Did i make an excuse anywhere? I’m just telling it like it is from my point of view and experience. I’m not going to claim that i know anything about those 2 industries. I can imagine there’s tons of unprofessionalism, incompetence in the medical field that lead to deaths. I’ve experienced it with my own family. And I’m sure they have insurance and ways to protect themselves from liability in case they get sued. I really don’t know. You obviously have a lot of hatred in your heart. May peace and love be upon you.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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Do the people get off in these cases? Do their colleagues make excuses (or rationalisations) for them? I think maybe you jumped the gun and missed some of his point in attempting to argue with him? I'm joining this back and forth late so maybe I'm missing something?
And this is all well and good but we've seen examples in this thread of cops deescalating situations with armed people, impaired people, etc... I won't lie it irks that people are like 'Well you brought it on yourself'
Really? Is that where we are? And people wonder why there is anger, distrust, and fear....
And you're coming across like a bit of a prick based on your posts...
And yes I read the latest redcafe notice and I took a moment before hitting reply, but it is what is ...
Which is the salient point... but we still have posters in here doing the old 'Well actually..."
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Exactly. To compare this with George Floyd is pretty insulting to Floyd. He had the life slowly squeezed out of him for doing feck all.
This drunk idiot decided to fight cops, steal a weapon and took aim with that weapon.
I think apart from the whole education in policing in the US there is simply also the tension of the enviroment and culture. Every man and his dog can purchase and own a gun and I suspect repeat criminals are more likely to own one which makes the daily life of american police men far more volatile. But i'm not trying to excuse police brutality or unnecssary use of force only that it's probably easier for cops to be a bit more laid back in peacefull countries where the fewest people bear arms.
Understood, but it's clear that this is no means a 'normal' DUI, he was compliant and agreeable with the police and didn't deny having drinks.
At what point is getting an arrest more important than actually protecting the community and helping him find his way home in a safe manner?
It comes across like there was an incentive to arrest this man at all costs, and I'm struggling to see why.
Umm he wasn't going anywhere, they were in a well lit parking lot. You keep using the word 'weapon' in your post, that shows your bias. He stole a taser, so what? You act as if he stole a gun and was about to go on a shooting spree. The cop that shot him had backup, it was not a one on one situation where he could reasonably fear for his life if he got incapacitated by the taser. So what if the guy got away? They bring in the dogs, the helicopters, and they'll get him before daybreak. While the situation was indeed different from Floyd because he offered more resistance, it was still widely condemned by officials and resulted in the immediate sacking of the officer.
I would not call him an idiot. We have seen the deaths of a series of black men and women who without resisting arrest have been beaten and even killed by police officers who were the epitome of calm and professionalism until they pulled the trigger. It is a fear that the average black person in the US lives with. The guy's judgement was impaired, but his fear is not unjustified.
Oh the irony based on the other people you quoted. I’m not jumping any gun. He came in with some weird straw man shit that didn’t even make any sense. Are you actully seriously asking if there are occasions in healthcare where employees get off when fecking up?
Mate. A drink drive is a drink drive. Are you actually suggesting there are circumstances where police should take people home and do nothing when they’ve been caught drink driving ? You also have to take them back to a police station where they provide a breath reading on a proper machine.
Guys come on, like it was wrong to shoot him, that officer shouldn’t be policing on the street ever again but let’s not get ridiculous about things.
Trying to make a thing about the initial arrest is like trying to frame an already guilty man. The evidence is there, he shoots him in the back.
You ever heard of the term 'rhetorical question'?....
So instead of just reactively arguing, think about it. Either they don't get off and they are held to account (but unlike most police). Or they do get off, just like the police often do. Which would be pretty fecked up for the people on the receiving end of their 'mistakes'. We both know which one it is...
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He was ‘in control’ of the vehicle and blew a 0.1 with the limit being 0.08, not to mention having to wake him up. It was straightforward and there was nothing untoward happening here until after the cuffs came out.
The first mistake was probably the green officer who was the shooter going straight for the taser instead of helping his partner subdue the suspect on the ground (could be wrong on that one?), allowing the situation to get out of control.
There was no incentive, it’s just that DUIs are one of the few misdemeanors (not committed in an officers presence) that you must arrest for, along with domestic violence (w/no visible injuries). Even if they wanted to let him go with a warning they weren’t allowed to once they had evidence he was under the influence.
these types of DUIs are actually quite common. It just requires a bit more on the report to articulate why you believe defendant had been driving under the influence. Obviously it’s not a clear-cut DUI, so it might not even get filed by the DA or get plea bargained down to a “wet-reckless” driving charge. But officers are still obligated to go through with the arrest.
