Club Sale | It’s done!

[Infra-red]

They made Erik look at purely loans in January,don't you dare now go back on word of wanting to sell the club

I want them gone as much as the next person, but, unfortunately, they have never given their word that they will sell the club. They have only made two comments on this matter - their original statement when they announced that they were "commencing a process to explore strategic alternatives for the club" in November and when Avram was doorstepped in Qatar in December.

Statement in November: "As part of this process, the Board will consider all strategic alternatives, including new investment into the club, a sale, or other transactions involving the Company. This will include an assessment of several initiatives to strengthen the club, including stadium and infrastructure redevelopment, and expansion of the club’s commercial operations on a global scale, each in the context of enhancing the long-term success of the club’s men’s, women’s and academy teams, and bringing benefits to fans and other stakeholders."

That could easily mean a strategic partner (minority sale).

Avram in December: "It's not necessarily a sale, it's a process and we're going forward with the process, so we'll see what happens."

It may well be that a full sale happens (I hope it does), but a minority sale would not be inconsistent with anything that the club/the Glazers have said regarding this "process".

 

[#07]

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One of two things is happening:

1. Nobody wants to meet the Glazers' valuation. The Glazers aren't willing to compromise, so they're laying the ground for a U-turn on selling.
2. The Glazers are trying to puff up their valuation of Man Utd by claiming they really don't want to sell.

Now, the Glazers don't strike me as particularly savvy businessmen. So, option two is possible. However, one would have to wonder what would be the point. Anyone interested would have spoken to Raine and been able to establish what kind of offer would be accepted. The Glazers don't need to communicate this through the media.

Having seen how FSG has already scaled back it's ambitions for a sale, it's not beyond the pale to think that the Glazers might not sell. If they honestly believe that in a better financial climate they could get more dough, why would they not?

The Glazers show no sign of giving a crap about the infrastructure of the club. So they don't need to spend on it. There are also strategic ways to reduce squad costs and medium to long term losses. Especially if Ten Hag can bring back the revenue boost that comes with success.

Really it's a question of whether they have the patience to scale back on their dividends, management fees, loans and other ways they drain United to feed their wallets.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

It might have already been said here (if so, apologies - huge thread) but my worry is that the Glazers are doing this to take some heat off them for a bit - ‘oh well, we tried to sell’. I’m concerned they only intend to sell for crazy, basically impossible money because they don’t actually really want to sell the club. Maybe I’m just getting duped by the media briefings which could well be designed to be negotiation tactics. I just want them gone.

 

[yumtum]

I'm hoping to move to Manchester within the next year, will gladly join the protests to get these parasites out.

 

[crossy1686]

Calling bullshit on this.

From what the Athletic have said, Joel is the only one who wants to keep United, all the others want out and think now is the time to sell.

They’ll have to hold the club for years, like another 10 years to get anymore out of the club. It doesn’t matter how much United win between now and then, the clubs value won’t increase unless the club can bring in more revenue, and the effort to do that isn’t worthy the return.

 

[Zed 101]

One of two things is happening:

1. Nobody wants to meet the Glazers' valuation. The Glazers aren't willing to compromise, so they're laying the ground for a U-turn on selling.
2. The Glazers are trying to puff up their valuation of Man Utd by claiming they really don't want to sell.

Now, the Glazers don't strike me as particularly savvy businessmen. So, option two is possible. However, one would have to wonder what would be the point. Anyone interested would have spoken to Raine and been able to establish what kind of offer would be accepted. The Glazers don't need to communicate this through the media.

Having seen how FSG has already scaled back it's ambitions for a sale, it's not beyond the pale to think that the Glazers might not sell. If they honestly believe that in a better financial climate they could get more dough, why would they not?

The Glazers show no sign of giving a crap about the infrastructure of the club. So they don't need to spend on it. There are also strategic ways to reduce squad costs and medium to long term losses. Especially if Ten Hag can bring back the revenue boost that comes with success.

Really it's a question of whether they have the patience to scale back on their dividends, management fees, loans and other ways they drain United to feed their wallets.

