Danny Rose | Rose: "I will play up North before I retire"

[LilyWhiteSpur]

From a personal perspective I understand that fully. I think what has ignited this thread is a certain poster's refusal to even consider the possibility that this might lead to problems for Spurs to hang on to their best players, particularly if another season goes by without any silverware. Because of that the argument becomes polarised and perhaps gives the impression that we United fans care about the situation at Spurs more than we actually do.

Spurs are just a club like any other, and in a way are victims of their own relative success in recent seasons. If they don't pay the market rate that their league position demands, and especially if they aren't actually winning any trophies, then their top players will start to consider their positions...as evidenced by the Danny Rose debacle. It is exactly the same for any club outside of the top few biggest/richest clubs in the world - and certainly not something I take any pleasure in. The reason that this thread is 24 pages long is because one of your fans refuses to accept that this could even be a possibility, and it's like debating with a brick wall.

I understand that and glad we both see it the same way. I have no problems saying some players will always want to earn more or some players will always want that move to an elite club. That's just the position we are in right now. Having said that I don't think that this mass exodus is going to happen over 2 transfer windows. We seen Arsenal have the same problems so I don't expect us to be any different.

I will say though that a player that has just signed a new contract should be expected to honour it for at least a a couple of seasons.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Ha ha, you're so proud of this aren't you?! Every player has a price, and regardless of what you believe if United really wanted a Spurs player, and the player wanted the move too then it would happen...albeit it at a huge price to compensate Spurs for selling to a rival.

Believe it if you wish, but the post-Berbatov years say otherwise.

And let's take this summer for instance. It's clear that United were after Dier, prior to settling for Matic. And I was told many times by United fans that he was allegedly keen to move - higher wages, blah blah. So what's your excuse as to why you didn't get him?

 

[MuFc_1992]

Most players have dreams of playing for Real Madrid, Manchester United etc. whereas Rose dreams of playing in a certain geographical location.

 

[GlastonSpur]

From a personal perspective I understand that fully. I think what has ignited this thread is a certain poster's refusal to even consider the possibility that this might lead to problems for Spurs to hang on to their best players, particularly if another season goes by without any silverware. Because of that the argument becomes polarised and perhaps gives the impression that we United fans care about the situation at Spurs more than we actually do.

Spurs are just a club like any other, and in a way are victims of their own relative success in recent seasons. If they don't pay the market rate that their league position demands, and especially if they aren't actually winning any trophies, then their top players will start to consider their positions...as evidenced by the Danny Rose debacle. It is exactly the same for any club outside of the top few biggest/richest clubs in the world - and certainly not something I take any pleasure in. The reason that this thread is 24 pages long is because one of your fans refuses to accept that this could even be a possibility, and it's like debating with a brick wall.

Simply not true. I have agreed many times that Spurs need soon to be able to pay higher wages and to start winning trophies. What I don't agree with are the dire predictions of imminent doom that some United and some other opposition fans have been trotting out each summer for some while now.

 

[Random Task]

No of course, its not rude.

What I would say to that is that there is nothing we can do about it really. We have the 6th highest wage bill, the 6th highest turnover. In terms of world football, again we have approx 11th-13th highest turnover and 12th or so highest wage bill.

We pay what we can relative to what we earn.

Unless we get bought out by a rich man who wants to pump his own money into the club, we can no more pay Kane, Alli, Eriksen 300k/ week and Rose and Alderweirald 150/200k a week than can West Ham or Stoke. We'd all fold, even if we do earn more than those clubs. Its 'unfortunate' in a sense that, unlike those clubs, we have, through good management, managed to assemble a starting eleven all of whom could conceivably be earning 100K plus at other clubs.

Again, its not us being stingy. I also live within my means and don't go out trying to get a mortgage for 30 million pound penthouse or a super yacht (unfortunately).

Incidentally, I found this rather funny Poch quote from the press conference when he was talking (and rather adeptly imo) defusing the whole situation:

"If you remember, five years ago, people said ‘who is Pochettino?’. I’m sure they used Google or Yahoo to find out.