See this is the thing, what's with all the 'well actually' then? You agree but then you end up arguing with the people you agree with... Talking about irony and making out I'm an idiot for posing a rhetorical question in a relatively benign post. Things are getting so weird in here.
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A taser might not be considered a deadly weapon, but it is a weapon. I share George Floyd's height, weight and ethnicity, and if I were in America, I would have shared this guy's fear of the police.
It seems that some people expect police officers to have a preternatural calm, even in the most challenging situations. I understand they are humans doing a very tough job.
Is a taser not a weapon?
Is resisting arrest, running away and pointing this taser at a cop not 1000 times more likely to result in worse results than not doing that. Especially a white American cop.
Regardless of race the man upped the ante. Did he deserve what he got, absolutely not. Is the cop a racist? Maybe he could be I don't know but his reaction was indefensible. He should've kept his aim to where it would not be fatal.
This isn't GTA3 you can't aim for the foot to immobilize the suspect. You're taught to aim to kill, by targeting the torso. Plus more chance of missing a foot shot and hitting someone else.
He should have never pulled out his gun. Give chase and tackle like a safety. If the suspect wins the race... You still have his car, and you have his description. Go to his house and wait for him to turn up. Would have been a complete non story at worst and a good episode of Cops at best.
It's a non-lethal weapon. Resisting arrest should not automatically result in a death sentence. I don't know how it is in your country, but in order for a police officer to justify using deadly force against a fleeing suspect, they must have reason to believe the suspect would pose a threat to the public. I don't believe that threshold was met. I believe the cop got scared and lost control of the situation, chose the worst possible decision and resulted in a needless loss of life.
Yeah you’re right, it is getting weird. For some reason people seem to think and it’s the same in the BLM protest thread that you must be extreme when taking a ‘side’. The two things I’m talking about are separate. It isn’t excusing, it isn’t a well actually, it isn’t a but maybe. People should be arrested for drink driving end of story. Officers shouldn’t be shooting people in the back. There’s no need to try and mix the two to ‘get more evidence’ so to speak.
what this guy said
And you actually believe that putting the US police down makes you look any better?
Not to mention that a taser becomes less dangerous with increasing distance between the user and a potential target. Which means that if a guy's running away from you with a taser and you shoot him (non-lethally, if they know how to do that 
) you actually make the guy with the taser more dangerous than just letting the guy put 20ft between you and him.
) you actually make the guy with the taser more dangerous than just letting the guy put 20ft between you and him.This is so important. Cops are surely taught that people are going to be nervous, jumpy, and say or do things that maybe they wouldn't normally do because the adrenaline is pumping during a stop. Cops are trained and so should be able to put people at ease rather than try and make things worse. This cop was on a power trip.
Thanks for proving the point of my last post. Congratulations, you win the internet. You’re the good guy.
The impunity with which they do this shit is jawdropping, especially when the police know they will undoubtedly be caught on video.
This x 1000. Back in the 90’s as a high schooler I was considering a potential career in law enforcement. My local pd had a police explorer program (a co-ed Boy Scouts affiliated program affiliated with specific careers) and I joined up to get a look at the job. In my view now as an adult the stuff I heard and saw while on ride alongs AS A MINOR was despicable . And I do not mean from “criminals”, but from the officers. They viewed everyone, and especially minorities, as the “other”. I met a few officers who were “good” and were great role models, but that was the few. Our adviser (a patrol officer) and sponsor (a sergeant) were two of the few. They both preached the ideals of service and duty. And within two years they were “reassigned” and replaced by an ex marine who preached domination and intimidation. We went from doing community service project to learning takedown techniques and going to the shooting range. I got the hell out. Most of the rest did not. Maybe that was the point.
Are some posters really trying to suggest a taser isn't lethal so it's okay to use one to resist arrest? and that it's fine to drive your car drunk providing you move to the passenger seat and go to sleep afterwards?
This place is weird. The guy is dead. He was shot in the back. That's the issue here incase you missed it. The rest of what happened is clear as day and had he been caught he'd of been going to prison for quite some time I imagine. It doesn't make the shooting right but let's not make things up when it's all on camera to see FFS.
This place is weird. The guy is dead. He was shot in the back. That's the issue here incase you missed it. The rest of what happened is clear as day and had he been caught he'd of been going to prison for quite some time I imagine. It doesn't make the shooting right but let's not make things up when it's all on camera to see FFS.
After seeing countless videos, I just assume that it’s because these idiots know they can get away with it and no one is actually going to charge then. Literally knowing laws don’t apply to them.