The issue is that even ignoring infrastructure the club requires a financial injection to invest in players, which then becomes a vicious circle,

need players to achieve success, need success to make a profit, need profit to buy players.... etc.... all the time Chelsea, City, PSG, Newcastle and even Barcelona appear to spend unchecked

this year we made a loss (and last year?) ok so if ETH delivers top 4 + this season that will change things a bit but by enough to remain competitive? hence why the Glazers keen on retaining control whilst happy to use somebody else's money.... I suspect there are even fewer offers for a partial investment than there are offers for a complete sale

 

[goalscholes]

With rising interest rates, I don't think the financials make sense to the Glaziers. They’d have to take too much out the club in dividends to get the same return, which would decrease our future value.

I reckon their leveraged model only really works with lowish interest rates, or significant investment for long term growth. So I’m still betting on a full sale, and that this is a negotiation tactic.

 

[Beachryan]

The thing I don't get it this:
From the parasites point of view, we are a glorified ATM. Each year they get something like $25m to go buy a new yacht or whatever.
If they were to sell, they would get - even at half the valuation - 2.5 BILLION. That's like what fleet of f*cking yachts do I want money.

They're disinterested parasites, surely they should just look to cash out?

 

[Luffy]

Cowards! Why don’t they grow a pear, or even better, two pears, and show us what they’re made of by selling the club for a reasonable price?

 

[Zed 101]

Cowards! Why don’t they grow a pear, or even better, two pears, and show us what they’re made of by selling the club for a reasonable price?

If they had a tree they could also get a partridge

 

[Plant0x84]

If they had a tree they could also get a partridge

They’d probably hire Alan as CEO. He’d be as clueless as the last guy.

 

[#07]

The issue is that even ignoring infrastructure the club requires a financial injection to invest in players, which then becomes a vicious circle,

need players to achieve success, need success to make a profit, need profit to buy players.... etc.... all the time Chelsea, City, PSG, Newcastle and even Barcelona appear to spend unchecked

this year we made a loss (and last year?) ok so if ETH delivers top 4 + this season that will change things a bit but by enough to remain competitive? hence why the Glazers keen on retaining control whilst happy to use somebody else's money.... I suspect there are even fewer offers for a partial investment than there are offers for a complete sale

The Glazers may be thinking that inflation will decrease over the next year, growth will return and selling in 2024 may get them more than if they sell now.

There is also a school of thought that says we could have signed the likes of Caicedo and Alvarez for less than £20m if we'd have gone early enough.

I am not saying that I want them around. I am just saying I can see the logic, if they only want to stick about to take the dividends, in simply rebaselining. Isn't that what Silent Stan did at Arsenal? Yes it's all coming good for them now but he didn't really plan it like this. I bet when he was told Auba and Ozil were off he didn't give a toss about the players and just saw two expensive wages coming off the books.

The Glazers only care about there being enough fat on the carcass to feast on. A cheaper squad that 'competes' for top four would be perfectly acceptable to them. TV revenue is as much a trophy to them as a cup. Yes, cups bring in better sponsorships but you can get by if you just stop paying people £300k a week.

 

[red thru&thru]

@Messier1994 did a good couple of tweets about the latest news. Basically, club will be sold.

 

[Suv666]

Naa they selling. Of course they aren't going to announce they are desperate to sell.
Its called basic negotiation

 

[mctrials23]

Christ, who would have thought the Glazers saw any value in a football club that delivered on the pitch. Thats quite literally been the thing they have put the least thought and effort into since Fergie left.

 

[iHicksy]

Cowards! Why don’t they grow a pear, or even better, two pears, and show us what they’re made of by selling the club for a reasonable price?

I'm not sure what good cultivating fruit will do to instigate an upturn in courage?

 

[devilish]

One of two things is happening:

1. Nobody wants to meet the Glazers' valuation. The Glazers aren't willing to compromise, so they're laying the ground for a U-turn on selling.
2. The Glazers are trying to puff up their valuation of Man Utd by claiming they really don't want to sell.

Now, the Glazers don't strike me as particularly savvy businessmen. So, option two is possible. However, one would have to wonder what would be the point. Anyone interested would have spoken to Raine and been able to establish what kind of offer would be accepted. The Glazers don't need to communicate this through the media.

Having seen how FSG has already scaled back it's ambitions for a sale, it's not beyond the pale to think that the Glazers might not sell. If they honestly believe that in a better financial climate they could get more dough, why would they not?

