China bullies Hong Kong
- Thread starter Cal?
- Start date
Yes they have all that and they're protesting because they want to keep them. In China you have none of those things.
I do agree that many of the young in Hong Kong do not feel Chinese. They think they are superior to the Mainland Chinese and think of themselves as British. But the reality is that no matter what China is not going to let go of Hong Kong. When Mrs. Thatcher tried to keep British influence at the time of the handover the Chinese told her that they could take Hong Kong in a day.
The main reason why the Triads are attacking the protestors is not because they love the mainland Chinese. It is because their business has started to get effected badly. In most western countries people do not understand about the effects of daily rioting. In small cities daily rioting effects business very badly and eventually they will strike back.
Eventually The Hong Kong Authorities will strike back and start arresting people. Who is going to sanction China on this? USA? They already have sanctioned China on most issues. Sanction Hong Kong? That will kill Hong Kong and play exactly into the hands of China.
I would also like to add that there are so may different kinds of Chinese people even in the mainland China. It is not that they are all the same.
Now I even wonder if the Chinese government may have played a blinder and let the western countries sanction Hong Kong. Of course if would look stupid if they sanction China for something the Hong Kong legislative council does.
The main reason why the Triads are attacking the protestors is not because they love the mainland Chinese. It is because their business has started to get effected badly. In most western countries people do not understand about the effects of daily rioting. In small cities daily rioting effects business very badly and eventually they will strike back.
Eventually The Hong Kong Authorities will strike back and start arresting people. Who is going to sanction China on this? USA? They already have sanctioned China on most issues. Sanction Hong Kong? That will kill Hong Kong and play exactly into the hands of China.
I would also like to add that there are so may different kinds of Chinese people even in the mainland China. It is not that they are all the same.
Now I even wonder if the Chinese government may have played a blinder and let the western countries sanction Hong Kong. Of course if would look stupid if they sanction China for something the Hong Kong legislative council does.
The protests are not taking place in the Triads main business areas.
The rumour has long been that they do it at the behest of the police to try and turn public against the protests, and get some favour with the police in return. When you see how the police stand by and let them violently attack people it's hard not to believe it.
People having sympathy for the Triads in the thread or am I misreading? 
Perhaps they should leave China then?
Would you say the same to the people protesting in the US, for example?
No but I didn't grow up in the USA
How does that make sense?
Funny how that's never an acceptable suggestion on our own shores, only when it's happening on the other side of the world.
And a lot did at the handover. Vancouver, Los Angeles, and other cities have huge Cantonese populations for that very reason.
Ive grown up in HK so feel I have a bit better understanding of the situation
Yup we left a bit before the handover... Many people insisted things would never change... I thought they were foolish at the time (tail wagging dogs etc)Funny how that's never an acceptable suggestion on our own shores, only when it's happening on the other side of the world.
And a lot did at the handover. Vancouver, Los Angeles, and other cities have huge Cantonese populations for that very reason.
I have been to HK many a times and have friends too there. This is more than just the extradition bill. HK was going to boil over no matter what. The real estate is under the control of the tycoons. The LegCo wanted to improve the housing a few years back but the tycoons pushed it back. They do not want the real estate prices to come down. Now there is a lot of pressure on HK because of Shenzhen and the development there. I think Shenzhen has already overtaken HK now and the Chinese are gradually making it easy for people to visit Shenzhen and soon HK could be useless to China.
The protests are destroying business, especially the small businesses. Now during the earlier Yellow Umbrella movement they pitched tents but stayed in the middle of the road in Mongkok but allowed the pedestrians to move about on the pavements(sidewalk). This stopped the destruction of the small business as people on foot can walk and visit the shops. Now this violent protests is hurting the businesses as a lot of people from mainland China are not coming over now. The people from mainland China were a lot of the visiting customers as they come out for even day outings.
China is no democracy but it is neither a total dictatorship. Now don't say they are communists. Yes I know it is the CPC but if they are communist so is Singapore. China is a meritocracy and if Xi Jinping fails he will be replaced by someone else by the Standing Committee. HK is picking up a fight that they cannot win and it is sad that this is happening to HK. They should protest on things they can win, like the extradition bill. Not try to get independence which they will never get.
The protests are destroying business, especially the small businesses. Now during the earlier Yellow Umbrella movement they pitched tents but stayed in the middle of the road in Mongkok but allowed the pedestrians to move about on the pavements(sidewalk). This stopped the destruction of the small business as people on foot can walk and visit the shops. Now this violent protests is hurting the businesses as a lot of people from mainland China are not coming over now. The people from mainland China were a lot of the visiting customers as they come out for even day outings.
China is no democracy but it is neither a total dictatorship. Now don't say they are communists. Yes I know it is the CPC but if they are communist so is Singapore. China is a meritocracy and if Xi Jinping fails he will be replaced by someone else by the Standing Committee. HK is picking up a fight that they cannot win and it is sad that this is happening to HK. They should protest on things they can win, like the extradition bill. Not try to get independence which they will never get.
So im guessing you identify as Chinese but don't feel as though you're from China, same as most in HK. What would you suggest the millions who don't want to be taken over by China but don't have the option to leave do?
