Brussels mainly. Then various Euro capitals. All trying to get a deal that no one wanted.
China bullies Hong Kong
- Thread starter Cal?
- Start date
The US very recently did that to capture and extradite a Chinese national who was briefly on transit in Vancouver, and the Canadians have recently began extradition procedures on this case. So if the US can do that for Meng Wanzhou in Canada, or Julian Assange in the UK, why can't China do that in HK?I live in Hong Kong and know perfectly well what's been going on and have no interest in what mainlanders think.
Hong Kong's GDP per capita is actually amongst the highest in the world ahead of the likes of Germany and the UK.
The absurdity here is the way the government has tried to leverage the Taiwan murder into passing legislation for extradition to mainland China. The Taiwanese authorities have already confirmed they will NOT accept the extradition under the proposed amendment and plenty of legal experts in both Hong Kong and Taiwan have suggested numerous alternatives for this case.
The Hong Kong government has pressed ahead with the proposed amendment because it allows mainland China to capture whoever they want in Hong Kong. That's they key issue here.
If by living your life well you mean abide by the CCP's every wish, having no freedom of speech, you have a very different idea of living well to most.
They shouldn't be able to (the US), but at least extradition is subject to Canadian law.
Not feeling sorry for the French police, but the number of arrest is more understandable due to the damage in Paris.
Mainly due to the state media (which means the whole media in mainland China) covers each of his trips extensively.
That is exactly one of the key points why so many people are protesting this proposed amendment.
When Canada extradites someone to China, the Canadian courts go through the evidence extensively and often takes a long time to do so.
The proposed amendment in HK allows the courts to look at only the evidence provided by Chinese authorities and gives the court no authority to look at anything else. The CE of HK is supposed to sign off on it and she is basically just a puppet of the PRC.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48645342
The Hong Kong government has suspended its highly controversial plan to allow extraditions to mainland China
The Hong Kong government has suspended its highly controversial plan to allow extraditions to mainland China
Good news and it must be a massive relief during very worrying times.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48645342
The Hong Kong government has suspended its highly controversial plan to allow extraditions to mainland China
The cynic in me doesn't like the word suspension
Very much that, but based on past experience, it tends to be the governments’ usual line to take.
I think in the end, China will realise trying to turn HK into the a state like the mainland is a fight not worth having.
Sadly it is going to be the opposite.
If anyone wants a summary of what China is all about, this is the state newspaper's report on the weekend's protests:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201906/17/WS5d06d79ca3103dbf143287c7.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201906/17/WS5d06d79ca3103dbf143287c7.html
Is there some sort of silent majority in Hong Kong that put a pro-Beijing parliament and leader in power? Or are leaders automatically appointed by Beijing? @Cal?
The CE is elected by the Election Committee. It has 1,200 members and they elect the CE.
The problem is, China controls about 800 of those votes, so basically, they just elect whoever the CCP wants to appoint.
As Gary Neville put it, it's like being given a choice of two blokes to nick your wife.
The 1200 strong Election Committee votes on the leader, and they in turn are elected to that position. The elections for that are quite complex but in short it's an electoral college system where members of each industry, social body, region etc. has a vote over who represents them on the EC. There are anti-China people elected through this process but the way it is structured means China can influence enough candidates and voters to control the whole thing.
What you end up is a massively pro-Beijing and pro-business EC, which means Beijing controls the leader and the tycoons run riot creating the most expensive city on earth.
And when they have full control any one who disagrees disappears into places like this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48821640
Must be close to the Army moving in by now. Storming and defacing the government buildings has not happened before (at least not in the 10 years I've been involved with HK). The Police are backing off and it must be apparent to Beijing that the police are still HK citizens, many will quietly support the protesters.
Must be close to the Army moving in by now. Storming and defacing the government buildings has not happened before (at least not in the 10 years I've been involved with HK). The Police are backing off and it must be apparent to Beijing that the police are still HK citizens, many will quietly support the protesters.
China will get what China wants, as unfortunate as that sounds for the residents of Hong Kong.
The shift from unipolar to multipolar system in the international affairs has been consistently happening for the last 10-15 years. China is a player on the board that can no longer be ignored on any topic or issue.
The shift from unipolar to multipolar system in the international affairs has been consistently happening for the last 10-15 years. China is a player on the board that can no longer be ignored on any topic or issue.
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This is insane. The young protestors are being controlled by foreign parties. Especially the US as Jimmy Lai who is also pictured with meeting Mike Pence and Marco Rubio. The next week the protests started. Now Hong Kong CE has said that part of the extradition is dead so what more they want? They want independence from China which they are not going to get and no country is going to war with China over Hong Kong. Not even the USA.