The Glazers show no sign of giving a crap about the infrastructure of the club. So they don't need to spend on it. There are also strategic ways to reduce squad costs and medium to long term losses. Especially if Ten Hag can bring back the revenue boost that comes with success.

Really it's a question of whether they have the patience to scale back on their dividends, management fees, loans and other ways they drain United to feed their wallets.

Liverpool aren't making losses as we're doing.

 

[thebelfastboy]

It's a nothing tweet/clickbait. I would completely ignore this.

The journalists likely won't get any new info until this stage of the process comes to a close.

If this was to be taken at face value of would be a terrible strategy for the Glazers to take.

For example, imagine the Raine Group are sitting down with interested buyers from ME only to be told, hold on a second lads.... "The Glazers don't want to sell you the club in its entirety right now. They currently value the club at £5b and want to sell you only 20% for £1b now, in the hope that the value increases and then they will consider the possiblity of selling you the remaining 80% in a few years".

"So instead of a purchase now at £5b you want to take £1b of my money now and then sell the rest to me in a few years at an inflated premium"?

I think anyone with an ounce of sense would walkaway at that point and any future chances of a sale to them would be completely torpedoed.

 

[Sviken]

Get these leeches out.

Honestly, I just might as well quit football if somehow these rats manage to hold on. One good thing happens to this football club and they go ahead and ruin it. How much money is enough money? How much more do they need to take before they feel satisfied?

 

[The Irish Connection]

Aye I’ve noticed that myself, it’s funny really because they’re doing the exact thing they accuse us of which is only having a pop at the owners when the teams doing shite, which they are this season. Us on the other hand have been protesting since the day those parasites walked through the door, win, lose or draw it’s still the same. In fact some of our biggest protests have come when we were reigning champions unlike that scouse mob.

Exactly. It’s been annoying me.

 

[#07]

Liverpool aren't making losses as we're doing.

The losses are only a problem from the Glazers' perspective because they prevent them taking money out.

While commercial revenue growth has flatlined in recent years, the main growth in the cost base has been staffing. That's been driven by the first team cost base increasing.

There are obvious ways to cut first team costs in the near to medium term. Should the Glazers be bothered/patient. Even if they're not, if they don't sell now but sell in 2024, from their perspective it's just one more year. I hope they go but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

No one is dumping a billion or two to partner up with the Glazers. What person, fund, entity is going to look at all the hatred of the owners by almost the entire fanbase, and say, hey, I'd love for those football fans to be singing about wishing I would die along side the Glazers. They aren't getting any investment offers, no one wants to be associated with those parasites.

 

[Moston Red]

They’d probably hire Alan as CEO. He’d be as clueless as the last guy.

Don’t want Lord Sugar anywhere near this club!

 

[stw2022]

No one is dumping a billion or two to partner up with the Glazers. What person, fund, entity is going to look at all the hatred of the owners by almost the entire fanbase, and say, hey, I'd love for those football fans to be singing about wishing I would die along side the Glazers. They aren't getting any investment offers, no one wants to be associated with those parasites.

I think you've massively misread every billionaire who ever existed if you think they give two shits about being loved and popular

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I've been skeptical all along about a full sale. The parasites will want as much money as possible and they'll likely be disgusted if they don't get what they're after. If nobody is willing to pay the extortionate price they're asking then they'll likely just sit tight on their cash cow, milking away until the price of rump steak hits the price they want to receive.

 

[Kaos]

Nah I dont see anything but a full sale happening.

Who in their right mind would sign on as minority investors, leaving the Glazers in charge knowing how vehemently unpopular and incompetent they've been in running the club.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

I think you've massively misread every billionaire who ever existed if you think they give two shits about being loved and popular

Depends on the billionaire, and what their business is. But generally I disagree, if it's Amazon/Apple/Ineos buying in, becoming, say a 1/3 owner with the Glazers, they'll immediately have several hundred million people who don't like them and might not use their products, or as much, or running boycotts, or whatnot, against them online. Businesses/Billionaires are all about the money, they are looking at the bottom line, if they think public sentiment might affect their profit, they won't invest.