But the problem with that was that all they saw straight away was the penalty against Michael Owen. That situation killed me"

Which made me chuckle I have to say.

Poch has worked miracles with the Spurs players he has both purchased and brought through the youth system, that is an undeniable fact. Thing is, for Spurs to remain competitive at the pinnacle of English football - where they are currently sitting pretty - their transfer strategy must change. Unearthing those hidden gems is grteat when it works out, but if we're being honest it's an entirely unreliable approach to player turnover. I just don't see how such a strategy can pay off long term, last seasons recruits have turned out to be less than desirable - Wanyama aside - and since Spurs have been so quiet in the transfer market this summer, I feel it's safe to assume those "diamonds in the rough" simply are not available.

I'm not so sure that Spurs have no funds to play with, simply Levy is too greedy to spend large. Just my opnion.

 

[AdNani]

Believe it if you wish, but the post-Berbatov years say otherwise.

And let's take this summer for instance. It's clear that United were after Dier, prior to settling for Matic. And I was told many times by United fans that he was allegedly keen to move - higher wages, blah blah. So what's your excuse as to why you didn't get him?

Because Levy asked for ridiculous money?

 

[GlastonSpur]

Because Levy asked for ridiculous money?

I was told, by the poster concerned, that only two things mattered: 1) That United want the player and 2) that the player wants to leave for United.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Believe it if you wish, but the post-Berbatov years say otherwise.

How many Spurs players have we really tried to sign in that time though?

And let's take this summer for instance. It's clear that United were after Dier, prior to settling for Matic. And I was told many times by United fans that he was allegedly keen to move - higher wages, blah blah. So what's your excuse as to why you didn't get him?

I think it's quite clear that we were looking at Matic and Dier, and on balance decided to go for Matic. If we had genuinely believed that Dier was the missing piece of the jigsaw and was worth paying well over the odds for then we would have tried a bit harder. As it was United's interest didn't seem to go beyond an enquiry as to price - there was literally nothing more than that reported if my memory serves. obviously it suits you to represent it as Spurs standing strong and rebuffing any United advances, but if we'd come in with a crazy offer and Dier had started to agitate for a move then who knows what might have happened.

I think your stance will work for some players (such as a fairly unremarkable defensive minded player like Dier) but with the likes of Alli and Kane - players that United or City may be prepared to break transfer records to sign it will be a lot more complicated than you seem to think.

 

[GlastonSpur]

How many Spurs players have we really tried to sign in that time though?



I think it's quite clear that we were looking at Matic and Dier, and on balance decided to go for Matic. If we had genuinely believed that Dier was the missing piece of the jigsaw and was worth paying well over the odds for then we would have tried a bit harder. As it was United's interest didn't seem to go beyond an enquiry as to price - there was literally nothing more than that reported if my memory serves. obviously it suits you to represent it as Spurs standing strong and rebuffing any United advances, but if we'd come in with a crazy offer and Dier had started to agitate for a move then who knows what might have happened.

I think your stance will work for some players (such as a fairly unremarkable defensive minded player like Dier) but with the likes of Alli and Kane - players that United or City may be prepared to break transfer records to sign it will be a lot more complicated than you seem to think.

Lol ... it's not as if you had much choice.

PS. You didn't try for Bale or Modric? Of course you did.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Poch has worked miracles with the Spurs players he has both purchased and brought through the youth system, that is an undeniable fact. Thing is, for Spurs to remain competitive at the pinnacle of English football - where they are currently sitting pretty - their transfer strategy must change. Unearthing those hidden gems is grteat when it works out, but if we're being honest it's an entirely unreliable approach to player turnover. I just don't see how such a strategy can pay off long term, last seasons recruits have turned out to be less than desirable - Wanyama aside - and since Spurs have been so quiet in the transfer market this summer, I feel it's safe to assume those "diamonds in the rough" simply are not available.

I'm not so sure that Spurs have no funds to play with, simply Levy is too greedy to spend large. Just my opnion.

