He does come across as 14 year old from his comments tbf, so it is not fair to expect him to know about that.
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Cristiano Ronaldo
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He does come across as 14 year old from his comments tbf, so it is not fair to expect him to know about that.
Of course he's allowed to be biased, but I was just wondering if he thinks that he's being objective by placing Ronaldo outside the top 20 and having a list of Barcelona greats in the top 3.
Far superior in strength? No. Not with a ball at his foot. Maybe in an arm wrestle.
Far superior in movement? No. His movements are much more in straight lines, and reliant on outpacing his opposite number.
Far superior in hunger? No. Not really any proof at all. It's not really tangible.
Far superior in will to win? Sounds pretty similar to hunger.
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Why should the hard work, or lack of it, of a player even come in to it though? And more to the point, how do we even know how hard one player has worked compared to another? We don't know anything about it really other than platitudes given by employers to their most powerful and skilled players (which, as you pointed out, Ronaldo is).
Football is entertainment, and just like in art/music most people are inclined to be more impressed by sheer natural talent in full flow than they are endeavour - otherwise Darren Fletcher would be winning the ballon d'or, as I imagine he's put in more 'sheer hard work' in his recovery than Ronaldo could even imagine.
In an increasingly automated world ruled by rigid technology, more plastic than organic - the 'super proficient', wax work looking, self celebrating 'machine' that is Ronaldo is gonna leave some people cold.
Messi plays with a freedom and fluidity that, at his best, is actually cathartic to watch - the 'little guy' running free and mocking the 'organisation' of the defence - it offers people a feeling of exhilaration. And it's more aesthetically pleasing while at the same time being more productive, a feat that is really the pinnacle of any kind of entertainment.
I must have misread that post when I said I agreed with it, not a chance he's far superior in all of those areas.
I agree. Actually, Messi even jumps higher than Ronaldo. If you take a closer look, he is, in fact, taller than Ronaldo.
Come on, comparing Messi and Ronaldo in terms of power, top speed, covered distance, jumping, physical presence in the box, grit, stamina, etc. is pointless, because there is only one winner.
Well you're now bringing up completely new criteria. The ones you initially put forward (strength, movement, hunger, will to win) - Ronaldo isn't far superior to Messi.
I don't deny he can jump higher and run faster.
Thing is, with all those attributes, you could put a football shirt on Usain Bolt and he'd win out over Ronaldo - doesn't mean he can even play football though.
Again, within the perimeter of those given attributes, Maradona would be inferior to most modern day wingers.
My point was that physically and mentally Ronaldo is superior to Messi and thus sort of compensates his far inferior technique.
It is not me who says Ronaldo is sheer hard work, it is the way of haters try to paint it to undermine his talent. He is supreme combination of both talent and hard work and if it is more hard work as some try to say, then it is more incredible making him best ever.
As for your last and 2nd last paragraph, what you define as 'exhilarating, and aesthetically pleasing is not same for everyone, so no matter how much drum Ronaldo haters bang on this point, it means feck all to others. I fell asleep lot of times watching Barca even during their prime years. That doesn't mean I underestimate that kind of football or say it is 'just hard work.' It was incredibly tough to play and combination of skill and effort at topmost level but I am more fan of end-to-end and counter-attacking football, so as a neutral didn't find any fun in watching them. So, before Messi fanbois go on about these 'qualitative & subjective' factors which they want to ram down everyone's throat and tell how Messi is great because of that, they will do well to understand that everyone has got different taste of football and there is no one way of playing. All that will matter is achievements and if somebody like Ronaldo is breaking all records in the way by being 'super proficient', history will view him as one of the all time greats when dust settles, no matter what those who don't like him say. That's why my last line which you bolded. One needs to be super proficient at something to understand what it takes. Obviously very few in world do.
Always annoys me when people use physicality to portray one footballer over another. Here's one for the Americans among us... LeBron is faster than Jordan. He's bigger than Jordan. He's stronger than Jordan. Is he better than Jordan?
