What game are you watching mate. Slow back or sideways passss, passes that went straight to Villa players, losing the ball, constantly breaking up our attacks.
To be fair Evans and others were also dire.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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To be fair Evans and others were also dire.
The fact LvG hauled him off. I know he did it with Paddy McNair, but he is a kid and an arm round him and reassurance that it was just an off day would have been enough. With Darren age is not on his side and it must have been awful for him.
Funny how fans demand loyalty from players but when its other way around,then no space for sentiments etc.I believe that every player has some value,some on the pitch,some off the pitch.
He's been a good/loyal servant and has done remarkably well to play again after his terrible illness. He is done here though and I think we should only play him if the entire midfield are injured. Even then though I'd rather see them take a chance on another U21/youth team player.
I agree.
Unfortunately Darren is only useful for cameo roles and that is sad. I was amazed the LvG thought he would last 90 minutes. If he cannot he will not be much use to any other PL team either. He is a lovely guy and yes he has been brave coming back from his illness, but I think Darren has some serious thinking to do about his future.
While I agree fans can be quick to write off players, that's not the case with Fletcher. He hasn't played well since 2010.
I'm not saying he's going to be a regular starter, but you have to take into consideration the limited amount of games we have played this season, all going well that won't be the case next year. Having an experienced player who can come on as a sub to give a player a rest or to help the youth players in cup games can only be beneficial.
TBH everytime I have seen him play this season, including when he was a starter at the start of the season, he has been poor.
I would rather Adreas Pereira was giving a chance ahead of him now (yes I know hes not a holding player) but Carrick/Blind can do that job.
He's been coming off the bench lately and he just makes things worse. I get that he's experienced, but he doesn't offer anything anymore.
That certainly did appear to be a policy many in the matchday thread had adopted yesterday, whether he represented the primary source of the team's difficulties or not. Easier to target the rusty campaigner who used to be ill but he with least attacking responsibility, than the creative players who failed to perform or LVG himself.
I clearly remember matches from last season in which he was praised, it's hardly the norm to go from that point "retire from the sport". It might be that the new regime is incompatible with the sort of environment Fletch needs at this stage in his career, be it the intensity of the training or the scarcity of game time to keep things ticking over if you will. I think some people were being remarkably hasty with their judgements, leastwise with the limited evidence available.
Rowing makes greater demands of both, you mean?
If it was me to decide, i wouldn't give him a new contract just so he could play a few cup games and because he is experienced. We need to build a competitive side and also be ruthless to players not good enough.
Good point about that, however that isn't an excuse for him not being good enough for this team.
I like Fletcher and I have a lot of respect for him but I do think it's time he hung up the boots. I'm sure he would have some coaching role with us maybe with the youth team as he's a player who the young players could definitely learn a lot from and he would make a good coach. His performance yesterday was just awful, it's a shame because Fletcher was a good player before his illness.
I haven't read any of the recent posts in here, but he is, quite obviously, no longer good enough. If there are any posters arguing that, as I suspect there will be, then they are not good enough either!*
*Usual disclaimer that must be attached to every post about Fletch about how he (seems) a great guy and everything and I have nothing against him as a person and acknowledge he has been a good player for us for (some) of his 10-odd years here.
*Usual disclaimer that must be attached to every post about Fletch about how he (seems) a great guy and everything and I have nothing against him as a person and acknowledge he has been a good player for us for (some) of his 10-odd years here.
When is his contract up?
This summer
I remember last season on here when I put his name forward on the list of players who needed to leave in the summer (along with a few others who are proving their worth this season admittedly) and most, except Pogue I think, called it disrespectful lunacy. It isn't just this season, he has looked off the pace since his return I believe.
He is now in liability territory sadly.
He is now in liability territory sadly.
Next appearance vs Yeovil in the FA Cup. Simple.
If his contract is up in the summer it might be taken out of his hands. They might just not renew it.
Very poor yday. In his defence wasn't really helped out much by Rooney/Mata
He's not playing close to the standard required. He's been a loyal servant to club and has been through an extremely tough couple years, don't get me wrong, I love the guy and I'm sure he'd be invaluable asset in some sort of coaching role. Just can't afford to keep giving him minutes when we're trying to be competitive really.
I wouldn't even give him that if it was for me. He has done nothing this season to deserve that.
I would reverse the course of the mistake Fergie made ahead of our FA Cup tie with City back then: basically play our most promising midfielder from our youth ranks and sit the veteran out on this one.