Tbh it's slightly more complex
Born UK
Lived in hk.... English and Thai parents
Moved back to UK
Moved back to China (mainland)
Lived in thailand
Back to UK for uni
Lived in USA for a few years
Worked in London
Then NYC
Married Chinese girl
I'm not sure how I identify these days
But I'm sure the HK situation is more complex and nuanced then the UK or cineAe portrait
But anybody who held long ok hk based on the tail wagging the dog was always Cray Cray
It's so easy to dismiss some things when it's not our freedom and democracy on the line. Oh well, it's China, what are you gonna do...
What democracy and freedom when western countries invade anywhere they want to invade and destroy them? How about the million people who marched against the illegal Iraqi invasion in London? Did they British government give a fig? It is the same all over the world. They can protest to their hearts content without resorting to violence and they will be left alone like in the 2014 when they had the Yellow Umbrella protest.
If the protestors in London at that time tried to attack the Palace of Westminster then you would have seen what the Met would have done. They have kettled people in the past and even killed a guy who was trying to get back home who had nothing to do with any protest.
I would not even mention the USA where if this has happened and they attack Capitol Hill, God Forbid how many would have been killed.
If the protestors in London at that time tried to attack the Palace of Westminster then you would have seen what the Met would have done. They have kettled people in the past and even killed a guy who was trying to get back home who had nothing to do with any protest.
I would not even mention the USA where if this has happened and they attack Capitol Hill, God Forbid how many would have been killed.
To be fair, the Iraq invasion was not backed by NATO so it is mainly the responsibility of the US and the UK.
I am not saying it was NATO but in the so called democratic countries the public has no say in at all in the Government policies.
I actually thought that many of those white shirted thugs were either business owners, or hired by them, because they are the ones hurting the most from these protests. When I put that in the dailymail comments section however I got downvoted by the hive mind. People seem to believe that the only ones in opposition must be tied to the Chinese government.
True, but I think it's utopian to believe it will ever change. There is a reason why intelligence and counter-intelligence agencies exist, why there are classified documents and information, and so on. I mean, it's public knowledge that Western allies spy on each other, yet nothing too much is made out of it.
Agree with you on that but Iraq has shown that they lie too to get their own way. If we look at the Cuban Crisis now we know that JFK was the one who actually stopped the escalation of the situation and the military and the CIA were lying to POTUS to get their own way.
I am sure it was the same in the Iraq war too and Bush was not strong enough like JFK to fight them. We still do not know who was involved the his murder.
The Triads are part of the local mafia who has escaped from the Chinese government to conduct their illegal business. Yes they do not want any of the extradition bill to pass and they supported the protest to get rid of the extradition bill or else some of them or at least the Chinese citizens who have escaped to Hong Kong could be extradited to mainland China.
They never wanted more out of it. Now the extradition bill has been killed they want to get back to make their money and all these protests is hurting them badly. Very badly and it is obvious that they are going to strike back at whoever is trying to harm their business. Especially the protestors who are fighting the Police and the government of HK.
That's also easy to answer, but many people would label such argumentation as conspiracy theory. The fact is certain elites and powerful circles of people and international entities exist, which have interests that go above any state, alliance or country. It's even more prevalent in our modern history due to the total globalisation of world operations.
I myself have knowledge of a lot of actions and operations that happen behind the scenes in my domestic region due to very specific family connections, so can only imagine what the truth is when the scales are global.
Yes true. I knew "some people" in Bulgaria in the early 90s and I can believe exactly what you say. I have been to Sofia and a few other places in Bulgaria.
I figured by your posts that you were a man of culture, as the saying goes.
Even with my knowledge, sometimes I still let myself be unpleasantly surprised by the things that happen, whilst all of our Western "allies" allow it with full knowledge of the details - I'm 100% sure of that too because it's not very difficult to realise if you are a smart and connected person, let alone if you have special agencies to gather intel on such matters exclusively.
You are a year older than my father so I can easily see the types of people you had in mind when talking about the 90s. It's a very mythical and legendary time of our country's history when it comes to basically the forming of our mafia with the help of the previous and former communist elite.
Yes what surprised me was that it was the former communists who became the new democrats and formed the government. Went to a few places outside Sofia too including Rila and Varna. So long as you knew the right people it was alright in Bulgaria then. I wished I had to chance to go later too. The last time was in 2000.
You had a fantastic football player in Dimitar Berbatov. I would pay to watch him play no matter what club he had played. I also saw Philip Kirkorov in Varna.
You had a fantastic football player in Dimitar Berbatov. I would pay to watch him play no matter what club he had played. I also saw Philip Kirkorov in Varna.
There are many intricate details I could go into about all of this but I am cautious about what I say or write, because you never know who could monitor or want to check on your activities, even if they happen in unexpected places on the internet. But I would say that your statement is very factual and there are very specific reasons to it, which involve all of the political parties and all the economical circles in Bulgaria.
And thank you for the appreciation to Berba, he is a national treasure to the rational thinking side of my nation. Incredibly, there is a very peculiar story about him during his footballing days here that involves the mafia.