We have what we make from transfers, and like I said that will be invested at least most of it this summer.

 

[cyberman]

Lol ... it's not as if you had much choice.

PS. You didn't try for Bale or Modric? Of course you did.

We wanted Matic since last summer
Dier was just another Morata

 

[Random Task]

I'm really having difficulty understanding what exactly it is your getting at? We can't afford to pay the wages that United, City et all pay, why is that so hard to understand? It's not even up for discussion.

You then say something else that is a bit strange in that we should only be signing established stars, we have never done that we sign who we feel can develop into a better player than we initially bought. You then say that the players we have should simply move on because they could get more elsewhere, when most of our players back when we signed them you would probably say "they would never be good enough for United"? By the way we haven't had 2 second place finishes.

We have had Walker sold due to wanting more money and the club let him go for a price. Then apparently Dier was mad for a move to United, no transfer request, no public statement, nothing. Now Rose making a statement to the Sun, not saying he wanted a move right now, then making an apology afterwards.

When a player signs for Tottenham they know there are bigger clubs, and some may see us as a stepping stone. If that's the case don't sign a 5 year contract, don't embarrass yourself when your asked to honour it. That's the biggest problem these days in football. I have no problem with a player saying "I only want a 2-3 year deal" there wage and bonuses would reflect it.

I honestly don't get the hate on here for how we conduct ourselves, why we don't really get a pay on the back saying as a club your doing well with what you have. It's the tribalistic bullshit of it, "I can't wait to see them ripped apart" that's quite strange for me. It's not like we're gonna come anywhere near the size of United for the foreseeable future. Instead of wanting another team to die out would you not rather see your own club improve? Because honestly the oil clubs aren't going anywhere. Honestly looking forward to this next season and we can see where all the clubs are.

If you can't piss with the big spenders then you will likely get left behind. Say whatever you like, that is simple logic. You cannot hope to sustain a long term, title challenging football team unless you are prepared to shell out big money in order to upgrade it, staying in line with those other clubs who not only harbor similar ambitions, but have the necessary funds available to achieve that goal. Unlike Spurs. This is simply the way it is in the modern game, are you denying this?

Your last paragraph is childish, mate. Hate is a ridiculously strong word to use in a debate involving United and Spurs fans. And don't invent false quotes, I have never said "I cant wait for them to be ripped apart" you just decided to add that little gem in order to bolster your argument somewhat, whatever that may be.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

How many Spurs players have we really tried to sign in that time though?

I think it's quite clear that we were looking at Matic and Dier, and on balance decided to go for Matic. If we had genuinely believed that Dier was the missing piece of the jigsaw and was worth paying well over the odds for then we would have tried a bit harder. As it was United's interest didn't seem to go beyond an enquiry as to price - there was literally nothing more than that reported if my memory serves. obviously it suits you to represent it as Spurs standing strong and rebuffing any United advances, but if we'd come in with a crazy offer and Dier had started to agitate for a move then who knows what might have happened.

I think your stance will work for some players (such as a fairly unremarkable defensive minded player like Dier) but with the likes of Alli and Kane - players that United or City may be prepared to break transfer records to sign it will be a lot more complicated than you seem to think.

You mention Kane, that's intresting, both Chelsea and United and reportedly City were all looking for a goal scoring forward. Why was there no one single "record" bid for him. Now that you and Chelsea have tournament man I very much doubt either will come in for Kane for the foreseeable future, barring a flop of course. As for Ali, he has time and I don't think he's in any rush. It's funny how our most important player in Eriksen is never mentioned by domestic fans.

 

[GlastonSpur]

We wanted Matic since last summer
Dier was just another Morata

Of course, I knew there had to be a simple explanation. Nothing to do with United's impotence when it comes to Spurs, obviously.

And clearly you preferred Lukaku to Kane. Thanks for clearing things up now. I understand now.

 

[cyberman]

Of course, I knew there had to be a simple explanation. Nothing to do with United's impotence when it comes to Spurs, obviously.

