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A-man

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Of course anybody can miss a header but that's like saying you're fine with your striker missing a chance from within the 6 yard box. Except it's not just one header or one chance.


4 mins in.

He has history for it but you're just accepting indecisiveness and mediocrity.

You talk about cover. Look at Smalling covering there 2 yards away from him. We still conceded. He has history of it and for you continue to defend him then claim others are hating, who has the bias here.
That lost header was fifty (50!) matche's ago. Doesn't make him having a history of it. Do you believe Rio Ferdinands was mediocre because of losing a header against a 1 metre tall Messi in the CL finals? Defenders lose headers. That's why Smalling covered. This is basics.

Lindelof is not strong in the air but doesn't take away Maguires responsibility to do his job.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Lindelof is the most over rated player on here.

For me the only area he's better than Smalling is ball at his feet. Defensively I rate Smalling better. In the air it's not a contest. Smalling is quicker and also offers us a goal threat in the opponent's box. He's got quite a few big goals for us.

Smalling and Maguire would have been my starting two with Tuanzebe and Lindelof as back ups.

Jones and Rojo were the deadwood not Smalling.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Lindelof is the most over rated player on here.

For me the only area he's better than Smalling is ball at his feet. Defensively I rate Smalling better. In the air it's not a contest. Smalling is quicker and also offers us a goal threat in the opponent's box. He's got quite a few big goals for us.

Smalling and Maguire would have been my starting two with Tuanzebe and Lindelof as back ups.

Jones and Rojo were the deadwood not Smalling.
Lindelöf is much better at reading danger and being on the front foot defensively. Smalling is more of a reactive defender who gets by with his athleticism.
 

Dan_F

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Says it all that he’s willing to go out and test himself, while Jones and Rojo are happy to sit on the bench and collect their wage. He is 100% better than both, but the problem we would have is that pairing him with Maguire would mean that we neutralise all of Maguire’s talent on the ball. All teams would just press him and let Smalling have the ball.

I’m glad that Tuanzebe is going to be third choice and hope that people don’t get on his back when he makes the mistakes that all young defenders do.
 

Ban

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Didn't know there are "Smalling apologists" round here. If you dare not to shit on Mike I guess that makes you one?
 

MadDogg

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Lindelöf is much better at reading danger and being on the front foot defensively. Smalling is more of a reactive defender who gets by with his athleticism.
Smalling is at his best when he's playing on the front foot. That's why his best was when we were playing a high line under LVG and he was the dominant defender next to the more passive Blind.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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He’s going to be 30 soon, that’s as much value as someone my age now practicing and learning algebra or smth equally ridiculous :lol:

The Smallimg apologists thinking he will walk into the Roma team, be first choice and take Serie A, a predominantly defensive league, by storm are heavily deluded but we are in the Smalling thread, so that’s a given :houllier:
Has anyone actually said he's going to "take Serie A by storm"?
 

JK-27

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Sad that we let him go and have kept Bailly, Jones, and Rojo - shows how standards have massively fallen at the club.
 

RussellWilson

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Come back Mike.
 

The Mitcher

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I guess this is a classic case of "you don't know what you have until it's gone."
 

criticalanalysis

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That lost header was fifty (50!) matche's ago. Doesn't make him having a history of it. Do you believe Rio Ferdinands was mediocre because of losing a header against a 1 metre tall Messi in the CL finals? Defenders lose headers. That's why Smalling covered. This is basics.

Lindelof is not strong in the air but doesn't take away Maguires responsibility to do his job.
Firstly Ferdinand did not lose a header against Messi because he was never in a position to contest it. We were run ragged by Barca and it was great movement from Messi and cross from Xavi.

Going back to Linderlof, of course anybody can lose a header, I'm not disputing that it happens. I won't use Southampton's goal against him because I thought he did as best as he could have in that situation, I mean at least he jumped and and tried to affect the outcome. I will call things as impartially as I can. However, if you watched the 2nd half, there was a few times, he just let high balls drop and somehow got it away/out of his feet.

I'm saying he should not be losing that kind of header i.e a long kick from the keeper. That is basics.

