Cavani gets 3 match ban from FA for his social media post
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
I guess the crux is down to what he says. Saying "black" is not racist if it's used in context (to me anyway). E.g. "can you describe the man" - "yes, he was black, 5ft 10, normal build" ,etc.
But calling someone black frivolously even as endearment shows you're segregating between colours unnecessarily which I agree is not correct. What was Cavani's post, I think it was something like "thank you, my black friend"? Or translated as similar? If Bruno said that to Rashford in the English translation, even as endearment, it's not really on. I would take this as a universal step in the right direction, not just regional.
They'll claim the use of a word which refers to colour, ethnic origin is the part which is improper and potentially brings the game into disrepute, I'd say.
It doesn't necessarily have to be insulting. Mendy didn't feel insulted by Bernardo Silva by all accounts.
Maybe Utd should charge them with this.
Unless the rules he's required to abide by don't extend to that Spanish section, it's irrelevant. Plus it's naive for anyone posting anywhere online to assume that the audience of their post is limited in that way. Especially if they're a high profile celebrity.
The bottom line is that if you use a term that makes reference to someone's skin colour (in any language) on social media then you're on dangerous ground with the FA. If that wasn't made clear to the players before then it should be now.
Agreed. It seems that because social media has taken over most of people's lives, there's this overall sense of dislike when the platforms are considered to have standards for what you can and can't say. But it doesn't change the fact it's a public platform, which as you've rightly analogised, is like any agreed upon discourse you'd see in the public realm (your restaurant example). The fact it isn't physical shouldn't matter; in fact it should probably be a bigger reason to think through what you're saying as it can be recorded and highlighted at the drop of a hat.
The only way this rumbles on past the 4th of Jan is if we appeal. If we accept the charge on or before the 4th then the 3 match ban starts straight away.
We should just accept the ban with minimal fuss. Yes, he didn't mean any offence by it, but the word itself does have negative connotations. Look at the recent Istanbul-PSG situation, where it came up in a similar context, and the Bernardo incident last year shows that isn't a defence. Accept he made a mistake and move on.
Depending on the date of the hearing we might actually get off lucky and he misses a cup game or two as part of the ban rather than three important league games.
Depending on the date of the hearing we might actually get off lucky and he misses a cup game or two as part of the ban rather than three important league games.
May as well just accept it. Those jobsworths at the FA aren't going to reverse their decision in the current climate.
Its a joke that this took three whole weeks to carry out rather than the one week it could have easily been done in.
Plus how far is this going to reach now beyond on-field stuff? Didn’t even say it during a game. Shall we ban Grealish for 3 games for endangering lives with reckless/careless driving? That’s a more severe crime than saying a variation of the n-word on social media.
Plus how far is this going to reach now beyond on-field stuff? Didn’t even say it during a game. Shall we ban Grealish for 3 games for endangering lives with reckless/careless driving? That’s a more severe crime than saying a variation of the n-word on social media.
That’s a police matter and he’s been charged the maximum they could given the charge. Clearly the FA aren’t going to charge him further even though it would appear that he “brought the game into disrepute” by acting such.
Maybe drink and substance abuse should come under their code of conduct
The FA are racist?
How can anyone accuse the FA of being racist on this issue?
The FA have been daft yes, but considering how a lot of people throw the word 'racist' around like it is nothing, I guess they are just fitting in.
So not out of touch then.
You can't punish drink drivers enough as far as I'm concerned so I'd be all for it.
The man will be punished for something he didn't do, something that only people not fluent in his language think he might have done. Stuff's just sad... if he'd actually been racist I'd be in favor of releasing him from his contract (I imagine player contracts have these types of clauses), but this was nothing. Yet people think he should be punished because "we can leave no margin" or something. That's authoritarianism.
I keep thinking of an english speaker coming to Brazil and needing to refer to a black person in any form, and using the wrong word because our "correct" word to use is exactly the translation of the offensive one in english. If in any way this were near me I'd explain to anyone upset that it's an honest mistake, that in english they have it the other way around, that no ill was intended. But apparently such tolerance is unmerited these days, we need to be intolerant towards those that slip up in any way because of language and cultural differences. That's how we'll find justice somehow.
Plenty of actually reasons to be embarrassed to be English. Don't get bogged down in the trivial stuff.
I would believe the FA's legal team over a random on Redcafe. But that's just me.
Fair enough but from what I gather the charge against him is misconduct and not racism which to me doesn't make a lot of sense. Surely it should be racist innuendos or nothing? Calling someone out on social media could be misconduct but in this case it couldn't be further than the truth.
You sound like Ash Sarkar
It seems it's okay to say if you don't proof read you're an idiot (that is an issue for dyslexics) direct v indirect discrimination? both are unacceptable
I fear the FA are looking at populist agenda, and not taking other protected characteristics as seriously
Great, banned over the xmas period.
Lets hope martial finally gets his act together!
Lets hope martial finally gets his act together!
Not surprised to see the punishment this day and age, albeit it does seem harsh given the context. It is nothing like the Suarez incident which was clear aggravated racism. The FA rules breach referenced doesn't adequately cover this 'affectionate' or 'lacking cultural education' scenario in my opinion. I cannot imagine the club will appeal this as they will be aware of the potential cataclysmic backlash from the media if they do so. The media and opposition fans will be out for his blood now until the 3 match ban is served. The club may as well just get the ban over and done with ASAP.