Yeah, I would like to see Blind (coming back from injury) paired with Pereira in that game.
What good could that serve? I'd rather one of our kids got a run out than him.
Thought he was OK yesterday. Not his fault that the centre of the pitch was so congested, and he's never been a massively creative player. He still showed more urgency and effort to get the ball forward than some of our players.
The reason he is still in the squad and playing is- in my opinion- mainly because of sentimental reasons. What else does he offer to this team? I don’t feel safe when he comes on the last 15 minutes. That might be harsh but that’s the way it is. Obviously he has a value for the team, but right now playing him against any EPL opposition is risky.*
Think that's a given and rightly so. Football is a business and Fletcher is not at the standard required now.
He just is not at the level that we need, could continue at a lower team or a smaller league.
Well i dont know whats going on outside official matches,on training ground,in locker room,how other players see him and his role among that group,i can only guess but i wont.If they keep him around,then he must have some value to us if not on the field then off the field.
I guess we both agree he should be kept off the field then.
While you can obviously feel bad for him on a personal level - he became ill when had finally, relatively briefly, actually been United quality - he's also been paid a rather impressive salary for the past 3 years basically without doing his 'job'.
So United don't really 'owe' him anything: he's been handsomely rewarded by the club who have shown him far, far more loyalty than almost any other player I can think of. When you consider we got rid of players like Brown and O'Shea - who have contributed far more to our success in the first team than Fletcher over the years - but kept Darren despite his illness...makes you wonder why to be honest. What did Fletch do to inspire so much loyalty that so many others did not?
So United don't really 'owe' him anything: he's been handsomely rewarded by the club who have shown him far, far more loyalty than almost any other player I can think of. When you consider we got rid of players like Brown and O'Shea - who have contributed far more to our success in the first team than Fletcher over the years - but kept Darren despite his illness...makes you wonder why to be honest. What did Fletch do to inspire so much loyalty that so many others did not?
Was it so very brief?
For several years at least he was one of those unsung players whom Fergie could rely upon when facing top opposition like Arsenal or Chelsea. You also appear to be writing off last season as if those individual performances were a shambles from start to last, which doesn't square with the reaction on here IIRC.
Now maybe he doesn't start games for us much this season, but if he can secure enough minutes on the pitch to regain form then he can still be a calming force should we want someone to help us close out the game IMO [he seems to be a good organiser and possess some tactical awareness in that way].
Because he's a human being and its the decent thing to do?
I don't see how you can have the gall to criticise a club for not being callous and petty in this day and age.
I reckon on the whole, although of course not entirely his fault due to the illness, that he has been a poor player, by United standards anyway, for more time than he has been a good Manchester United player.
As far as loyalty from the club is concerned, he has gotten a great deal from the United. He's been with us more than 10 years, off the top of my head, I'd say he's had perhaps 2 good seasons, maybe 3, I don't know, and also spent a fair bit of time being quite some way off the requisite standard. When you consider the players that have left us in that time, he's been treated fantastically. If he were to join Hull or St. Mirren in January, he cannot leave feeling he's been done harshly here. As much as people hate the suggestion, I think it is clear that Fergie had felt some sort of particular loyalty towards him, certainly one that exceeded his talents.
agree pretty much. if not for his illness I think he way well have progressed as a player. I think he will do well in a lower league.
Apologies. wrong choice of words from my side. What I meant was, LVG wouldn't pick someone up just for his reputation , without him showing adequate performances in training .
Yes it was very brief.
He's been out for three years, had two seasons where he was decent, and prior to that I thought his real name was "fecking" Darren Fletcher they way other fans talked about him.
Ah makes more sense, and I agree.Apologies. wrong choice of words from my side. What I meant was, LVG wouldn't pick someone up just for his reputation , without him showing adequate performances in training .
I love Fletcher but LVG need to drop him out of the 18-man squad until he has shown some improvement or someone buy him.He didn't really offer anything when coming off the bench either so the "experienced" bit is clearly overrated.
Fletcher confuses me, he was excellent pre-season but unlike players like Young and Valencia he has not taken that form into the league season. On our US tour Fletch was arguably our best player, yet now he seems unable to make even the simplest passes. You have to think its a confidence issue. I get what people are saying about the speed and pace of the game, but its one thing to lose mobility its another to lose the ability to hit a straight pass. Its odd too because from the outside it feels like LVG has tried to boost his confidence e.g. making him a team captain etc. Maybe something else is going on with him? Maybe he's worried about his contract situation?
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