Redcy
Full Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2014
- Messages
- 2,614
I think before covid yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were correct though.A team literally sued another team over a dead player last year. I wouldn't hold my breath...
I think before covid yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were correct though.A team literally sued another team over a dead player last year. I wouldn't hold my breath...
Yes because they're locking down, what happens when they try to lift the lockdown though?So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
If they get football back up it will be BCD.Yes because they're locking down, what happens when they try to lift the lockdown though?
2nd wave surely hits and back to square 1.
The problem is if you lift the lockdown the virus will start to spread once more. I don't think normal life will be resuming any time soon.So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy AND spain?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
Wow, I just can't understand your logic. It is because of the lockdown and social distancing that they are reducing, emphasis on reducing, not complete stop of the spread. The minute you start it up, cases will rise again and deaths will follow soon after. How is that hard to comprehend?So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy AND spain?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
Yes, its true. Even the scriptures say so
You genuinely make me feel a bit sick. You're like a dog with a bone. You take exactly what you want from any situation to fit your desperation for football, no matter what else is going on.So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy AND spain?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
Italy have just recorded an increase in deaths.So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy AND spain?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
Death toll just went up in Italy today.So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy AND spain?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
Social distancing will still be in effect for a long time yet, as that is 100% the reason why cases and deaths are reducing. Football is a contact sport and just playing it increases the risk of spreading the infection, behind closed doors or not. Are we going to test every player minutes before they set foot on the pitch to guarantee they don't infect each other? We're not even testing frontline NHS staff in this country. Symptomless footballers aren't going to jump the queue.If they get football back up it will be BCD.
you know what curtail means in this context don’t you?Re-start this season?
Or start a new season?
You probably mean cancel. But im sure we have months and another few 100 pages before that happens.you know what curtail means in this context don’t you?
There's too much logic in you post, I'm afraid it's gone looong passed him.Death toll just went up in Italy today.
Social distancing will still be in effect for a long time yet, as that is 100% the reason why cases and deaths are reducing. Football is a contact sport and just playing it increases the risk of spreading the infection, behind closed doors or not. Are we going to test every player minutes before they set foot on the pitch to guarantee they don't infect each other? We're not even testing frontline NHS staff in this country. Symptomless footballers aren't going to jump the queue.
Would buses full of footballers and club staff travelling up and down the country every weekend be classed as essential travel? No chance.
If football was restarted amidst the virus spreading, when Liverpool win the league, do you think Liverpool fans will observe the title win at home? No chance, they will be celebrating in the streets, there would be no stopping them. Any set of fans would do the same.
They're building makeshift hospitals in fields and arenas because the health service is overwhelmed even after attempts to slow the spread. Potentially exacerbating that over a game of football is mindless. Football starting up again would be deeply irresponsible.
There really is no need for this.You genuinely make me feel a bit sick. You're like a dog with a bone. You take exactly what you want from any situation to fit your desperation for football, no matter what else is going on.
It’s a positive news that cases are going down, no doubt. But they still have a lot of active cases in the country and will need at least a month to begin to slowly normalize things. That is the best case scenario. I do think the leagues will start again but not until July-Aug.So do people now see that cases + deaths are now going down in Italy AND spain?
Let's see what direction La liga and Serie A takes.. if they start their leagues.. we are 100% starting ours back too.
Nah, he started with a (silly) opinion, then didn't want to lose face so stuck with it in the face of all common sense... he's the Cafs Donald Trump.You genuinely make me feel a bit sick. You're like a dog with a bone. You take exactly what you want from any situation to fit your desperation for football, no matter what else is going on.
A foreign league calls it quits: "THIS SETS PRECEDENT"Didn’t bother reading your post to be honest mate, Germany has no relevancy to the horror and nightmare that is developing in England.
The "authorities" can make statements all they want, it's not going to chase away the virus. The longer this thing goes on, which I clearly see to be way beyond the optimistic July so confidently stated here, the more pressure those same authorities will be under to scrap the whole thing.There really is no need for this.
This is Germany earlier today where 17 out of 18 teams are back training and the league is scheduled to restart in early May.
