Cavani gets 3 match ban from FA for his social media post

[city-puma]

Possibly they were also anticipating political pressure as you say but the fight against racism shouldn’t be about that anyway (I know you’re not saying it is of course...). What’s wrong with them taking a more considered view and having the courage of their convictions? Because they’re also spineless...with a hard on for United...terrible combo as it turns out!

Exactly.
In fact, they can not have spine. They have to side with what has the least damage.
This is the era English language has to be carefully used. In IT industry, people have to react fast to replace the terminologies, such as master-slave model/pattern, blacklist, and so on.
The unfortunate part is FA is trying to influence the other language and culture. If the other cultures have not aligned onto the same page, its action is apparently regarded as a blatant, unacceptable interference and threats to them. Cultural war is probably a better way to see all of this.

 

[The Firestarter]

Fecking hell.

Anyone still doubting that PC can indeed go mad ?

 

[DoomSlayer]

Anyone still doubting that PC can indeed go mad ?

Yeah, most of the General forum regular posters indeed feel that way.

 

[Icemav]

Saying that a Belgian knows nothing of King Leopold and that period of time in the DRC is like claiming an Englishman has never heard of Adolf Hitler. Belgium is a small, very well educated country and you’re talking cobblers.

It happens to be true. They knew of Leopold obviously but had no idea of the cruelty and exploitation he administered. In the same way many Brits don't know about the concentration camps and scorched earth policies targetting civilains during the Boer war.

 

[Doracle]

Well apparently being in your early thirties and from the UK, and not knowing doing the Nazi salute is offensive because 'you don't know who Adolf Hitler is' is more reasonable than being from another country, and using a word in your own language that has no translation in to English but looks like another word that is potentially offensive.

That said, the FA board members probably had friends or family members in the aristocracy who supported the Nazis.

The panel in that case decided that (hard though it is to believe), the evidence was that he was signalling a waiter and was not making a Nazi salute at all. Once they’d made that finding, then the fact that the photo looked like a Nazi salute and would be offensive to people who thought that he was doing so becomes irrelevant. As signalling a waiter is not offensive, the Panel correctly concluded he was not guilty of an offence.

That’s precisely what should have happened here. Once it became clear that Cavani was referring to a friend by his childhood nickname, and that it was perfectly normal and acceptable conduct in his own language to do so, he wasn’t guilty of any offence.

In my view, the test should be whether a reasonable person in possession of all the facts would consider the action/language offensive. Instead, the test applied in Cavani’s case appears to be whether someone English, not in possession of the full facts and misconstruing it, could be offended - that seems neither fair nor reasonable to me - and a dangerous test to apply.

 

[tenpoless]

Fecking hell.

What's Tim Cahill doing in that photo?

 

[pablo__p]

Sorry, a lot of people just cannot get their head around the idea that words and expressions from other languages aren’t exactly the same as they are in English. It’s a mind blowing concept for them and I’m not sure that they’re ready for it. In the UK we do our best to never mention someone’s skin colour when referring to them. It’s ok to sing a song about your favourite brown-eyed girl, but try singing about your brown skinned girl and it’s off to the re-education camp for you.

Strangely, English also does’t have any direct way of referring to a friend of the opposite sex without accidentally and awkwardly suggesting you are in a relationship with them.

This plays a huge part in this "problem".

Over the last few years I had a chance to meet about 10 Brits and Americans that started to learn a language for the first time in their 30s.

Pretty much all of them shared with me that the concept bolded above indeed had blown their minds ever since they realized how completely unaware/naive they had been previously.

 

[HarryRedCrumbs]

It happens to be true. They knew of Leopold obviously but had no idea of the cruelty and exploitation he administered. In the same way many Brits don't know about the concentration camps and scorched earth policies targetting civilains during the Boer war.

Again, cobblers. To simply speculate that “many” Britons aren’t aware that we raped and pillaged our way around the world isn’t good enough. The Brits are a nasty bunch of cut throats and most people know this We were just trying to keep up with the French, Spanish, German, Portuguese, Russians and Americans. Not to mention the Japs and the Chinese.

