Champions League Final 2019 | Spurs v Liverpool (1st June)

[jackwanson]

This isn't really based on the evidence we have available though, is it? Liverpool must have been devastated to lose the CL final last season, especially in the manner that they did with Karius almost wholly at fault, and how did they respond...by recording their highest ever points tally in the league and getting to the final yet again. This is a strong Liverpool side, both technically and mentally. I also don't see a mass exodus if they fail to win, in fact I don't see why it would have much bearing on their outgoings. If anything, you could argue them winning it might make a few more amenable to leaving as they may feel they've won the top prize with Liverpool and want to try their luck elsewhere.

If you were a player wanting to sign for a football club right now, and you looked at clubs that you think are set up to challenge for the foreseeable future, Liverpool would have to be near the front of the list for many. That will be the case win or lose against Spurs on Saturday.

Nah. I'll disagree with you there. Liverpool is DONE if they lose this Champions League Final. Momentum is everything. Last year they weren't affected because that CL run CREATED the momentum curve. They never had to 'come back' since there was no momentum curve to BEGIN WITH. Hence, that's why they weren't let down at all. 2018 CL created the curve, it grew rapidly into 2018-2019 season in the PL and CL. Losing the PL didn't really stop the curve or growth, it just flatline. Reason being they still got one more massive trophy that could launch it into further heights. Win the CL and the curve launches into unseen heights. LOSE and they fall into obscurity. I'll give a great example of momentum curve.

Spain 2008 was at the very peak of their momentum curve. If they had lost EURO 08, the momentum curve would have faltered and they would never have won 10 World Cup or 12 Euro. Never. The ONLY reason they won 10 and 12 was due to the curve rapid growth they experienced after winning 08. Look at Brazil 2014. They lost their curve after losing to Germany and failed in 18. Had they beaten Germany in 14, the curve would have improved their entire squad as a team and individuals and they would have most likely won the World Cup in Russia.


Liverpool will either win the CL and go on a run we have never seen before(MULTIPLE PL'S and CL'S) or they would falter and be fighting for the league cup(and pretending that the league cup is actually a trophy). That being said, Liverpool will win 2-1 or 3-1.

 

[simonhch]

Nah. I'll disagree with you there. Liverpool is DONE if they lose this Champions League Final. Momentum is everything. Last year they weren't affected because that CL run CREATED the momentum curve. They never had to 'come back' since there was no momentum curve to BEGIN WITH. Hence, that's why they weren't let down at all. 2018 CL created the curve, it grew rapidly into 2018-2019 season in the PL and CL. Losing the PL didn't really stop the curve or growth, it just flatline. Reason being they still got one more massive trophy that could launch it into further heights. Win the CL and the curve launches into unseen heights. LOSE and they fall into obscurity. I'll give a great example of momentum curve.

Spain 2008 was at the very peak of their momentum curve. If they had lost EURO 08, the momentum curve would have faltered and they would never have won 10 World Cup or 12 Euro. Never. The ONLY reason they won 10 and 12 was due to the curve rapid growth they experienced after winning 08. Look at Brazil 2014. They lost their curve after losing to Germany and failed in 18. Had they beaten Germany in 14, the curve would have improved their entire squad as a team and individuals and they would have most likely won the World Cup in Russia.


Liverpool will either win the CL and go on a run we have never seen before(MULTIPLE PL'S and CL'S) or they would falter and be fighting for the league cup(and pretending that the league cup is actually a trophy). That being said, Liverpool will win 2-1 or 3-1.

Absurd post based wholly on a speculative hypothesis of what if scenarios. You have absolutely no idea how they will react to winning or losing the trophy; and using the example of a parallel universe where Spain lost Euro 2008 and then fell apart to make your point, just underlined the absurdity of it all.

 

[SteveJ]

Nostradamus was wrong! And I have a long list of speculations to prove it!

 

[jackwanson]

Absurd post based wholly on a speculative hypothesis of what if scenarios. You have absolutely no idea how they will react to winning or losing the trophy; and using the example of a parallel universe where Spain lost Euro 2008 and then fell apart to make your point, just underlined the absurdity of it all.

Well no. You just have to look at business society as a whole to understand momentum and what it can do for you. My friend is a top level associate at a prestigious law firm and he stated multiple times if he had lost this one particularly tough trail 2 years ago, he would have never recovered. That trail took everything out of him and to walk away with nothing? Would have broke him. I mean ya, I get it. The Muhammad Ali's come back and come back and come back. But I'm basing this on the assumption the Liverpool Squad isn't a squad of Ali's in terms of will power. Don't get me wrong, this is a tough squad full of heart but I really do think Salah, Henderson, VVD, and others would break if they lose the CL.