Yes, that does not have any bearing on what happens in the UK which by all accounts has been hit worse. But it is clear evidence of a bit of normality coming back after what has been tough for everyone. It also shows that of course governments and business are working on a plan on how to reopen and reintroduce, well life if you will, and that includes football too. It would be stupid not to. Austria announced today that all shopping centres reopen on 1 May. Do you really think there won't be any games behind closed doors when they allow hundreds of people into the malls? I think it's rather naive to assume there will not be any football for the foreseeable future. To be honest, I would be suprised if any of the major leagues will not be finished and that includes Serie A and Primera Division. The criteria for when it is safe to resume the league will be decided by the experts and this may well be in June or even July. But voiding this season and even the next one which I've seen suggested in this thread has little basis in reality when we look at the statements made by the authorities and footballing bodies.
Bringing up the numbers of people dying and to insinuate those who talk about football coming back lack empathy is really disingenious and a little offensive.
I've seen the same argument on the other side of the debate. Constantly heard that we won't follow what other leagues do, blah blah.A foreign league calls it quits: "THIS SETS PRECEDENT"
A foreign league starts up again: "didn't bother mate, no relevancy"
Of course it is relevant. What do you think England will do when 4 of the 5 other big leagues get finished? Don't think too long on it.
Agreed with most of that, yeah. It was just the "didn't even bother to read your post" part that really stood out to me.I've seen the same argument on the other side of the debate. Constantly heard that we won't follow what other leagues do, blah blah.
Each country will do what it needs to do based on how hard it gets hit once all the dust settles. I honestly don't see Italy and Spain finishing. I can see Germany finishing based on what's already happened, until things change because of reopening stuff so soon.
As for the UK, I guess it depends on how they fair for the rest of April, come end of it, and this virus isn't under control at least then it could be very close to canceling it. I even see a further save face suspend till end of May announcement and then a final decision at the end of May as to whether they will be able to finish it or not.
Ah yeah that's just Judas being Judas it's Ronaldo's Mum Eh you have to worry about.Agreed with most of that, yeah. It was just the "didn't even bother to read your post" part that really stood out to me.
Okay you do make some good points here. I get all of that, I still believe we have lots of time to figure this out and come out with contingency plans for a Late June to Early July start date.Death toll just went up in Italy today.
Social distancing will still be in effect for a long time yet, as that is 100% the reason why cases and deaths are reducing. Football is a contact sport and just playing it increases the risk of spreading the infection, behind closed doors or not. Are we going to test every player minutes before they set foot on the pitch to guarantee they don't infect each other? We're not even testing frontline NHS staff in this country. Symptomless footballers aren't going to jump the queue.
Would buses full of footballers and club staff travelling up and down the country every weekend be classed as essential travel? No chance.
If football was restarted amidst the virus spreading, when Liverpool win the league, do you think Liverpool fans will observe the title win at home? No chance, they will be celebrating in the streets, there would be no stopping them. Any set of fans would do the same.
They're building makeshift hospitals in fields and arenas because the health service is overwhelmed even after attempts to slow the spread. Potentially exacerbating that over a game of football is mindless. Football starting up again would be deeply irresponsible.
Finally someone that sees the light. Thank you for this brilliant post.There really is no need for this.
This is Germany earlier today where 17 out of 18 teams are back training and the league is scheduled to restart in early May.
Yes, that does not have any bearing on what happens in the UK which by all accounts has been hit worse. But it is clear evidence of a bit of normality coming back after what has been tough for everyone. It also shows that of course governments and business are working on a plan on how to reopen and reintroduce, well life if you will, and that includes football too. It would be stupid not to. Austria announced today that all shopping centres reopen on 1 May. Do you really think there won't be any games behind closed doors when they allow hundreds of people into the malls? I think it's rather naive to assume there will not be any football for the foreseeable future. To be honest, I would be suprised if any of the major leagues will not be finished and that includes Serie A and Primera Division. The criteria for when it is safe to resume the league will be decided by the experts and this may well be in June or even July. But voiding this season and even the next one which I've seen suggested in this thread has little basis in reality when we look at the statements made by the authorities and footballing bodies.
Bringing up the numbers of people dying and to insinuate those who talk about football coming back lack empathy is really disingenious and a little offensive.