Or simple facts? He wanted to come last year but Chelsea wanted him for one more year.
This transfer has been 12 months in the making. It's simple really

 

[GlastonSpur]

Or simple facts? He wanted to come last year but Chelsea wanted him for one more year.
This transfer has been 12 months in the making. It's simple really

Of course. And Lukaku rather than Kane?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

If you can't piss with the big spenders then you will likely get left behind. Say whatever you like, that is simple logic. You cannot hope to sustain a long term, title challenging football team unless you are prepared to shell out big money in order to upgrade it, staying in line with those other clubs who not only harbor similar ambitions, but have the necessary funds available to achieve that goal. Unlike Spurs. This is simply the way it is in the modern game, are you denying this?

Your last paragraph is childish, mate. Hate is a ridiculously strong word to use in a debate involving United and Spurs fans. And don't invent false quotes, I have never said "I cant wait for them to be ripped apart" you just decided to add that little gem in order to bolster your argument somewhat, whatever that may be.

I'm not saying we're going to be winning league titles, doing doubles and conquering Europe but I believe we can hold and challenge a session long as we keep Poch and then have more investment with the new stadium.

Childish? Mate I have seen it posted by many United fans, I didn't mean you , don't quite see how it's "childish" either. It's the usual retort when someone doesn't like what they see, no need to make it personal.

 

[cyberman]

Of course. And Lukaku rather than Kane?

No, rather than Morata. Did you miss that whole saga?
We also signed Lindelof, doesn't mean we missed out on Boucci

 

[dakingpin1999]

Yes you will play up north mr rose, you will play for sunderland when you are 33

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Lol ... it's not as if you had much choice.

I'm thinking you may have some kind of mental impairment when it comes to Spurs. You seem to believe that you are part of the board and party to exactly what goes on behind the scenes. There was at least as much noise about our interest in Matic as there was Dier, possibly more, and yet you have constructed an alternative reality where we were desperate to sign him, got our noses punched by Spurs, and so were left with no option but to go after Matic. Is that what happened with Burnley and Michael Keane too? Cos I certainly remember us being strongly linked with him - he was even at Old Trafford late last season - but for some reason we ended up with Lindeloff?

What you seem unable to consider is that every player has a price at which a club will consider selling. A point at which the value to the club of the player is less than the value of what is being offered...it is simple economics that a money man like Levy will understand I'm sure. Every club, probably outside of Real Madrid and PSG at this stage, is subject to those pressures, and the lower down the food chain you are the more vultures you have circling.

PS. You didn't try for Bale or Modric? Of course you did.

Right, so your two examples are players that went to a club higher up the food chain (certainly over the last 5 years) than United? You realise that proves nothing? If Madrid had not been in for Bale do you think there is literally no chance that he would have signed for United?

 

[AdNani]

I was told, by the poster concerned, that only two things mattered: 1) That United want the player and 2) that the player wants to leave for United.

That can be Said of any club these days? Not just united, If a player wants a specific move and the club want it as well, very difficult to stop really.

Of course, I knew there had to be a simple explanation. Nothing to do with United's impotence when it comes to Spurs, obviously.

And clearly you preferred Lukaku to Kane. Thanks for clearing things up now. I understand now.

You sound incredibly bitter here.

 

[GlastonSpur]

If you can't piss with the big spenders then you will likely get left behind. Say whatever you like, that is simple logic. You cannot hope to sustain a long term, title challenging football team unless you are prepared to shell out big money in order to upgrade it, staying in line with those other clubs who not only harbor similar ambitions, but have the necessary funds available to achieve that goal. Unlike Spurs. This is simply the way it is in the modern game, are you denying this?

Your last paragraph is childish, mate. Hate is a ridiculously strong word to use in a debate involving United and Spurs fans. And don't invent false quotes, I have never said "I cant wait for them to be ripped apart" you just decided to add that little gem in order to bolster your argument somewhat, whatever that may be.