Even if it's an investment firm, that doesn't necessarily sell a product or whatnot, these funds would be investing to make money, are they sure they would maximize their money, when say United is negotiating their next shirt sponsor, and everyone they go to says, I'm not giving you the money you want, because I know what kind of hate and boycotting we are going to receive being associated with the Glazers. I think it's become a lot more obvious in the last few years how horrible these owners are and how much the fans don't like them. No one will want to become part of that.

 

[devilish]

The losses are only a problem from the Glazers' perspective because they prevent them taking money out.

While commercial revenue growth has flatlined in recent years, the main growth in the cost base has been staffing. That's been driven by the first team cost base increasing.

There are obvious ways to cut first team costs in the near to medium term. Should the Glazers be bothered/patient. Even if they're not, if they don't sell now but sell in 2024, from their perspective it's just one more year. I hope they go but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

Rumours that some of the Glazer family wanted out were in circulation for quite some time. That reached the peak when news came out of the Glazers considering selling a minority stake to Apollo in the summer. Its evident that things went tits up since few months later the Glazers had come out with this sale thing.

Since then alot of things had happened. Internally we've learnt that United has made a 115m loss last season and the Glazers weren't even able to get their beloved dividends. If the mood among the Glazer family was bad then imagine how it had worsen after that. That's not all, more information had leaked since then. For example the stadium will need at least 1B in investment to bring it back to its former glory, United lacks a shirt sponsorship and there's question marks on whether money will be available to strengthen the squad. That's a bid of a problem since the EPL seem to turn into real life football manager with everyone buying left right and centre. Not to forget that the darling of Britain, the Winston Churchill of greater Manchester aka Sir Jim 'the England's rose' Ratcliffe has just placed a bid for the club. Which means that if the Glazers opt for a minority stake then they will be dragged into a 1 to 1 confrontation with the fans again dragging this poor fool buying a minority stake into it.

Meanwhile externally things are quite dire. First of all there's a queue of clubs who are on sale. There's us, Liverpool, Everton and Juventus might be joining the fray as well. The world is heading to a recession with interest rates set to go up the roof. The Glazers relied heavily on low interest rates to service the debt so this will hurt them badly.

Taking that in account all of that why on earth would they manage to attract a buyer on a minority stake now when they couldn't do that few months ago? Why would they willingly open the financial books to any serious buyer out there + face the ire of fans when they could simply sell a minority stake behind the counter? Not only that who is so stupid to buy a minority stake of a sinking ship knowing that these idiots can't manage a raft let alone a football club and that the fans will hate his guts and boycott his products?

I believe that United are on sale and the club will be sold in full. The Glazers can't afford it in the current situation let alone in few months time when interest rates will go up, competition from rival clubs will increase significantly and the fans will go berserk if a full sale doesn't happen. In my opinion this is just posturing. The Glazers need to make themselves look less desperate as there's a real risk that Dubai and the Darling of England, Sir Jim Ratcliffe would end up low balling them.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

aaaand, here comes Sixth Street to save the day for the Glazers.

 

[devilish]

No one is dumping a billion or two to partner up with the Glazers. What person, fund, entity is going to look at all the hatred of the owners by almost the entire fanbase, and say, hey, I'd love for those football fans to be singing about wishing I would die along side the Glazers. They aren't getting any investment offers, no one wants to be associated with those parasites.

Who is going to dump a billion or two to get a minority stake in a sinking ship who is losing money and is leading by incompetent people? Their very customers hate their guts. They might as well wait and get it on the cheap once interest rates makes the Glazer's ownership impossible or alternatively they can find other interested parties, gang with them in a consortium and buy the club themselves.

 

[arthurka]

No one will put real money into this while they are behind the wheel.

 

[Loon]

It would be strange to back an unwanted ownership. Surely better to back a new one?

Who knows? Just want them gone.

 

[Memento28]

There is so much hypocrisy in this post. So after SAF you saw no player cemented a place?

I guess you only look at this season and who is in form? Rashford, Lingard, McTominay.

So if there has been no player since SAF to cement a place, why do we have a 85 year record of having academy players in the squad? SAF retired 10 years ago.

How can you blame the Glazers for fecking up players development? McTominay come through, he isn't good enough, so what you think the Glazers should have given him more talent or what? I dont get it.

Also, if the club have messed up, why haven't any youth player gone onto become a success somewhere else?