You didn't bother because it doesn't fit your agenda for having the league cancelled all because you don't want liverpool winning - because let's face it bro that's why you are so against the league starting again.Didn’t bother reading your post to be honest mate, Germany has no relevancy to the horror and nightmare that is developing in England.
Agreed.. July is a strong possible start date. Lots of cases going down is also a great thing.It’s a positive news that cases are going down, no doubt. But they still have a lot of active cases in the country and will need at least a month to begin to slowly normalize things. That is the best case scenario. I do think the leagues will start again but not until July-Aug.
There is no reason to call names on this board because someone has a different opinion than you. I strongly believe the league won't get voided/cancelled. If you choose to be all doom and gloom and hope the league gets scrapped please do not use that against me and call me names.Nah, he started with a (silly) opinion, then didn't want to lose face so stuck with it in the face of all common sense... he's the Cafs Donald Trump.
Now he's just wumming.
It might be a surprise to you but Liverpool is not the most important thing in the world. Health professionals are working really hard every single day with very little rest to save lives and help mitigate this. It is irresponsible to think about resuming sports and putting more people at risk and increasing a problem that is already big enough. If there is no cure or vaccine why risk a second wave after all that effort being put into stopping the first wave?You didn't bother because it doesn't fit your agenda for having the league cancelled all because you don't want liverpool winning - because let's face it bro that's why you are so against the league starting again.
The prime minister is in intensive care due to the virus and here we have people thinking the league will start again anytime soon.A foreign league calls it quits: "THIS SETS PRECEDENT"
A foreign league starts up again: "didn't bother mate, no relevancy"
Of course it is relevant. What do you think England will do when 4 of the 5 other big leagues get finished? Don't think too long on it.
Germany, upto 15th March 2020, had only tested 160,000 people using the PCR test.The "authorities" can make statements all they want, it's not going to chase away the virus. The longer this thing goes on, which I clearly see to be way beyond the optimistic July so confidently stated here, the more pressure those same authorities will be under to scrap the whole thing.
I definitely don't see Italy recovering any time soon to think it would be a good idea to bring football back. Both UK and Spain and battling to ensure the next waves that hit won't be as bad, but once again, no statements going to wish it away, only action, and that action right now is social distancing for as long as possible.
Good on Germany if the way they have handled this allows them to start getting back to normal, but how crushingly sad it will be if it causes another wave. Until a vaccine is out there, people can get reinfected from what's going around, though not proven, more a hope that there will be seasonal immunity once you've recovered from it. And once/if people get reinfected, it doesn't help opening up football again. Sure BCD and all that, but even that will come at a price.
So what will be stupid is prematurely doing something just because we want our normal back. Football or whatever other social norms we've been so accustomed to. Neither do I think the governments have the good of the people as a top priority for wanting to open things up asap.
There is no reason to call names on this board because someone has a different opinion than you. I strongly believe the league won't get voided/cancelled. If you choose to be all doom and gloom and hope the league gets scrapped please do not use that against me and call me names.
All true the problem is we dont think we will even have these test within the next month.Germany, upto 15th March 2020, had only tested 160,000 people using the PCR test.
On the 22nd March 2020, germany recorded just over 23,000 case with 90 deaths, which 10 days later increased to a number just over 500, on this same day, germany went into lockdown.
From the 20/03/20 germany were able to test 160,000 people a day.
PCR testing – involves taking a swap from patients, and matching it to the DNA and RNA evidence of the virus 'a sequence match to the virus'.
A match means you have the virus, the benefit of the PcR, it helps create a picture, in the early stages of the outbreak, helps isolate infected people and contain the outbreak.
PCR testing is also important later in the outbreak because it shows us:
A}How the virus is transmitting through the population (helps to calculate the percentage of people that develop serious complications, revealing how dangerous this virus is for different people - young and old, men and women, people with other health problems).
The only issue with this sort of testing is it can have a higher false negative test rate – i.e. missing the virus even though someone has the infection.
The antibody test - runs on a sample of blood from a patient. If you were to put a sample of the virus directly on the antibody test you will get no result.