Even if I prefer to watch Messi than Ronaldo, in the end, what is more aesthetic or not is a matter of personal choice.
True that but Ronaldo is actually great on the ball and an incredibly complete attacker. I haven't seen such a complete (European) forward: two-footed, great header of the ball, great speed, great stamina, great movement, great performer of set pieces, great first touch, good tricks, dribble, etc. Van Basten was more elegant and arguably better to watch but he pales in comparison, albeit being one of my football heroes.
I see where you're coming from, though I disagree with a few bits (such as movement and will to win.)
Ronaldo is obviously a superior athlete, which allows to do things Messi can't. meanwhile Messi can do things Ronaldo can't.
Are we now arguing that Ronaldo is a better player than Messi? Lol
Ronaldo had a better year, Messi is a better player. At this rate, not by much though. If Ronaldo continues to have better years, then there is a legitimate debate on who's the better player. It's a bit idiotic when posters say one is miles better than other. Why can't y'all enjoy both these guys playing football? It's not like they play for our direct rivals yet
Ronaldo had a better year, Messi is a better player. At this rate, not by much though. If Ronaldo continues to have better years, then there is a legitimate debate on who's the better player. It's a bit idiotic when posters say one is miles better than other. Why can't y'all enjoy both these guys playing football? It's not like they play for our direct rivals yet
He's not really that complete though. If you combined the best parts of Cristiano Ronaldo over the years then sure, but the current version isn't a great dribbler, is a terrible free kick taker, has declined at long range shots. On the other hand the 2006/07 version was a brilliant dribbler, more direct runner, probably better at set pieces (maybe that was a year or two later) and long shots...
There's no doubt that he's at his very best right now, and he's fantastic player, but complete? I don't think so. He isn't anything special at passing either, can't dictate play, hasn't shown that he can play with his back to goal. So yeah...outstanding player but not complete. Not that it matters, being a "complete" player isn't even important so I don't know why it's always brought up in these discussions.
Fully agree here. For the record, I still think that Messi at his peak is better than Ronaldo at his peak. Personally, I'd rather watch Messi than Ronaldo (besides I support Barca in La Liga) but it seems to me that sometimes Ronaldo doesn't get enough credit for his unique qualities because Messi's got far better skills on the ball.
I completely agree that it's subjective, my post was really to explain/remind why, to lots of people, Messi is the preferred player.
I highlighted the 'Ronaldo haters' and 'Messi fanbois' bit though as I disagree with these terms. Preferring Messi doesn't mean that one 'hates' Ronaldo. Likewise it's dismissive to refer to those who differ in opinion with pejorative terms like 'fanboi' in order to suggest a lack of legitimacy in their opinion - I imagine using your own yardstick you'd be a 'Ronaldo fanboi' - of course, you're not - you're just another footy fan who prefers Ron over Leo, just as those in the other camp are footy fans who prefer Leo over Ron.
I totally agree. I was just explaining one side of it - the side that's subjectively true for me.
Tell me a single European forward who was/is as complete as Ronaldo. For instance, van Basten wasn't exactly two-footed and fast and he is widely regarded as the most complete striker in the history of (modern) European football.
Agree that preferring Messi doesn't mean hating Ronaldo. I was referring to many posters here who do however and they display their hate very clearly through their posts. As long as people maintain that in their opinion Messi is best for so and so reasons, it is totally fair. People trying to pass it as a fact which it isn't and then trying too hard to downplay Ronaldo gets cringeworthy though and hence such references.
Well, again I don't think it's that important. Henry anyway, not as good as Cristiano Ronaldo but more complete.
I think we reach levels of hyperbole we've only seen when discussing Cristiano Ronaldo when we read that he's a "great performer of set pieces". His free kick's are terrible. All that's missing is "great passer" to complete the set.
I would say that most of the attributes you list there could easily be describing somebody like Ibrahimovic or van Basten. Of course Ronaldo is better than both, don't get me wrong, but it's not like these are exclusive to him and that's why he's a special player or anything like that.