And you’re suggesting that there’s no circumstances in which people are given warnings or fines, despite breaking the law.
It was a question about the incentive of arrests, if you think thats ridiculous - that’s fine, but there’s a hint of condescension in your posts which isn’t necessary.
Yeah I agree, it’s clear the guy was startled and probably nervous - things didn’t turn until the possibility of an arrest became real, which is another whole ordeal in the US so I can see why he reacted badly. It’s a terrible situation all around.
Thanks for explaining, makes it a lot easier to understand now.
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Apologise. I guess because it seems so strange from my point of view but obviously it wouldn’t necessarily be from yours. But yeah officers can and do use discretion but you never would in a drink drive situation. Even if it was one of these slightly odd ones. You’re better off eliminating any sort of immediate risk if said driver potentially drove off later.
Has to be this. There definitely is a psychosis that is systemic to these ammosexual MMA dork idiots, but their certainty if not being held to account greases their skids for this behavior.
This is the crux of it, and the point where law and order breaks down, as we have seen.
This is a 13-year-old peoples. Imagine watching your 13-year old child being treated like this?
No doubt the cops on here or sympathisers will come out with the usual bullshit like we don't know the full story, the kid could have been being obstructive etc., etc.
Just burn the fecking whole lot down.
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No doubt the cops on here or sympathisers will come out with the usual bullshit like we don't know the full story, the kid could have been being obstructive etc., etc.
Just burn the fecking whole lot down.
Can’t be too careful with these jaywalkers.
Thanks for bringing some sanity to the discussion.
As someone who thinks the police force in America need a full structural change it is unfortunate to see how clueless some are labelling this as a cop power trip because he "got his ass whooped"
I also cant believe someone on here said they had no proof and should have let him go without arresting him? They should have let him drive back home, drunk?
Like I said earlier its an unfortunate situation. He was drunk and messed up but he messed up. This cop will get a big sum after he sues for unlawful termination.
For those that think that a guy who is sleeping intoxicated in his car is a risk and should be arrested (or even shot dead). How about this, wake him up, breathalyse him, upon finding out he is too drunk to be driving but finding out that he had possibly chosen to sleep it off (as can happen).
How about this:
Have a word with him, write it up and take his keys (or some variations of that),
Sort it out with him once he comes to pick up his keys and is in a more coherent state.
At least one less death by cop.
How about this:
Have a word with him, write it up and take his keys (or some variations of that),
Sort it out with him once he comes to pick up his keys and is in a more coherent state.
At least one less death by cop.
I think he might be lucky to avoid a prison sentence, really can't see that happening.
Which will then hopefully be direct deposited into the bank account of the victim's family.
The callousness of some people on here is shocking. This man is dead. This is not a video game where he is going to respawn somewhere. The nonchalance with which we accept those sworn to protect us gunning civilians down is just...I don't have words for it.
Was the guy drunk and stupid. Yes. Should he have gone to prison for striking the police officer and taking his taser? Yes. Should he have been shot in the back while running away? If your answer is yes I worry about you.
Finally, I think someone made a point up top that "you think a taser is not a lethal weapon?". Remember this next time someone dies from being tased and the outcry is "What a horrible accident, this is a non-lethal tool!".
https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399
Based on data from NY. No difference between races regarding lethal use of force from the police, but Afro-Americans and Hispanics more likely to be put in handcuffs or walled without an arrest being made.
I think there is no actual data to support that American cops are more likely to kill a black man compared to a white man. So, on average I think the police killings are not in themselves racially motivated. What they are, are symptoms of an incompetent/untrained police and a "terror balance" with a high density of weapons in the population due to lax weapon regulations.
What can be said is a symptom of racism, is the use of non-lethal force. Here, there is data to support a claim of racism/racial bias.
Based on data from NY. No difference between races regarding lethal use of force from the police, but Afro-Americans and Hispanics more likely to be put in handcuffs or walled without an arrest being made.
I think there is no actual data to support that American cops are more likely to kill a black man compared to a white man. So, on average I think the police killings are not in themselves racially motivated. What they are, are symptoms of an incompetent/untrained police and a "terror balance" with a high density of weapons in the population due to lax weapon regulations.
What can be said is a symptom of racism, is the use of non-lethal force. Here, there is data to support a claim of racism/racial bias.
I'm sure the suggestion was he'd drove there in that state so he'd already been drink driving no? In any sense he was drunk in charge of the vehicle.
Having seen many people's lives ruined by those who choose to drink drive I don't think it's fair to now criticise the cops for actually doing the right thing.
As I said previously the issue is they shot the guy dead. Let's to start trying to find fault with everything else as for me there's no need to.