The antibody test is not looking for the virus, but evidence of the virus being in the body, and the body reacting to it by producing antibodies to help fight it off.
The antibody IgM is the bodies first response to an infection – normally within 5-10 days of an infection taking hold, peaking at 21 days after the infection.
IgM can be present in the blood within 1 day of symptoms, but that isn’t going to be a reliable test at that stage, as the likely won’t be large amounts of IgM for use to detect, hence 5 day or later is when blood samples are taken.
When tested alone, the PCR test has a 66.7% detection rate within the first week, whilst the antibody test has a lower 38.3% detection rate.
The arguement currently being made is combining the antibody test AND the PCR swab taken from the patient. Then we have a 98.6% detection rate within the first 5.5 days of infection.
The PCR test will help reduce the number of case, but not deaths in relation to those who test postive - most countries are seeing 5% to 10% death rate, from total number of positive cases.
The antibody test, will show your body is in a fight, to neutalize the virus.
Another test is:
Serology testing reveals if you have been exposed to the virus, and your body has developed antibodies. IgM antibodies are present early in infection, IgG antibodies (seroconversion) arise a few days later.
What we need is something to play a supporting act as part of our first line of defence, to give the body a fighting chance,at present the body is trying to put out a fire and at the same time protect those inside, until a vaccine is found.
Thanks for the above.Germany, upto 15th March 2020, had only tested 160,000 people using the PCR test.
On the 22nd March 2020, germany recorded just over 23,000 case with 90 deaths, which 10 days later increased to a number just over 500, on this same day, germany went into lockdown.
From the 20/03/20 germany were able to test 160,000 people a day.
PCR testing – involves taking a swap from patients, and matching it to the DNA and RNA evidence of the virus 'a sequence match to the virus'.
A match means you have the virus, the benefit of the PcR, it helps create a picture, in the early stages of the outbreak, helps isolate infected people and contain the outbreak.
PCR testing is also important later in the outbreak because it shows us:
A}How the virus is transmitting through the population (helps to calculate the percentage of people that develop serious complications, revealing how dangerous this virus is for different people - young and old, men and women, people with other health problems).
The only issue with this sort of testing is it can have a higher false negative test rate – i.e. missing the virus even though someone has the infection.
The antibody test - runs on a sample of blood from a patient. If you were to put a sample of the virus directly on the antibody test you will get no result.
The antibody test is not looking for the virus, but evidence of the virus being in the body, and the body reacting to it by producing antibodies to help fight it off.
The antibody IgM is the bodies first response to an infection – normally within 5-10 days of an infection taking hold, peaking at 21 days after the infection.
IgM can be present in the blood within 1 day of symptoms, but that isn’t going to be a reliable test at that stage, as the likely won’t be large amounts of IgM for use to detect, hence 5 day or later is when blood samples are taken.
When tested alone, the PCR test has a 66.7% detection rate within the first week, whilst the antibody test has a lower 38.3% detection rate.
The arguement currently being made is combining the antibody test AND the PCR swab taken from the patient. Then we have a 98.6% detection rate within the first 5.5 days of infection.
The PCR test will help reduce the number of case, but not deaths in relation to those who test postive - most countries are seeing 5% to 10% death rate, from total number of positive cases.
The antibody test, will show your body is in a fight, to neutalize the virus.
Another test is:
Serology testing reveals if you have been exposed to the virus, and your body has developed antibodies. IgM antibodies are present early in infection, IgG antibodies (seroconversion) arise a few days later.
What we need is something to play a supporting act as part of our first line of defence, to give the body a fighting chance,at present the body is trying to put out a fire and at the same time protect those inside, until a vaccine is found.
Very good post. £750m is really not that much and will be far cheaper to lose/risk than any other option. I'm addition some deal will be reached with broadcasters who won't want to ruin their relationship with the PL so it will be in everyone's best interests to muddle through this.I reckon that proposed £750m will end up being the cheapest and most practical option as it would be open to negotiation and could result in the lifting of the 3pm rules to ensure that TV companies have more access to future matches per season.
There's no way Sky, BT and co will want to kill the goose that lays their golden eggs. At a time when players are already taking 30% pay cuts, staff are being furloughed and companies all across the UK are suffering from the economical impact, I'm not sure how much grounds the broadcasters would have to demand that they're compensated for lost business due to Covid-19.