Having a first touch. Keepers covering their near posts. Showing wide men the outside channel. Getting the ball out of your feet. Holding the ball. Moving the ball with pace. I could go on, these are simple fundamentals.

Losing a header that was launched 70 yards away when you're in the most advantageous positon to cover it, twice leading to conceded goals is showing history. I've only posted was what recounted by someone else. I'm sure they are other examples. Nobody is excusing Maguire's part of it but it largely down to Lindelof.

The fact you tried to spin it as Maguire's fault is just baffling. I don't want to say it but your bias is clouding your judgement.
 

Hughes35

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Utterly stupid to let him go. If he had started against Maguire we'd have 2 more wins this season than we do currently.

10 times the defender Lindelof is.

State of our club now.
 

RedPed

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Utterly stupid to let him go. If he had started against Maguire we'd have 2 more wins this season than we do currently.

10 times the defender Lindelof is.

State of our club now.
Nonsense. He's not on penalties. And we conceded 54 goals last season when he was with us. What argument are going to spin every time Roma concede a goal? Perhaps we would have had two more wins if Bailly or Jones had started? Yeah he might have stopped the header but he could also have fecked up in other plays.
 

SteveW

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Smalling Maguire would have dominated every team in the league aerially. Instead we have a cb costing us games by losing every header
 

Hughes35

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Nonsense. He's not on penalties. And we conceded 54 goals last season when he was with us. What argument are going to spin every time Roma concede a goal? Perhaps we would have had two more wins if Bailly or Jones had started? Yeah he might have stopped the header but he could also have fecked up in other plays.
You don't think Smalling would have won the 2 headers Lindelof lost?

We didn't miss a penalty against Southampton so penalties are irrelevant in that game.

About conceding 54 goals last year, Smalling was the partner of muck like Lindelof with Ashley Young at RB, If he had partnered Maguire and Bissaka our record would have been much better. Our defensive looks just as bad this year and it's because you're only as strong as your weakest link.
 

RedPed

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You don't think Smalling would have won the 2 headers Lindelof lost?

We didn't miss a penalty against Southampton so penalties are irrelevant in that game.
I'm not disputing that at all. I'm just challenging your assertion that we would have won the games if he had been playing. You can't just take those headers in isolation as Smalling was crap in almost every other situation so we still could have conceded in other ways. If we had scored those penalties, our league position and points would be looking completely different right now.

Like I said, we still conceded 54 goals last season so having him in the team didn't really make much difference did it? It's just all ifs and buts? Are you expecting Roma not to concede any goals and win every game now?
 

M Bison

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Grass is always greener...

Smalling has been absolutely hammered on here over the past few years and now all of a sudden he’s our saviour and we shouldn’t have let him go.

Bizarre.
 

Hughes35

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You don't think Smalling would have won the 2 headers Lindelof lost?

We didn't miss a penalty against Southampton so penalties are irrelevant in that game.
I'm not disputing that at all. I'm just challenging your assertion that we would have won the games if he had been playing. You can't just take those headers in isolation as Smalling was crap in almost every other situation so we still could have conceded in other ways. If we had scored those penalties, our league position and points would be looking completely different right now.

Like I said, we still conceded 54 goals last season so having him in the team didn't really make much difference did it? It's just all ifs and buts? Are you expecting Roma not to concede any goals and win every game now?
There is more of a spectrum than either rubbish or brilliant. If you check my posts I've actually said for years that I rate Smalling very highly and think as a pure defender he's been one of the best in the Prem for a number of years. That doesn't mean I think he's a world beater but In my opinion he can defend like Victor never has.

It's obviously all hypothetical but yes, I believe we would now have more points if Smalling had played all our games instead of Victor and I also believe Roma will be better defensively than they were before signing him.
 

RedPed

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There is more of a spectrum than either rubbish or brilliant. If you check my posts I've actually said for years that I rate Smalling very highly and think as a pure defender he's been one of the best in the Prem for a number of years. That doesn't mean I think he's a world beater but In my opinion he can defend like Victor never has.