I think a better example will be the American Basketball League. NBA. Kobe Bryant was such a great player because he had what Americans call a 'momentum stopper shot'. If the other team goes on a run, he will hit a impossible shot to drain the momentum. I mean ya we don't know how the other team would have reacted in a parallel universe where Kobe had missed the shot. I get it. But common sense says the other team would have kept scoring and build momentum even more if Kobe had missed that shot.


I mean you can't really 'prove' anything right. You can't 'prove' Messi would do it on a rainy night in Stoke. You can't. But common sense states Messi would have killed Stoke and toyed with all the rainy night teams England had to offer. Same goes with momentum. I can't 'prove' Liverpool would fall apart if they lose another CL. But common sense says they would.

 

[Crustanoid]

All this talk about ‘if they lose they’ll crumble ‘. Look at the way they kept coming back in every game week in the league, their points total, their final position, and were only beaten by a financially doped oil club by one point.

They are massive favourites against Spurs.

This should be one of their easier challenges and it’s going to be a win by 2-3 - they’ll roll Spurs over early doors.

 

[royboy16]

I wonder will the fact the league has finished and liverpool are not playing week in week out disrupt their match rhythm for the final ?

 

[Ban]

I wonder will the fact the league has finished and liverpool are not playing week in week out disrupt their match rhythm for the final ?

And too much sun in Dubai.

 

[Ban]

All this talk about ‘if they lose they’ll crumble ‘. Look at the way they kept coming back in every game week in the league, their points total, their final position, and were only beaten by a financially doped oil club by one point.

They are massive favourites against Spurs.

This should be one of their easier challenges and it’s going to be a win by 2-3 - they’ll roll Spurs over early doors.

Spurs are really not that bad.

 

[Chillosophy]

COYS

 

[kouroux]

Well no. You just have to look at business society as a whole to understand momentum and what it can do for you. My friend is a top level associate at a prestigious law firm and he stated multiple times if he had lost this one particularly tough trail 2 years ago, he would have never recovered. That trail took everything out of him and to walk away with nothing? Would have broke him. I mean ya, I get it. The Muhammad Ali's come back and come back and come back. But I'm basing this on the assumption the Liverpool Squad isn't a squad of Ali's in terms of will power. Don't get me wrong, this is a tough squad full of heart but I really do think Salah, Henderson, VVD, and others would break if they lose the CL.

I think a better example will be the American Basketball League. NBA. Kobe Bryant was such a great player because he had what Americans call a 'momentum stopper shot'. If the other team goes on a run, he will hit a impossible shot to drain the momentum. I mean ya we don't know how the other team would have reacted in a parallel universe where Kobe had missed the shot. I get it. But common sense says the other team would have kept scoring and build momentum even more if Kobe had missed that shot.


I mean you can't really 'prove' anything right. You can't 'prove' Messi would do it on a rainy night in Stoke. You can't. But common sense states Messi would have killed Stoke and toyed with all the rainy night teams England had to offer. Same goes with momentum. I can't 'prove' Liverpool would fall apart if they lose another CL. But common sense says they would.

That's not common sense at all

 

[Schneckerl]

Same goes with momentum. I can't 'prove' Liverpool would fall apart if they lose another CL. But common sense says they would.

Sadly there is not much to suggest that this is common sense.

Valencia lost the CL final in '00 + '01. 01/02: Won their first league title in 30 years.
Bayern lost 2 CL finals in 3 years - 2012 in the most painful way - and went on to win the treble the following season.

 

[Topgun1]

Looking at previous games Liverpool seem to struggle a little bit with Kane. He also likes to go down for pens. Could be good for them if he's out.

 

[VorZakone]

When you think about it, there's been a Klopp-led side in 3 out of the last 7 CL finals. Including the EL, it's 4 finals in 7 seasons.

 

[RobinLFC]

Well no. You just have to look at business society as a whole to understand momentum and what it can do for you. My friend is a top level associate at a prestigious law firm and he stated multiple times if he had lost this one particularly tough trail 2 years ago, he would have never recovered. That trail took everything out of him and to walk away with nothing? Would have broke him. I mean ya, I get it. The Muhammad Ali's come back and come back and come back. But I'm basing this on the assumption the Liverpool Squad isn't a squad of Ali's in terms of will power. Don't get me wrong, this is a tough squad full of heart but I really do think Salah, Henderson, VVD, and others would break if they lose the CL.