When you talk about Ronaldo you bring up things like his strength and how that notches him above Messi when comparing who's the more complete yet Ronaldo rarely ever uses his strength in the traditional sense to his advantage. Brush him and he'll fall over. Run alongside Messi and it's actually harder to take the ball off him or nudge him off it (though that's more to do with his low centre of gravity than outright strength) but it's something that is hardly ever noted.
Two-footedness? No doubt Ronaldo is much more proficient with his left foot than Messi is with his right yet (according to a graphic of their stats, could be wrong) Messi scored 15 goals in 2014 with his right foot and Ronaldo scored 8 with his left. Ronaldo also managed two more goals with his head than Messi, another attribute we hear Ronaldo excels in (heading).
I think to discuss who is hungrier is just nonsense, man.
Good shout but Henry was a terrible header of the ball and less two-footed than Ronaldo. Mentally, he was a bit of a liability in finals, IIRC.
What is hyperbolic? Zlatan isn't particularly fast and two-footed and cannot head the ball to save his life (Well, that's exaggeration, obviously, but you get the point.) Who was/is as complete as Ronaldo in European football? Zlatan clearly isn't.
When I say that Messi is much better on the ball than Ronaldo I have in mind also his drbbling skills which include his balance.
Are you going to debate Ronaldo's superiority in the air?
I don't deny that Ronaldo is better in the air but what I do ask is how relevant it is when the statistics show that he scored only 2 more goals with his head. There's guys a lot smaller than Ronaldo who are far better in the air than he is. I don't look at Ronaldo and think he's an aerial monster (that goal against Roma for United was ridiculous though).
Zlatan's decent with his left peg imo. Point is though, he's technically outstanding while being a big lump of a boy with great physicality. It's not something exclusive to Ronaldo.
Well sure, but Cristiano himself has weaknesses too. Some people (not saying that you're one of them) seem to define complete as everything Cristiano Ronaldo is good at and nothing he's weak at.
Personally, I think he's not good enough at holding up the ball and bringing team-mates in the game. This is strange because he has the ability to do it. For me, that's his major weakness, more so than his range of passing which isn't great. Maybe he's afraid of dangerous challenges and getting injured, dunno about that.
Zlatan is better in some respects, particularly at manipulating the ball in tight spaces, I agree with that.
Ronaldo's son likes them both.
It's easy.
It's easy.
Ronnie's son just wanted to play with the other little kid.
Well the team winning the trophies isn't complainingI think it's the self-love that drives him to do better
Agreed.
I find our views on this and the VG pressers/general demeanour the same. I am going to start stealing stuff from your posts on those topics.
Not sure whether can Ronaldo perform the role of a center forward at Van Basten's level. Van persie is more similar to him in aspect but a poorer version even at his peak. Likewise, you can't say the same for Van Basten when compared to Ronaldo at his position because he certainly wasn't as quick and mobile.
One is for certain is that Ronaldo is more consistent will ensure you points throughout the season. Van Basten was quite a glass man compared to Ronaldo who is indestructible.
One is for certain is that Ronaldo is more consistent will ensure you points throughout the season. Van Basten was quite a glass man compared to Ronaldo who is indestructible.
Some idiots are arguing, it's beyond reasonable doubt that Ronaldo is currently the better player.
He just retained the Ballon Dor by a landslide.
Messi looks terrified. Like he's scared Ronaldo has just told his son to go up and punch him in the dick.
Can't understand anything in the video.
Who is a harder working athlete than the two I mentioned?
I am getting tired of Messi vs Ronaldo really. At the end of day, both have won a lot of trophies/awards, scored insane amount of goals, broke many all time records and has been unmatched by anyone over past decade or so.
If people really want to judge who is better, then Messi has been better player for 4 times while Ronaldo has been better 3 times. As simple as that.
If people really want to judge who is better, then Messi has been better player for 4 times while Ronaldo has been better 3 times. As simple as that.
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Floyd Mayweather Jr., and if people think I'm joking about that one because of all those photos he puts up of him living the life, he is one of the most dedicated sportsmen you will read about.
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