Rich people minimise their taxes and hide their wealth too -- otherwise banks in Singapore, Switzerland etc would never have existed
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Oh god that Simon Stone info would be the stuff of nightmares.
Indeed. They are also in the Paradise Papers(in Malta) with regards to Ineos Investments.
Is it? The Panama Papers show that it's not just "criminals, corrupt politicians and war criminals" who tries to hide their wealth, it's a systemic abuse by banks, wealthy individuals and companies in general. SJR personally has been mentioned in association with banks in Switzerland, which I presume is not just because he is just fond of the country. The move to reduce tax burden that you call it, is estimated to cost UK billions.
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It’s looking as likely as anything else tbh.
You just seem to be fixated on anything negative and keep passing it off as fact.
If you get wound up by such content, then maybe the internet isn't the place for you. Perhaps you should avoid reading altogether and focus on other hobbies because I've posted nothing that should wind anyone up.
I didn't pass off what Stone said as fact. What he said matches the impression I've gained over the last couple of weeks - which is that I think the Glazers will stay.
My taken on that is that the Glazers are putting that out there in the hopes that the bidders up their bids. They know the Qataris want the club and will very likely pay what the Glazers want. If the Glazers are saying we're happy to reject your bid and stay on, my guess is that they hope the bidders will become desperate enough to go higher.
The Glazers know that this is their shot to sell for a big big price. They're not stupid, they're very money orientated and will milk prospective buyers for everything they have.
With the banks and financial sectors in the state they are now, and knowing our run of success can end at any moment, they'll likely cash out as no CL again next season will likely be disastrous for them and the finances. Plus fan riots and protests will very likely put off sponsors too.
Just my opinion though
So are we estimating their personal wealth is in the region of let's say £40b?
Please help me I am very very scared of what Simon Stone said on a podcast
So they can sell tickets to their own business and then further inflate their fake revenue.
You don't wind me up at all, I think you're here on a wind up though - big difference. Every single one of your posts is the same thing
"The Glazers are staying"
"We're doomed"
"Simon Stone said Glazers are staying in the men's room"
As if it's all fact. None of us know what is happening behind the scenes. You could be right, we might be stuck with the Glazers for another decade. But you don't know this. I don't know this.
Again, you're making assumptions and stating stuff as if it's fact. You know as much as all of us about the potential takeover i.e. Sweet F.A.
While that's true, there's only apparently 5 people who actually know what's happening regarding the sale on Manchester United's side, and none of them involve the current management and Arnold. So at the moment I'd say it's all just a 'feeling' rather than someone knowing something.
Or they put 300m in the club's accounts and increase the capacity by installing smaller seats for thousands of pounds.
Yep, an get invoiced by their cousins building company of course.Or they put 300m in the club's accounts and increase the capacity by installing smaller seats for thousands of pounds.
I think the Glazer's first preference was always to stay but they were open to selling all of their shares if they couldn't find a suitable minority investor. We saw this last Summer when they explored a partnership with Apollo Investments but that didn't come to anything in the end.
The moment Elliott came into the picture, a full sale became less likely. They are a serious hedge fund with 50 billion worth of investments around the globe with prior experience in European football (and successful). It has since been briefed that they became more interested in investing after getting a tour of the club and examining the books etc. Highly highly likely that a deal will be done with these people imo.
It's hard to say, but judging by his official and non-official (PP leaks) investments, it's fair to say that the family company is worth "many multiples", as FT put it, than the Western estimate. Let's put it this way - Is a man "only" worth £1,2bn able to spend nearly half of that on a painting and a yacht?
Will the people incessantly pursuing this 'blackpill' line, either as genuine supporters or stealth opps trying to get a rise out of fans here, pledge to take a ban if the Glazers sell (at the very least) control by June?
BarstoolProphet has summarised things pretty well - it is undeniable that HBJ's original source of wealth comes from his time as PM and 'manager' of QIA (the sovereign wealth fund of Qatar). However, it is a decade now since he left any state role and focused on his own private family office fund (Al Mirqab Capital) with private investments - Sheikh Jassim (the one bidding for Man United) himself ran this fund for many years.
My only point of discussion here had been whether Sheikh Jassim (via the family office founded by his father) has the funds to buy our club privately and my research shows that the answer is unequivocally 'YES'.
Once we can all agree on this specific point then perhaps we can move on to discuss the other topics, probably better in the other Qatar specific thread as I struggle to keep up with this megathread with so many different conversations going on.
I don't mind that opinion, but explain why
What is the benefit of Glazers taking minority investment now over a full sale now for 69% of a World record fee?
Why would they dilute their control and future profit from a future sale?
How do you think the partial sale will work, do you think they're going to sell shares and then kindly give the money over to the Club?