I think a better example will be the American Basketball League. NBA. Kobe Bryant was such a great player because he had what Americans call a 'momentum stopper shot'. If the other team goes on a run, he will hit a impossible shot to drain the momentum. I mean ya we don't know how the other team would have reacted in a parallel universe where Kobe had missed the shot. I get it. But common sense says the other team would have kept scoring and build momentum even more if Kobe had missed that shot.


I mean you can't really 'prove' anything right. You can't 'prove' Messi would do it on a rainy night in Stoke. You can't. But common sense states Messi would have killed Stoke and toyed with all the rainy night teams England had to offer. Same goes with momentum. I can't 'prove' Liverpool would fall apart if they lose another CL. But common sense says they would.

What a pile of absolute shit and speculation based on nothing. "Common sense" ffs

The Kobe comparison, just wow.

 

[youmeletsfly]

When you think about it, there's been a Klopp-led side in 3 out of the last 7 CL finals.

When you think about it, no Klopp-led side got the trophy.

 

[FootballHQ]

All this talk about ‘if they lose they’ll crumble ‘. Look at the way they kept coming back in every game week in the league, their points total, their final position, and were only beaten by a financially doped oil club by one point.

They are massive favourites against Spurs.

This should be one of their easier challenges and it’s going to be a win by 2-3 - they’ll roll Spurs over early doors.

They barely beat them at Anfield in the middle of that epic run.

Unless Spurs totally freeze or Poch gets his starting 11/formation totally wrong this will be a tight game I reckon. One goal winning margin like both games this season if that.

 

[jackwanson]

What a pile of absolute shit and speculation based on nothing. "Common sense" ffs

The Kobe comparison, just wow.

Why are people denying the existence of momentum and how real it is? This is widespread knowledge in America. I know that don't mean anything since we are talking about European Football, but this is one thing the US Sports Media got right. Momentum is real and it changes the fortunes of teams.

Baseball Team Los Angeles Dodgers failed in back to back World Series(Their version of the CL Finals). I live in LA so I know this. This year, the entire franchise simply stopped trying to get better. The team is literally letting things slide as it is now. The word is the owners were expecting at least one championship and they could have build off that to create a dynasty. Instead getting crushed again last year demoralized the entire organization. The senior players are no longer as motivated and the owners are clearly investing a lot less.


I'm confused why people will argue against something that make sense. If Liverpool loses ANOTHER CL (back to back)their momentum is gone. You really think the mentality of the investors will be the same if Liverpool lose to Tottenham 4-1? Compare to say Liverpool SIX TIMES LAH CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE? If Liverpool loses to Tottenham, expect nothing to happen in the transfer market other than maybe selling. If Liverpool six times this? Expect Liverpool to strengthen their squad like crazy.


Here is another example to put this into perspective:
You are forced to run laps around a football field. Every time you complete a lap, you get 10,000 Pounds.

Scenario 1
Suddenly after your 4th lap, you no longer get 10,000 Pounds for running a lap. You get nothing.

Scenario 2
Suddenly after your 4th lap, you are now getting 1 MILLION POUNDS per lap.

Which scenario are you running harder in? Momentum is everything

 

[McGrathsipan]

Spurs are going to win.

 

[RobinLFC]

Why are people denying the existence of momentum and how real it is? This is widespread knowledge in America. I know that don't mean anything since we are talking about European Football, but this is one thing the US Sports Media got right. Momentum is real and it changes the fortunes of teams.

Baseball Team Los Angeles Dodgers failed in back to back World Series(Their version of the CL Finals). I live in LA so I know this. This year, the entire franchise simply stopped trying to get better. The team is literally letting things slide as it is now. The word is the owners were expecting at least one championship and they could have build off that to create a dynasty. Instead getting crushed again last year demoralized the entire organization. The senior players are no longer as motivated and the owners are clearly investing a lot less.


I'm confused why people will argue against something that make sense. If Liverpool loses ANOTHER CL (back to back)their momentum is gone. You really think the mentality of the investors will be the same if Liverpool lose to Tottenham 4-1? Compare to say Liverpool SIX TIMES LAH CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE? If Liverpool loses to Tottenham, expect nothing to happen in the transfer market other than maybe selling. If Liverpool six times this? Expect Liverpool to strengthen their squad like crazy.