My perpective from my background is one of general ignorance, otherwise known as white privelege.

If you’re personally suffering so much from white privilege, obviously not a fan of the Brits, and clearly ignorant on most of the facts (such as Cavani’s nationality, and how to speak Spanish) why are you so hell bent on supporting such a white organisation as the FA?

 

[OldTrevil]

Already comprehended sweetheart.
Bit precious aren't we?

You clearly didn't and hence your multiple failed attempts to insult, what a pest. Onto my ignore list you cnut

 

[RossoRotRojoRouge]

This plays a huge part in this "problem".

Over the last few years I had a chance to meet about 10 Brits and Americans that started to learn a language for the first time in their 30s.

Pretty much all of them shared with me that the concept bolded above indeed had blown their minds ever since they realized how completely unaware/naive they had been previously.

I agree.
I sincerely don’t mean to put monolinguals down but I’m wondering how many of those in the Cavani case who are defending the FA’s stance and/or the MBA students’ complaint in the case of USC in the USA (linked earlier in the thread) are proficient in any language other than English. In the case of the FA board one would hope so given the international branding of such a successful UK export. Any bilingual or linguistics expert would have told them that due to the difficulties of translation, they’d be entering a minefield, virtually impossible to police, leaving themselves open to controversy and ridicule.

Moreover, have they considered, for example, that there are English words they might use in other countries which could sound ‘offensive’ to those not proficient in English? And are such countries going to be so stupid as to try to ban such words in exchanges between English native speakers?

 

[big rons sovereign]

You clearly didn't and hence your multiple failed attempts to insult, what a pest. Onto my ignore list you cnut

Interesting. Makes baseless claims of attempted insults, then calls me a cnut!
By rights I should report the big crybaby, but instead I'll be a man and laugh at him

Mental.

 

[mazhar13]

Moreover, have they considered, for example, that there are English words they might use in other countries which could sound ‘offensive’ to those not proficient in English? And are such countries going to be so stupid as to try to ban such words in exchanges between English native speakers?

Case in point: the Dutch and the word "cancer"

 

[kouroux]

The panel in that case decided that (hard though it is to believe), the evidence was that he was signalling a waiter and was not making a Nazi salute at all. Once they’d made that finding, then the fact that the photo looked like a Nazi salute and would be offensive to people who thought that he was doing so becomes irrelevant. As signalling a waiter is not offensive, the Panel correctly concluded he was not guilty of an offence.

That’s precisely what should have happened here. Once it became clear that Cavani was referring to a friend by his childhood nickname, and that it was perfectly normal and acceptable conduct in his own language to do so, he wasn’t guilty of any offence.

In my view, the test should be whether a reasonable person in possession of all the facts would consider the action/language offensive. Instead, the test applied in Cavani’s case appears to be whether someone English, not in possession of the full facts and misconstruing it, could be offended - that seems neither fair nor reasonable to me - and a dangerous test to apply.

One of the best posts in this thread. Just common sense well explained

 

[Godfather]

Thank God we have him back now

 

[James35]

Looking forward to seeing him again (hopefully straight in v Burnley) with Bruno and Pogba behind him I feel he will get more chances than he has done so far in games this season.
He will be crucial v Liverpools makeshift defence and for me such an important player if we really want to get a result at Anfield and challenge for a title. Pray he stays fit as Martial and Greenwood are off form and Rashford still very much hit and miss.

 

[Icemav]

Again, cobblers. To simply speculate that “many” Britons aren’t aware that we raped and pillaged our way around the world isn’t good enough. The Brits are a nasty bunch of cut throats and most people know this We were just trying to keep up with the French, Spanish, German, Portuguese, Russians and Americans. Not to mention the Japs and the Chinese.



If you’re personally suffering so much from white privilege, obviously not a fan of the Brits, and clearly ignorant on most of the facts (such as Cavani’s nationality, and how to speak Spanish) why are you so hell bent on supporting such a white organisation as the FA?