Lol ... how much have United spent since Fergie retired? In net terms I'd say United have outspent Spurs during this period by several hundreds of millions of pounds. And in terms of "pissing", you've mostly pissed it up against a wall judging by the league tables.

 

[Random Task]

Of course, I knew there had to be a simple explanation. Nothing to do with United's impotence when it comes to Spurs, obviously.

And clearly you preferred Lukaku to Kane. Thanks for clearing things up now. I understand now.

I wanted Kane above Lukaku, Morata or anyone else for that matter. But my feelings on our clubs signings are irrelevant, much the same as your delusional, irrational and outright naive rants on how everything at Spurs just rosy, when the reality of the matter is quite the opposite, an argument supported by other Spurs supporting members on this very website.

The "financial chickens" are coming home to roost.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Believe it if you wish, but the post-Berbatov years say otherwise.

And let's take this summer for instance. It's clear that United were after Dier, prior to settling for Matic. And I was told many times by United fans that he was allegedly keen to move - higher wages, blah blah. So what's your excuse as to why you didn't get him?

By all accounts Dier was keen to move. Matic is however by far the better player and our no 1 target for that position.

Matic is a two time title winner, and key to Chelsea's success (something you can't underestimate!). Dier is not even a nailed on starter for Spurs, but is younger and has potential. Much prefer Matic.

 

[cyberman]

Honestly, can this thread get back on topic? This is about a key Spurs player criticizing their wage structure and transfer policy.
Thanks

 

[GlastonSpur]

No, rather than Morata. Did you miss that whole saga?
We also signed Lindelof, doesn't mean we missed out on Boucci

It doesn't help the discussion for you to pretend that United wouldn't have preferred Kane to Lukaku. But Kane was beyond your reach, so needs must ...

 

[Random Task]

Lol ... how much have United spent since Fergie retired? In net terms I'd say United have outspent Spurs during this period by several hundreds of millions of pounds. And in terms of "pissing", you've mostly pissed it up against a wall judging by the league tables.

What does that have to do with the current debate, though? We're talking about Spurs' future here, not United's. Believe it or not, we could finish outside the top 4 every year for the next decade before we feel the ramifications that would likely result from that. If Spurs finish outside the top4 this season, I feel it's very likely a mass exodus will occur in the way of your players leaving for greener pastues.

 

[cyberman]

It doesn't help the discussion for you to pretend that United wouldn't have preferred Kane to Lukaku. But Kane was beyond your reach, so needs must ...

So what are you saying? We should sign big name players even if Jose has planned for them or not?
What about your many posts laughing at us for spending so much and yet here you are, claiming how we've settled because we haven't spent more.
You're all over the place here buddy.
Why sign Kane when we can sign Neymar? Hell Ronaldo. FECK ME WHAT ABOUT MESS!!!!

 

[GlastonSpur]

... You sound incredibly bitter here.

Why would I be bitter that United couldn't get Dier, or Kane, or any other current Spurs player for that matter?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

You mention Kane, that's intresting, both Chelsea and United and reportedly City were all looking for a goal scoring forward. Why was there no one single "record" bid for him. Now that you and Chelsea have tournament man I very much doubt either will come in for Kane for the foreseeable future, barring a flop of course. As for Ali, he has time and I don't think he's in any rush. It's funny how our most important player in Eriksen is never mentioned by domestic fans.

Kane signed a new contract just 6 months ago - I don't think he was a viable signing this season for loads of reasons, but that isn't to say that he will never be a viable signing. Kane seems to love Spurs and no doubt feels a certain loyalty, in part due to the recent new contract. Those feelings of loyalty will start to lessen if another season goes by with no trophies.

Not sure what you mean by Erikssen 'never being mentioned'? I actually strongly considered including him in my post but didn't think it actually added anything to the argument...I thought 2 examples would be enough to get my point across, I wasn't making an exhaustive list of Spurs' top players.

 

[cyberman]

I wonder how loud the applause was when he returned to Spurs training ground? I''ll bet it was thunderous.
Maybe since he was such a teachers pet that he planned this with Poch all along to kick Levy into action?