Here is another example to put this into perspective:
You are forced to run laps around a football field. Every time you complete a lap, you get 10,000 Pounds.

Scenario 1
Suddenly after your 4th lap, you no longer get 10,000 Pounds for running a lap. You get nothing.

Scenario 2
Suddenly after your 4th lap, you are now getting 1 MILLION POUNDS per lap.

Which scenario are you running harder in? Momentum is everything

Momentum is a team that would be better off going to a Game 7 rather than getting rest after a sweep because they're doing well. It's literally impossible to keep momentum after a 6-week break from football, which renders your whole theory pointless.

 

[querpass]

Thr Dodgers are leading their division and are the best team in the NL after loosing two World Series in a row. You just delivered the perfect example against your theorie yourself.

 

[GlastonSpur]

... They are massive favourites against Spurs.

This should be one of their easier challenges ...

You make it sound as if they are playing against Huddersfield or Fulham.

But instead they're facing a team that has huge self-belief, have reached the final of the CL, have several top players and on their day can beat any team in the world. That includes Liverpool.

 

[royboy16]

Tempted to throw a few quid on a draw for 90 mins.Paddy power are giving odds of 13/5 for a draw.
@The Purley King,your a good man for a few quid who you backing ?

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Spurs are really not that bad.

Well they knocked City out who were tipped to win the whole thing.

They barely beat them at Anfield in the middle of that epic run.

Unless Spurs totally freeze or Poch gets his starting 11/formation totally wrong this will be a tight game I reckon. One goal winning margin like both games this season if that.

Was that the game where a clear penalty on Son was not given? I remember seeing replays of the Pool player kicking his foot when he went to shoot.

 

[Terminator]

No way Spurs are even troubling Liverpool.

 

[Le Red]

Why are people denying the existence of momentum and how real it is? This is widespread knowledge in America. I know that don't mean anything since we are talking about European Football, but this is one thing the US Sports Media got right. Momentum is real and it changes the fortunes of teams.

Baseball Team Los Angeles Dodgers failed in back to back World Series(Their version of the CL Finals). I live in LA so I know this. This year, the entire franchise simply stopped trying to get better. The team is literally letting things slide as it is now. The word is the owners were expecting at least one championship and they could have build off that to create a dynasty. Instead getting crushed again last year demoralized the entire organization. The senior players are no longer as motivated and the owners are clearly investing a lot less.


I'm confused why people will argue against something that make sense. If Liverpool loses ANOTHER CL (back to back)their momentum is gone. You really think the mentality of the investors will be the same if Liverpool lose to Tottenham 4-1? Compare to say Liverpool SIX TIMES LAH CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE? If Liverpool loses to Tottenham, expect nothing to happen in the transfer market other than maybe selling. If Liverpool six times this? Expect Liverpool to strengthen their squad like crazy.


Here is another example to put this into perspective:
You are forced to run laps around a football field. Every time you complete a lap, you get 10,000 Pounds.

Scenario 1
Suddenly after your 4th lap, you no longer get 10,000 Pounds for running a lap. You get nothing.

Scenario 2
Suddenly after your 4th lap, you are now getting 1 MILLION POUNDS per lap.

Which scenario are you running harder in? Momentum is everything

Your anti-Liverpool wishful thinking is killing you. "What are investors going to think if they lose?" Maybe that they are one of the top 3 clubs in the world right now with no signs of stopping.

 

[FootballHQ]

Well they knocked City out who were tipped to win the whole thing.



Was that the game where a clear penalty on Son was not given? I remember seeing replays of the Pool player kicking his foot when he went to shoot.

That was the Wembley game I think right at the end of injury time. Liverpool actually dominated that one so draw would've been undeserved for Spurs. They played well at Anfield though which should give them lots of confidence for the final.

 

[The Purley King]

Tempted to throw a few quid on a draw for 90 mins.Paddy power are giving odds of 13/5 for a draw.
@The Purley King,your a good man for a few quid who you backing ?

I'm not sure I can be relied on for a guaranteed win! Weirdly I think if Kane plays from the start then Spurs will lose, but it'll be a draw or Spurs win after 90 minutes if he's on the bench. He's not going to be fit enough to be effective if he starts and he's always looked a little leggy for the first few games after coming back from injury previously.
I'm going to wait to see the teams first, but not going to put much on it, as its too close to call really. Hope Spurs win though!