Lingard? Even he wasn't good even though he worked hard and scored some goals. Rashford has been very inconsistent. Any other top team would have replaced players like Lingard and Mctominay or made them 3rd or 4th choice players. I saw the players who have been in the academy for the past few years and saw only 1 player who has actually managed to transition and cement a place and I am not talking about any record of 85 years or anything. So 1 player out of 20-30 has managed to cement a place and is actually good enough with the right management, the owners are responsible for how every part of the club works including development of academy players. If the players aren't trained properly doesn't their development get hindered? When the main team players have been below par and the club has spent up to 1 billion on transfers, how can you be so sure that the academy players have been trained properly and it's only the fault of the players? Do you think the owners did this one thing right and failed in everything else?

 

[Plant0x84]

No one will put real money into this while they are behind the wheel.

I thought the wheel was removed and destroyed when Ole left?

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

I'm sure we will hear more in the next couple weeks that will say the complete opposite

 

[Messier1994]

@Messier1994 did a good couple of tweets about the latest news. Basically, club will be sold.

Yeah, I don’t know what Joel and Avram will do, but if the idea is that the club could be worth 10bn if ETH makes us successful again and OT is renovated/rebuilt — it’s not a good business case.

Say it will take 3 years (probably too optimistic). The value increase is 4bn, from 6bn to 10bn. But the clowns have no money, they need at least a 1.5bn investment. So of the 4bn increase, they only get 2.5bn.

If you invest 6bn, getting 8.5bn back after 3 years is not a very good investment. It’s 10% per year. Today you can — easily — get 5% risk free return. I think you must do a pretty awful job to not get a 10% per annum return over 3 years if you invest money on a currently depressed market.

And investing in this club is definitely not risk free. If you only get 7.5bn in 3 years, the Glazers will have had a zero return on a 6bn investment over three years, that’s horrible.

With that said — are Avram and Joel reasonable investors? From what I can tell, they are classic clueless kids who are playing with a late dads money. So who the heck knows what they will do.

 

[arthurka]

I thought the wheel was removed and destroyed when Ole left?

I don't know it isn't on autopilot is it?

 

[George The Best]

Nah I dont see anything but a full sale happening.

Who in their right mind would sign on as minority investors, leaving the Glazers in charge knowing how vehemently unpopular and incompetent they've been in running the club.

Nobody

 

[red thru&thru]

Yeah, I don’t know what Joel and Avram will do, but if the idea is that the club could be worth 10bn if ETH makes us successful again and OT is renovated/rebuilt — it’s not a good business case.

Say it will take 3 years (probably too optimistic). The value increase is 4bn, from 6bn to 10bn. But the clowns have no money, they need at least a 1.5bn investment. So of the 4bn increase, they only get 2.5bn.

If you invest 6bn, getting 8.5bn back after 3 years is not a very good investment. It’s 10% per year. Today you can — easily — get 5% risk free return. I think you must do a pretty awful job to not get a 10% per annum return over 3 years if you invest money on a currently depressed market.

And investing in this club is definitely not risk free. If you only get 7.5bn in 3 years, the Glazers will have had a zero return on a 6bn investment over three years, that’s horrible.

With that said — are Avram and Joel reasonable investors? From what I can tell, they are classic clueless kids who are playing with a late dads money. So who the heck knows what they will do.

Exactly. Whenever a story comes out witht them potentially only looking for investment, that use case just never stacks up.

Anyhow, hopefully we should find out more in the next couple of weeks.

 

[jm99]

I think there's enough incentive in it for them to cling on. Remember their goal wouldn't be dominant success, just to grow the value of the club to sell for more in a few years - even more likely if they can get some investment for a minority stake.

The value of the club is only going to drop from here, if Newcastle get top 4, they'll spend big and you'll never displace them, City are already in that position, arsenal are miles ahead right now, Chelsea are currently shit, but the amount they're spending will eventually pay off, and Liverpool while also shit, scored 92 points last season. The longer we wait the more chance we have of ceasing to be a top 4 club, and become a 5th-6th place competing with spurs, and falling way behind Newcastle and City, there will never be a more valuable time to sell than now, particularly if the stories about us owing so much in transfers and nothing available in the summer is true, we'll fall behind and while we've managed OK falling way behind City, because we've still generally been top 4 contenders the second that stops being true, the value drops