A very prominent mafia boss by the name of Georgi Iliev took him hostage to make him sign a contract for the team he owned (Levski Kyustendil) - however, the club Berbatov was playing at already (CSKA Sofia) was owned by another powerful individual, Iliya Pavlov, who was the boss of a competitive mob organisation. Eventually the two bosses made some sort of deal and Berba was released safe and sound, though a few years later both of those people were publicly assassinated, each time by a sniper.If you do what the HKers do in UK/US, you'd be either shot or get thrown in Jail.
They most likely are. They were also out in the far more peaceful Umbrella protests, trying to stir up violence and being allowed to do so by the police. They are most definitely not business owners, they are triads, but who is controlling them is a more open question.
Really? In the UK and US people have to protest because they're afraid of losing their freedom and because they're afraid of being controlled by a genocidal oppressive dictatorship? Fair enough I didn't know that.
They have protested in the US because they are getting shot by the Police for no good reasons. How many have been arrested? Lots for sure.
This protest has got nothing to do with the Chinese dictatorship at all. They have a lot more freedom in HK than anyone in China has. A lot of Chinese have escaped from China to HK after lot of corruption and scams. China itself has many extradition treaties and so does HK. What many people forget or ignore is that the HK Judiciary is an independent Judiciary and hence the extradition has to be approved by the HK courts and the crime has to be a crime under the HK Law which is not the same as the Chinese Law.
Anyway the point is moot now because the extradition treaty is dead according to the LegCo. So why are they protesting still about the extradition treaty and why all the violence?
This protest has got nothing to do with the Chinese dictatorship at all. They have a lot more freedom in HK than anyone in China has. A lot of Chinese have escaped from China to HK after lot of corruption and scams. China itself has many extradition treaties and so does HK. What many people forget or ignore is that the HK Judiciary is an independent Judiciary and hence the extradition has to be approved by the HK courts and the crime has to be a crime under the HK Law which is not the same as the Chinese Law.
Anyway the point is moot now because the extradition treaty is dead according to the LegCo. So why are they protesting still about the extradition treaty and why all the violence?
Yeah I'm sure if those people lived in a western free nation they would be protesting and breaking stuff just because it's fun.
Because the protests are not about the extradition treaty. They never were. That was just a catalyst. People in Hong Kong are out on the streets because they want to stop the gradual take over by Beijing. They don't even really want independence, they just want things to stay as they are.
Sorry to say then you have no idea what the conditions in HK are. If things remain as they are then HK will be dead in a few years time. The real estate prices are so high that no one can hope to buy their own place. There is unemployment and the economy is unsustainable for the majority of people of Hong Kong. the fact that the real estates in the hands of a few tycoons is the main problem in HK. The LegCo tried to bring about the changes but the opposition party opposed it so it failed.
The fact that the Chinese have kept their hands off and let the LegCo run the domestic affairs of HK is the biggest failure. The one country two system is not going to work when the power of HK is in the hands of the few tycoons. They do not want to solve the housing problems because they lose a lot if the LegCo tries to implement their version of the housing scheme. One parking spot went for over half a million dollars. What the majority of the tourists see are the major huge shops and hotels etc but they do not see how the ordinary people live in Hong Kong. Shenzhen next door has already over taken HK and if China wants to kill HK, they will just let as things are and in a few years no one will say anything about HK.
Do you know that the people of HK pay less tax than the people in mainland China? Do you know that there is no military in HK? There is no military service in HK like in places like Singapore, Taiwan etc. The mainland China pays for the security of HK.
China has to force HK to bring real estate reforms and it is the only way HK can survive.
Enter re-education camps like the Uighur?
I lived there for 7 of the last 8 years. I think I know what the conditions in HK are
Fact is the majority in HK have it quite good and they know this. They're protesting to keep the status quo, not because they want change.
It seems that you do not know the situation even then. I go to HK once in two weeks and spend at least a month there. If There is no change in the situation then HK will die. The extradition bill requires double criminality. That means if it is not a crime under HK Law no one can be extradited. HK problems are deeper than that. The main issue is financial. HK's housing is only 6% of its land. Even a 2 % increase in the public housing will alleviate a lot of problems but the middle class do not want to increase housing as they fear it may effect them who owns their houses and properties. The extradition bill is now dead and will not be brought back as they know what will happen. If they want to keep the status quo why riot when the extradition bill is now dead?
This current rioting will surely inflate the unemployment and HK does not have a public unemployment policy. Now most of the high end shops have their retail down by 50% and it will increase as more rioting goes on. Unless they stop self destruction then HK is dead. And no matter what China is not going to let it become independent.
This current rioting will surely inflate the unemployment and HK does not have a public unemployment policy. Now most of the high end shops have their retail down by 50% and it will increase as more rioting goes on. Unless they stop self destruction then HK is dead. And no matter what China is not going to let it become independent.
All of what you say has nothing to do with the rioting. Housing has been unaffordable for years (and mainland China has a lot to do with that) and retail was down long before the protests started. The protests are about something else, obviously going there as a tourist you don't get to see it.