What I'd like to know is, what are the FA and the PL going to do to educate people like Bernardo Silva and Edinson Cavani as to why their use of phrase is not acceptable in the UK in 2020? I think the FA are so antiquated (just look at their recent Chairman), they see their job is done by issuing a 3 match ban and then hope the problem is solved or goes away. I don't think so and much more needs to be done to educate these players who have no intent to offend but do so in innocence.
What I'd like to know is, what are the FA and the PL going to do to educate people like Bernardo Silva and Edinson Cavani as to why their use of phrase is not acceptable in the UK in 2020? I think the FA are so antiquated (just look at their recent Chairman), they see their job is done by issuing a 3 match ban and then hope the problem is solved or goes away. I don't think so and much more needs to be done to educate these players who have no intent to offend but do so in innocence.
Sadly it's easier to accuse someone of racism and besmirch their character than to study the nuances of Latin American Spanish.
Anyone who is Latin American or who has lived Latin America will understand exactly what Cavani was saying here. It was clearly not racist.
The FA should be apologizing to Edinson but instead it is the other way round. It is embarrassing.
I've been scanning a few Spanish speaking responses to this and they are claiming it is absurd, ridiculous, etc.
Anyone who is Latin American or who has lived Latin America will understand exactly what Cavani was saying here. It was clearly not racist.
The FA should be apologizing to Edinson but instead it is the other way round. It is embarrassing.
I've been scanning a few Spanish speaking responses to this and they are claiming it is absurd, ridiculous, etc.
No idea who that is tbh...You sound like Ash Sarkar
But anyone with open eyes should be embarrassed that the government has been dishing out billions of our taxes to it's mates all year.
Embarrassed fecking Unicef are now feeding starving kids in the UK
I don't have any political leanings, they're all cnuts. But left and right in England should be embarrassed
He's not been charged with racism....
I don't think gate-keeping someone's right to speak their own language is trivial buddy.
It's the kind of shit that do-good morons think is progressive, while ignoring the sweet irony of it all.
Would you look at the situation differently if the friend he's referring to wasn't black?
With all due respect I find this stance a little strange.
Let me preface my response by saying that of course words can have a change in meaning over the years and it's right that when folk move to a country they should take note of any sensitivity that certain words may have there.
However I don't think it's about nations being stuck in the past.
If I may explain. My origins are not English although I've spent most of my life in England. In my country we use words that are associated with colour that are actually praiseworthy in their meaning. Including the words meaning black. It can be used to signify beauty.
Without going into an essay it's simply a case of the past not making the word black negative. The argument in the "west" is often that over the years black has been used as a negative thing. So the good guys wear white and the bad guys black, black = evil and white = good type of thing.
We simply don't have that type of historical portrayal.
Using the word black in my country of origin simply isn't negative. The concept of a "black beauty" is the equivalent of say nubian queen
Exactly!
Apologies, I see that he has been charged with using a Spanish phrase that is 'offensive in some contexts'.
That is even more ridiculous.
The only context that matters here is the one that Cavani used it in.
Do you think Cavani was using "black" as something other than to acknowledge the color of the skin of the guy to whom he was responding? It has nothing to do with meaning behind the color. It's not about black = good/bad/night/deep/beautiful/whatever. It's about skin color. Society is trying to move on from color being the first and biggest marker of someone's identity. When you are addressing a stranger with their skin color as the leading property, that's offensive in my book.
And I know there are circumstances when that is not only ok but encouraged. But the exchange Cavani had with a fan on Instagram does not fall under those circumstances.
Yeah here we are talking about a colloquialism, you can't and shouldn't translate it literally into a foreign language, you need to put it into context if you want to judge it and claim that it put the game in disrepute. It's bit like a french calling someone "ma couille", a french will understand, the rest of the world will look at a dictionary and be potentially upset.
Which is a problem because it's a two layered thing, the first part that you mentioned is supposed to be the aggravated part, in theory there need to be a misconduct in the first place otherwise nothing has been aggravated.
We've said it 100 times in this and the other thread though. The guy Cavani was replying to is not black. Guys in Uruguay and Argentina use the words 'negro' and 'negrito' as a sort of 'bro' or 'dude', 'my dude', 'mate'. Sometimes white to black, black to black, but most often (because of their population make up) white to white. It isn't even a reference to skin color.
I promise you the first time I heard it I was confused as hell (I'm brazilian, my dad is argentine). We were visiting family friends in Argentina, and my dad's friend called his sons 'negro'. All white. I didn't properly make sense to me, but you see that and you come to understand that yeah, they speak like that there.
Appeal so at least we can get a delay on the ban
I'm a newbie so have limited posts so may not be able to reply to you a lot.
I get what you are saying but my point is that not all societies are trying to get away from similar pasts (I think you've highlighted my point by saying this)
Even the Suarez case highlighted that certain words have a good meaning but it's about context.
As I understand stand it in this case the word used is the equivalent to say sweetheart.
I appreciate that certain words shouldn't be used in certain places around the world. Think it was Arsenal who had to remove their sponsors name from their shirts in europe as the word meant a swear word. However they were free to use that sponsor in the Prem.
Similarly in some countries, Turkey for example, the word kala/kara (meaning black) was and is used to signify brave and heroic.
Well he doesn't say "thank you my white friend" in that scenario, I assume?
Ah fair enough, I didnt know the context of the quote but was just trying to understand where it would stem from.
Jesus if the guy isn't even black I don't get the controversy as much
This. Simple as. The world needs to grow up a bit, sad that this has been driven out of context and he's been charged because of it.