 

[royboy16]

I'm not sure I can be relied on for a guaranteed win! Weirdly I think if Kane plays from the start then Spurs will lose, but it'll be a draw or Spurs win after 90 minutes if he's on the bench. He's not going to be fit enough to be effective if he starts and he's always looked a little leggy for the first few games after coming back from injury previously.
I'm going to wait to see the teams first, but not going to put much on it, as its too close to call really. Hope Spurs win though!

You were on the money for a Hernandez goal at Utd years ago
Think this one will be decided in extra time.

 

[The Purley King]

You were on the money for a Hernandez goal at Utd years ago
Think this one will be decided in extra time.

haha - stopped clock and all that

 

[croadyman]

Crazy to think they both could have been out at the group stages. Spurs have the slightly better away record in this competition but that is likely to mean very little on Saturday.

Would love Spurs to do it for my dad but fear that Liverpool's experience of playing in a final last year could prove telling.

 

[VBI]

Really not sure about this one. It would look better for Barca to say they went out to the winners of course, and Barca having beaten Spurs comfortably, them being champions of Europe whilst having achieved very little for years and years would be somewhat grating. On the other hand, since the semi final, Liverpool fans on twitter and facebook have become unbearably annoying in huge amounts, even trolling competition pages on facebook because Messi's picture was used. I don't know if I want to read the endless scrolls of poetry that will flow from RAWK if they win. Spurs fans would probably just celebrate like normal people if they win, I assume.

 

[GDaly95]

15 Pages, this thread. I'm amazed that you lot have been able to actively discuss the prospect of Liverpool winning the Champions League for the 6th time.

You're all stronger than I am.

 

[Dumbstar]

Really not sure about this one. It would look better for Barca to say they went out to the winners of course, and Barca having beaten Spurs comfortably, them being champions of Europe whilst having achieved very little for years and years would be somewhat grating. On the other hand, since the semi final, Liverpool fans on twitter and facebook have become unbearably annoying in huge amounts, even trolling competition pages on facebook because Messi's picture was used. I don't know if I want to read the endless scrolls of poetry that will flow from RAWK if they win. Spurs fans would probably just celebrate like normal people if they win, I assume.

Celtic and Barça.  

I feel your pain and can almost taste the salt.

 

[el3mel]

Please Spurs do it and save us all.

 

[RobinLFC]

Really not sure about this one. It would look better for Barca to say they went out to the winners of course, and Barca having beaten Spurs comfortably, them being champions of Europe whilst having achieved very little for years and years would be somewhat grating. On the other hand, since the semi final, Liverpool fans on twitter and facebook have become unbearably annoying in huge amounts, even trolling competition pages on facebook because Messi's picture was used. I don't know if I want to read the endless scrolls of poetry that will flow from RAWK if they win. Spurs fans would probably just celebrate like normal people if they win, I assume.

Do you want to have a look on Liverpool fanpages on Facebook?

 

[Dumbstar]

Please Spurs do it and save us all.

City, Glaston, any other butt cheeks you want to smooch before the season is up? You got two days left.

 

[Amadaeus]

Chelsea and Manchester City results shows that people expecting a Spurs win show keep their hope in check. Chelsea are a better team than Arsenal and Chelsea won. Man City is a better team than Watford and City won. Liverpool is a better team than Spurs, so the conclusion should not be that difficult to make.

 

[FootballHQ]

Chelsea and Manchester City results shows that people expecting a Spurs win show keep their hope in check. Chelsea are a better team than Arsenal and Chelsea won. Man City is a better team than Watford and City won. Liverpool is a better team than Spurs, so the conclusion should not be that difficult to make.

How did Barca v Valencia go again? PSG v Rennes?

Cup finals are cup finals, all about the day and who us settles first as first goal is usually crucial.

Yes Liverpool is better but I wouldn't say it's a massive mismatch given Spurs have knocked out Man. City and Ajax who are pretty decent and in remarkable fashion.

 

[SteveJ]

City, Glaston, any other butt cheeks you want to smooch before the season is up? You got two days left.

Still waiting on replies to all those open letters?

 

[SamVimes]

Chelsea and Manchester City results shows that people expecting a Spurs win show keep their hope in check. Chelsea are a better team than Arsenal and Chelsea won. Man City is a better team than Watford and City won. Liverpool is a better team than Spurs, so the conclusion should not be that difficult to make.

City are a better team than Spurs and Spurs won. Juventus are a better team than Ajax and Ajax won. What's your point?