I think a lot of people do not understand the Basic Law in its entirety.
Article 23 The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.
And do note Article 23 about prohibiting treason and political activities in Hong Kong. China actually is rather lenient as it is, and it can push for a lot of laws far tougher than the extradition bill (which does not even cover ‘political crimes’).
I think a lot of people do not understand the Basic Law in its entirety.
Article 23 The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.
And do note Article 23 about prohibiting treason and political activities in Hong Kong. China actually is rather lenient as it is, and it can push for a lot of laws far tougher than the extradition bill (which does not even cover ‘political crimes’).
Jimmy Lai has been pro-democracy in China and Hong Kong since the Tiananmen Protests and subsequent massacre. I don't think Marco Rubio or Mike Pence is doing anything that would chance his opinions or those of the young people protesting against the increasingly repressive stance the CCP is taking in Hong Kong.
That is the exact problem. There is no way China is going to give Hong Kong independent. That is why I think it is insane. You should pick fights that you can win. The extradition one is the one they won but independence is one that they cannot win. The CCP has not taken a stance against Hong Kong YET. I was there last week too and that place is going to the dogs soon. The housing is so expensive most people cannot afford it. It has got the world's most expensive parking spot for more than half a million dollars. The rich are getting more filthy rich and the poor are getting poorer. Shenzen is taking over Hong Kong in a lot of the businesses. It is the filthy rich manipulating the naive young. I was there during the earlier umbrella demonstration too. No where would the authorities let anyone block the main business street for weeks but in Hong Kong.
No one is going to fight the Chinese over Hong Kong. Only empty words.
The Hong Kongers who are protesting should read Sun Tzu and know which battles to fight and when to fight.
They couldn't care less what foreigners think. They're doing this for themselves, and rightly so. There is very little foreign influence beyond China itself mostly because nobody wants to get involved in what could potentially escalate into another Tiananmen Square.
I agree with pretty much all of that (especially the last part for obvious reasons)
I would add that I don't think the Chinese government is foolish enough to risk sending tanks against protesters again but through intelligent use of taxation and other governmental incentives they will be able to entice over tie most of the big international businesses into Shenzhen (and clearly Shanghai for finance etc) and once you take that away HK really does loose anything that makes it stand out as special - clearly after 2047 the 2 systems approach formally ends and to prepare for such an ending (especially with the way the chines government plans) there will be a 20 year transition plan in place and we are seeing the start of that now.
The UK will clearly want a trade deal and the days of sending gunboats to the region are long gone so I dont expect too much fuss from the UK and who else is going to make a fuss - same with Macau
Do you really think there has been little foreign influence in China's affairs, just because they are afraid of another Tiananmen?
Regarding what? Of course foreign powers try to influence other foreign powers.
The people out protesting on the streets in HK are not doing so because they've been coerced into it by the US though. They couldn't care less what the US or anybody else thinks.
Yes, but they are probably receiving foreign assistance. Something like whatsapp messages teaching them how to organize and continue their protests and fight for more.
I doubt it, at least to any significant degree. I was there for the umbrella protests in 2014 and whilst i don't live there anymore i still know a lot of people going out on the streets. Outside of general meeting places and routes there is very little coordination. It is mostly kids and young people learning as they go along, for example this time they're sticking to the weekends and keeping disruption to a minimum.
The only blatant external influences are the groups of triads going out at the behest of the government/police to start fights and try and turn things violent.
With all due respect, that's a load of rubbish. People are protesting because of China's ever increasing influence in HK affairs, and this is currently being manifested in their attempt to legalise the snatch squads that already operate in Hong Kong.
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With all due respect it is part of China
He's still living in the past it seems.
@Sky1981 that article totally misses the point, intentionally by the looks of it, that it is not this specific law that people are concerned with. It is just the flashpoint for a much bigger issue as people are seeing their independence eroded.
And that's the bigger problem. To you and me it is, but HK people do not see themselves as part of China. That issue will never resolve itself peacefully.
If the big bad china really wants you gone they can do so with or without the regulations. Do you honestly think if ccp wants an individual gone they'd need all this regulations? They just need a phone call to whomever in charge of hongkong.
Does hk got taxed differently?
Does hk got treated unfairly?
Does hk got limited in doing trade with the world?
Does hk got limited freedom of speech?
Does hk got told what to do, when to do, etc?
Does china abducts political activist?
Does china sets the housing prices?
Independent? The hk citizen can travel anywhere they want, they can do anything they wish to do, they can post on facebook and instagram, what independent do they expect?
Is it China's contention that HK citizens wouldn't be protesting if not for the evil West? How sad.
Not that Ive seen.... got any quotes where they actually say that?
Aye, this is what I was referring to.