It's obviously all hypothetical but yes, I believe we would now have more points if Smalling had played all our games instead of Victor and I also believe Roma will be better defensively than they were before signing him.
I didn't ask if Roma would be better defensively, I asked if you expect them to get clean sheets and win every game? You also seem to be dismissing our record last season. So, I really don't understand your assumption of guaranteed points with Smalling in the side? We would have had more points if Bailly had started too.
 

Hughes35

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I didn't ask if Roma would be better defensively, I asked if you expect them to get clean sheets and win every game? You also seem to be dismissing our record last season. So, I really don't understand your assumption of guaranteed points with Smalling in the side? We would have had more points if Bailly had started too.
Well obviously not because I am not mentally deranged. I wouldn't expect a back 5 of Buffon, Ferdinand, Maldini, Thuram and Cole to have kept a clean sheet and win every game. What a stupid question to try and get a point across.

I think behind Maguire, Smalling was our best defender, hence I believe we would have conceded less goals. I believe he would have won the 2 headers that Victor lost and in turn we would have more points.

I've also already explained that I think the reason for our bad record last year was more down to Young as a RB, Lindelof being dreadful and none of the others could stay fit. It was bad despite Smalling, not because of him.
 

devilish

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Smalling was our 2-3 best CB. We should have kept him and got rid of Rojo and facial expressions. If he wanted out then we should still get rid of those players and added a decent CB instead
 

RedPed

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Well obviously not because I am not mentally deranged. I wouldn't expect a back 5 of Buffon, Ferdinand, Maldini, Thuram and Cole to have kept a clean sheet and win every game. What a stupid question to try and get a point across.

I think behind Maguire, Smalling was our best defender, hence I believe we would have conceded less goals. I believe he would have won the 2 headers that Victor lost and in turn we would have more points.

I've also already explained that I think the reason for our bad record last year was more down to Young as a RB, Lindelof being dreadful and none of the others could stay fit. It was bad despite Smalling, not because of him.
Typical response from a Smalling apologist and very selective in their reasoning. We win games because of Smalling. We lose games because of everybody else but Smalling. Somebody tried to use clean sheets stats as a way of claiming how good Smalling was when it was really DDG saving his ass every week.

I can guarantee that his performance thread will get bumped every time United lose and/or Roma win.
 

Bestietom

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Smalling was our 2-3 best CB. We should have kept him and got rid of Rojo and facial expressions. If he wanted out then we should still get rid of those players and added a decent CB instead
We should have got replacements for Herrera and Lukaku also, but we didn't, and this is showing to be our downfall.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Grass is always greener...

Smalling has been absolutely hammered on here over the past few years and now all of a sudden he’s our saviour and we shouldn’t have let him go.

Bizarre.
Hammered by a percentage of fans. Not all. The other percentage probably think like myself it’s a bit weird to send probably our 2nd or 3rd best defender out on loan when the others are far worse. However he might be the only one there was a properly good offer for and a willingness to go.

Hopefully Tuanzebe, Rojo and Jones stay fit because at some point they’ll be needed.
 

kouroux

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Well obviously not because I am not mentally deranged. I wouldn't expect a back 5 of Buffon, Ferdinand, Maldini, Thuram and Cole to have kept a clean sheet and win every game. What a stupid question to try and get a point across.

I think behind Maguire, Smalling was our best defender, hence I believe we would have conceded less goals. I believe he would have won the 2 headers that Victor lost and in turn we would have more points.

I've also already explained that I think the reason for our bad record last year was more down to Young as a RB, Lindelof being dreadful and none of the others could stay fit. It was bad despite Smalling, not because of him.
I get your feeling regarding but this is nonsense. If Smalling played, things would have been different to an extent that no knows if he wouldn't have cost us in some other way. Basically you're convincing yourself of something that's impossible to prove. Smalling is better in the air but he can make mistakes in other ways.
 

devilish

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We should have got replacements for Herrera and Lukaku also, but we didn't, and this is showing to be our downfall.
We needed 4 other players to the ones signed ie RW, DM, B2B and Stk. What we are witnessing is not a rebuild but a furious attempt to balance the books
 

Bestietom

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We needed 4 other players to the ones signed ie RW, DM, B2B and Stk. What we are witnessing is not a rebuild but a furious attempt to balance the books
Agree, but you can't expect a rebuild with 100 million and Woodward taking 2 months to get deals over the line, and eventually paying was was asked for in the first place.
 