The TV companies could then be putting next season in jeopardy. Lets say that they got everyone fit for the end of July to complete the season by September.
How much of a break do you then give the players?
Do they have a transfer window when promotion/relegation/european spots have been confirmed?
Will there be any point in confirming European spots this season if there is no European football?
With the qualifications roll over to the next season and if so what happens to next seasons qualifiers?
If they restart the season towards the end of September what happens with regards to the Euros? If they start in June and next season finishes a month late the players will have no time for a break and no time for international training.
Do they reduce the schedule and cancel one of or both of the cup competitions? Will they be sued by the broadcasters for that? What will happen to the lower league clubs that rely on the TV money from those cups?
If you void this season and restart it whenever next season starts, all those questions are resolved. Inevitably you will have lawsuits and compensation owed, just as you would in this scenario but the key thing is that practically and logistically there is no complications. Total reset, everyone knows exactly the position they were in last season and they start from there again.
I absolutely agree with this part, it's the most important statistic. But what will keep that statistic leveled off and hopefully consistently reducing is social distancing and everyone acting as if they have the virus, to stop the spread. As soon as we loosen the restrictions, it goes back up. The UK still isn't fully appreciating the severity of the issue, and the weekend was littered with picnics, bbqs and sunbathing in public spaces. Italy and Spain are observing much stricter measures than we are.Okay you do make some good points here. I get all of that, I still believe we have lots of time to figure this out and come out with contingency plans for a Late June to Early July start date.
Also death rate did go up but the cases dropped. In the long term it's all about the cases that will matter.
I respect your opinion, and it's a real possibility that you're right, but it's not laughable at all to think that the league will continue. "Several months" is a long period - you hadn't even heard of "corona" 4 months ago, so who are you (or we all, to be fair) to claim that we know how the world will look like in 2 or 3 months time? That is a really long period and a lot could change in that time. The world cannot stop for such a long period, which is why we're already seeing plans of a re-start in Germany, Denmark, Austria, ... The UK has it worse right now, but "several months" is a long period. We just don't know. I 100% agree that football and all of sports is far down on the list of priorities, but it's not laughable at all.Very good post. £750m is really not that much and will be far cheaper to lose/risk than any other option. I'm addition some deal will be reached with broadcasters who won't want to ruin their relationship with the PL so it will be in everyone's best interests to muddle through this.
The actual thought of continuing with this league in several months is laughable.
226. Sad.Germany had a jump in deaths announced today and from the live data others do in Germany it's another increase of ~200 that will be announced by RKI tomorrow. I wouldn't be too sure on Germany right now or what will happen when they ease up and cases rise.
I just find the idea there will be any appetite to continue with this at the risk of ruining a new season silly. A pre season will be needed, which will add even more time to matters, and then there's a huge list of problems that will arise involving contracts, the transfer window and everything else.I respect your opinion, and it's a real possibility that you're right, but it's not laughable at all to think that the league will continue. "Several months" is a long period - you hadn't even heard of "corona" 4 months ago, so who are you (or we all, to be fair) to claim that we know how the world will look like in 2 or 3 months time? That is a really long period and a lot could change in that time. The world cannot stop for such a long period, which is why we're already seeing plans of a re-start in Germany, Denmark, Austria, ... The UK has it worse right now, but "several months" is a long period. We just don't know. I 100% agree that football and all of sports is far down on the list of priorities, but it's not laughable at all.
And it wont even be 700m in the end. It will be a pro rata amount which will then be negotiated down and divided by 20 Clubs. Per club it will be a drop in the Ocean in the bigger picture of things.I just find the idea there will be any appetite to continue with this at the risk of ruining a new season silly. A pre season will be needed, which will add even more time to matters, and then there's a huge list of problems that will arise involving contracts, the transfer window and everything else.
It seems obvious there should be a plan devised and cut off point (whatever publicised I'm certain there will be one) so clubs can plan ahead with some degree of certainty. Simply rolling this on and on and on would be ridiculous especially if it's just because of £700m which in the grander scheme of things is bugger all.