defence that has conceded as many goals as Norwich in the league, well the keeper is also a part of that problem.
I understand with game tomorrow we couldn't sack all coaches yesterday due to preperation for game but I expect no change at all to way we play. Same people with same mentality. The same people who set training sessions up and prepare the players and it has failed.
We will have same set piece set up so I expect us to leak goals from set pieces in next few games. So dont expect anything different tomorrow night or the Chelsea and Arsenal game if Carrick and Co are still. He mentioned something about working with ole and shared the same opinions so were doomed until we get new manager in.
We will have same set piece set up so I expect us to leak goals from set pieces in next few games. So dont expect anything different tomorrow night or the Chelsea and Arsenal game if Carrick and Co are still. He mentioned something about working with ole and shared the same opinions so were doomed until we get new manager in.
Absolutely. He's always been totally overwhlemed by OT. He's still living a dream. I want him out.
Carrick needs to make a statement of intent, we are not even half-way through the season yet. Get rid of all that tosh around him, and manage those players. And if he is unable to do that, he needs to admit that to the owners, now.
Because inbetween some smart saves De Gea is chucking goals in on a pretty consistent basis.
It's why I'm slightly positive. Carrick doesn't need to make huge changes to get a different performance. Just play Henderson, Beek and Sancho. That alone would give us a boost.