A-man

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Losing a header that was launched 70 yards away when you're in the most advantageous positon to cover it, twice leading to conceded goals is showing history. I've only posted was what recounted by someone else. I'm sure they are other examples. Nobody is excusing Maguire's part of it but it largely down to Lindelof.

The fact you tried to spin it as Maguire's fault is just baffling. I don't want to say it but your bias is clouding your judgement.
It is basic. You cover when your CB partner goes up in the air. Maguire is one of the best in PL in the air in my opinion a d according to the stats. Yet Lindelof need to cover for him when he goes up. Always.

Watch against Southampton and you will see a couple of aerials where Lindelof covered for Maguire. At around 6:15 is one example. Ball is hoofed from Southamptons penalty box and Maguire goes up against a 20 cm shorter and 25 kg lighter Adams. The balls goes straight to closest Southampton player who immediately passes the ball to Adams. Adams has started a run and Maguire is still on his heels. However Lindelof was not jogging 20 metres away, instead he covered the space behind Maguire and the second Adams took off from Maguire, Lindelof was already sprinting. This was one of the best in the air against a tiny attacker. Lindelof covered anyway because that is what you do. Always. You never know where the ball might end up.

Here are some pics of the situation.


imgur.com/a/Gv21xmH
 

RedCurry

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It is basic. You cover when your CB partner goes up in the air. Maguire is one of the best in PL in the air in my opinion a d according to the stats. Yet Lindelof need to cover for him when he goes up. Always.

Watch against Southampton and you will see a couple of aerials where Lindelof covered for Maguire. At around 6:15 is one example. Ball is hoofed from Southamptons penalty box and Maguire goes up against a 20 cm shorter and 25 kg lighter Adams. The balls goes straight to closest Southampton player who immediately passes the ball to Adams. Adams has started a run and Maguire is still on his heels. However Lindelof was not jogging 20 metres away, instead he covered the space behind Maguire and the second Adams took off from Maguire, Lindelof was already sprinting. This was one of the best in the air against a tiny attacker. Lindelof covered anyway because that is what you do. Always. You never know where the ball might end up.

Here are some pics of the situation.


imgur.com/a/Gv21xmH
You're right. Though the challenge is when the opposition is playing with a target man up top, who out of our defenders should go for that initial header/tackle? With Lindelof in there it has always got to be Maguire who marks the target man. Having Smalling in the team would mean that Maguire could play as the deepest outfield player and a sweeper defender. He could start the build up play once Smalling has dealt with the attacking threat. Liverpool have the luxury of giving VVD that free sweeper role and he only engages when he absolutely has to, because Matip is quite capable in the air and at man marking.
 

A-man

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You're right. Though the challenge is when the opposition is playing with a target man up top, who out of our defenders should go for that initial header/tackle? With Lindelof in there it has always got to be Maguire who marks the target man. Having Smalling in the team would mean that Maguire could play as the deepest outfield player and a sweeper defender. He could start the build up play once Smalling has dealt with the attacking threat. Liverpool have the luxury of giving VVD that free sweeper role and he only engages when he absolutely has to, because Matip is quite capable in the air and at man marking.
They would get different roles for sure and probably the whole game would be different. On the other hand I think Lindelof would be able to take that role as well and stay behind Maguire and start build up. I know loads of people don't think he's a good defender but I think he is quite good at covering behind the other CB who is going forward. A few more matches and they will know eachother better and it will work smoothly, I hope :)

I don't say you're wrong in your thinking but I haven't thought of VVD as someone who only engages when he has to. I think, just like Maguire, he really likes to go in to every possible duel. Sometimes even a bit too eager.
 

AJ10

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Utterly stupid to let him go. If he had started against Maguire we'd have 2 more wins this season than we do currently.

10 times the defender Lindelof is.

State of our club now.
:lol::lol:

Don't even rate Victor that much but all of a sudden people have forgotten how bad smalling was. Comments on here would suggest he's been great for us but in reality he wasn't that much better than the other trash we have.