So many possibilities

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

What does that have to do with the current debate, though? We're talking about Spurs' future here, not United's. Believe it or not, we could finish outside the top 4 every year for the next decade before we feel the ramifications that would likely result from that. If Spurs finish outside the top4 this season, I feel it's very likely a mass exodus will occur in the way of your players leaving for greener pastues.

Ok so your saying if we finish outside the top 4 all our quality players will leave that summer? Just so we're clear.

Kane signed a new contract just 6 months ago - I don't think he was a viable signing this season for loads of reasons, but that isn't to say that he will never be a viable signing. Kane seems to love Spurs and no doubt feels a certain loyalty, in part due to the recent new contract. Those feelings of loyalty will start to lessen if another season goes by with no trophies.

Not sure what you mean by Erikssen 'never being mentioned'? I actually strongly considered including him in my post but didn't think it actually added anything to the argument...I thought 2 examples would be enough to get my point across, I wasn't making an exhaustive list of Spurs' top players.

Most of our squad bar Toby signed a new contract within the last year.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Honestly, can this thread get back on topic? This is about a key Spurs player criticizing their wage structure and transfer policy.
Thanks

are we not discussing Spurs' wage structure and transfer policy?

 

[cyberman]

are we not discussing Spurs' wage structure and transfer policy?

Most, yes. Its the continued attempt at United derailment that's the issue

 

[AdNani]

Lol ... how much have United spent since Fergie retired? In net terms I'd say United have outspent Spurs during this period by several hundreds of millions of pounds. And in terms of "pissing", you've mostly pissed it up against a wall judging by the league tables.

We've still won trophies during that period though? In fact we've won more trophies since he left than you have in my lifetime, which is why, if you don't start winning things or up the players wages, there will be players leaving,

 

[An Irish Red]

Lol ... how much have United spent since Fergie retired? In net terms I'd say United have outspent Spurs during this period by several hundreds of millions of pounds. And in terms of "pissing", you've mostly pissed it up against a wall judging by the league tables.

We've still won multiple trophies (including a european trophy) while Spurs have won absolutely nothing. In fact, we won more in the last year than Spurs have in the last fifteen years.

 

[AdNani]

Why would I be bitter that United couldn't get Dier, or Kane, or any other current Spurs player for that matter?

How can you possibly know that, would piss myself laughing if we get Rose.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Most of our squad bar Toby signed a new contract within the last year.

Most of your squad don't have such strong ties to Tottenham as Harry Kane. He's a Tottenham man, and that along with his new contract, and coming off the back of a 2nd place finish with Spurs, meant that this summer he was near on impossible to sign. Not sure that Alli or Erikssen (happy?) will have quite the same levels of loyalty that Kane has. But even Gerrard was on the brink of joining Chelsea...lack of trophies can do that to an elite player.

 

[Random Task]

I'm not saying we're going to be winning league titles, doing doubles and conquering Europe but I believe we can hold and challenge a session long as we keep Poch and then have more investment with the new stadium.

Childish? Mate I have seen it posted by many United fans, I didn't mean you , don't quite see how it's "childish" either. It's the usual retort when someone doesn't like what they see, no need to make it personal.

Didn't mean for it to come across in such a manner, mate. No hard feelings

Clearly a certain member of your tribe is getting under my skin somewhat, which is my own stupid fault for allowing it.

PS

And yeah, if Spurs finish outside the top4 this season I honestly believe there will be a mass exodus. Again, just my opinion.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Didn't mean for it to come across in such a manner, mate. No hard feelings

Clearly a certain member of your tribe is getting under my skin somewhat, which is my own stupid fault for allowing it.

PS

And yeah, if Spurs finish outside the top4 this season I honestly believe there will be a mass exodus. Again, just my opinion.

Time will tell I'd say we could lose a couple, but in reality when has a club been totally stripped of its stars in one season. I can only think of Southampton who clearly wanted to seek all the assets it could.

And don't worry it's easy to get wound up on here lol.