You seem desperate to interject. I am specifically referring to a particular part of British history in South Africa and how some parts of our history are not broadly known in the UK. If you think this is bullshit and most Brits know about it then fine but you are clearly on the wind up now. And if you think I am bizaarely lying about what my Belgian friends told me (or they were lying) then thats up to you too I suppose. Anyway this has devolved into something weird. Stir the pot with someone else.

 

[HarryRedCrumbs]

You seem desperate to interject. I am specifically referring to a particular part of British history in South Africa and how some parts of our history are not broadly known in the UK. If you think this is bullshit and most Brits know about it then fine but you are clearly on the wind up now. And if you think I am bizaarely lying about what my Belgian friends told me (or they were lying) then thats up to you too I suppose. Anyway this has devolved into something weird. Stir the pot with someone else.

Icemav, you replied to my post, stirring my pot. Remember?

1984? Following the trend? Shitting themselves?

You and others in society who are outraged and offended by this will have to learn to live with it and watch it evolve.

I engaged with you not only because you seemed to be implying that I was against tackling racism, but mainly because I feel very strongly about the way Cavani has been treated. He's a guest in our country and a player at our club, and after only being here a couple of months, for simply replying to a friends message, he gets hauled up in front of the FA and publicly done for aggravated racism. The effects of which don't just affect him, they effect his family as well, and his reputation.

I completely agree with you that this is weird.

Don't reply to my posts chatting hoof if you don't want me replying to yours.

 

[Icemav]

Icemav, you replied to my post, stirring my pot. Remember?




I engaged with you not only because you seemed to be implying that I was against tackling racism, but mainly because I feel very strongly about the way Cavani has been treated. He's a guest in our country and a player at our club, and after only being here a couple of months, for simply replying to a friends message, he gets hauled up in front of the FA and publicly done for aggravated racism. The effects of which don't just affect him, they effect his family as well, and his reputation.

I completely agree with you that this is weird.

Don't reply to my posts chatting hoof if you don't want me replying to yours.

Fair enough. I disagreed with your hyperbole (again there is a bit here imo "aggravated racism") and pardon for any implication that you are arent against racism, and you are now taking the piss a bit and posting that I am lying which is not really going to lead anywhere. You feel strongly he has been mistreated. I don't disagree that he hasn't been. Others have argued quite well that he has recieved the wrong sanction if there is to be one. On the topic of what equates to tackling racism in society, this is very complex. I just read that only recently J Lo had to change the name of her song "tu negrita del bronx" to "lonely" as she got an ton of criticism, ranging from activist academics saying she was further embedding cultural behaviours stemming from colonial slave trade history in S.America that created paternalistic infantalizing language towards black people which despite being used affectionately in the present day is really a societal shield to avoid acknowledging the past and also deal with the huge social inequalities that exist presently (I am paraphrasing), to those claiming she was trying to profit from blackness with cool language which she had no right to do due to the color of her skin. Thats quite a range of positions, and also coming from an American point of view, though I am assuming as I don't know the background of all the people whose comments I read. Are these opinions wrong? Well it caused a backlash and she had to change her lyrics. I really dont know the answer. But from all that has been said here I have to agree that the FA have not handled this as well as they could have considering it was 2 Uruguayans messaging each other using friendly language commonly spoken that has no overt racial meaning in Uruguay.

 

[Jippy]

Again, cobblers. To simply speculate that “many” Britons aren’t aware that we raped and pillaged our way around the world isn’t good enough. The Brits are a nasty bunch of cut throats and most people know this We were just trying to keep up with the French, Spanish, German, Portuguese, Russians and Americans. Not to mention the Japs and the Chinese.



If you’re personally suffering so much from white privilege, obviously not a fan of the Brits, and clearly ignorant on most of the facts (such as Cavani’s nationality, and how to speak Spanish) why are you so hell bent on supporting such a white organisation as the FA?

Please avoid using the term 'Japs' for the Japanese as it is widely considered offensive.