Have a different opinion sure, I embrace that. But you keep doing it without giving any genuine argument to your opinion. "They spoke to apollo" isn't it. They've also spoken to potential full buyers which you are ignoring.
I don't think
Why aren't you quoting all the people who've said that Qatar will 'definitely' win and 'the deal is done' etc. and pulling them up?
It's ok for them to share that opinion but not for me to give mine?
Im sure it came out that all of the tickets are notionally sold to people from Abu Dhabi, these people then release their tickets for resale when they can’t attend. Which is almost every game.
I agree.
The issues I see is that if the Glazers take the Elliot option and things go south, the performances on the pitch start stuttering, our position in the table starts falling, less money coming in from no CL, maybe no EL etc. Protests and boycotts affecting sponsorships, what will the Glazers do then? They'll likely go for a full sale but they'll get significantly less money! Prospective buyers might not even bother as the Glazers messed people around this time.
But again we don't really know what's happening
It is difficult to put a precise figure on it - it could be even higher. A few days ago I was thinking something like £25bn but the more you dig into various deals and assets connected to HBJ, the higher the number keeps going.
I dont believe any of them.
I have said for years that the only football journalist I fully trust is Ornstein as his record is incredibly consistent and he doesn't dabble in idle speculation.
Most of them are absolute clowns who think twitter accounts who post nonsense 90% of the time are actually good sources for info.
I'm pretty sure that this forum has created rumours that have ended up at their hands too which is hilarious in itself.
A complete guess on my part, but they agreed a value of the club with the siblings who wanted out, 4/6ths of say 3.5bn. Agreed to pay them their share on that amount. They then seek out bids for the club and inflate the value, and only have to sell 1/3rd of it to raise the funds for the buyout. Avram and Joel then sit on their share for 6-12 months then sell and let the club eat some interest payments to service the new debt. Net result is they get a lot more money.
There are a few flaws with this theory such as the other glazer siblings would have to be a bit stupid, but families don’t always work the same as a business.
They might be in trouble if they do that.
Their whole statement was that the strategic alternatives was to raise capital for Manchester United's future, not the future of 4 greedy Glazer siblings. Where does the money for United come from in your scenario?
Yep wouldn't be surprised if City are up to such shenanigans. They could barely fill the Etihad most games before the last expansion so doesn't make much sense to expand again unless they're up to something.
Firstly, I think there's a slight misconception that the Glazers are in this only for the money. Yeah, it's a big factor. But two of the children (Avram and Joel) are known to have a genuine affinity to the club now and they want to stay. That shouldn't be dismissed lightly and I think it has been underplayed.
Secondly, I think they believe they can grow the club's value even more over the next few years. There has been horrible mismanagement over the last decade and they will know that - they're not stupid. I think they believe that if management is improved over a number of years they can increase the value of the club. They already have gone a long way to correcting this with the appointment of ETH and clearly things are going in the right direction on the field. Elliott are also known to be pretty ruthless, smart and efficient and I'm sure the Glazers think they can help in trimming more of the fat at the club.
In short, I don't think they will cash out because - 1) Two of the Glazers actually want to stay. 2) They believe they are on the right track to improve the management of the club and thus increase its value over the next few years.
Only an extraordinary offer from the Qataris or SJR will change the dynamics imo, and I don't think it's forthcoming.
Okay you lost me at the first paragraph sorry. But now I know why you think what you do and I can internally dismiss it knowing you're that guy who thinks the Glazers aren't in it for the money and that they have an affinity for the club.
Do you see a big fat guy walk into McDonalds and think "oh he must be here for the crayons"?
I'd be willing to believe it could be higher than 40b mate. You just don't know with guys like that.
Now hypothetically if this isn't a state bid, then realistically Jassim and his Dad even at that level of wealth aren't funding this takeover and proposed investment from cash reserves. So either a lot of the funding will be coming from a consortium, borrowing or somewhere else. Or a mix of all 3 along with some of their own money.
And I think this is what a lot of United fans would like to know. Where exactly is the money coming from.
Genuine affinity to a club they have been to see a handful of times which is met with chants about killing the owner and chopping him into pieces.
Has Jimmy bought us yet or is the thread still mostly just justifying that it's ok for a murderous regime to buy us?
Nope. The petrochemical company haven’t bought us yet.
The Glazers are trying to save us from a murderous regime by drowning our club in even more debts with Elliot. Desperate time calls for desperate measures.
I wonder what our quarterly results are? There is no conference call today!
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Well they don't look good... debt up again, mostly from exchange rate shenanigans, but there's a lot of cash flowing out
If you want to take a look for yourself...
Manchester United PLC Reports Second Quarter Fiscal 2023 Results (investis.com)
Manchester United PLC Reports Second Quarter Fiscal 2023 Results (investis.com)
Just a cool increase there, Jesus, debt up to £530m
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