Lol "See Hargreaves and Fletcher cases. I just wanted some perspective.... Anyone?... Perhaps I will go and ask in the commercial sports rights league thread.."
Darren Fletcher
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yes of course it's of interest, certainly since the financial restrictions of the Glazer family. Is it the insurance company that picks up the bill for the wages during any lengthy absence? Does a player have to retire for the club to claim a value for them.
Does the player get a lump sum for loss of potential future earnings?
What irritates me is why he wants to know something like this, when the main priority of the club and I think it should be for the fans too is that he recovers from his operation well. Regardless of if he returns or not, having a better quality of life is the most important thing.
Even if he didn't mean to sound insensitive, it still comes across as hugely insenstive considering the fact that Fletcher has a debilitating illness that severeley reduces his quality of life.
Why bother asking about the insurance? That right now simply does not matter, and it is downright insensitive too.
I'm bloody certain it would be of interest if we didn't qualify for the CL for a couple of seasons and the club was on the brink of doing a Leeds!
Yeah, the idea behind your logic is fine, but you're missing the point.
It's insenstive and is ignoring the fact that Fletcher is a human being suffering from colitis.
This can be talked about in a different thread if needed, but do you really need to talk about it right now?
Oh Christ! It goes without saying we all want Fletcher to recover from this but is that all we can post!! Without sounding insensitive! Grow a pair!
Yeah but that's not the case, so I ask again, why do you give a shit.
We'll get whatever/ any insurance when we get it.
How much are we paying the window cleaners? Is it comparable to other clubs or are we over paying? - now there's a burning question. Why not give that some thought until you pass out from the anxiety of the uncertainty.
One of my best mates has it, and whilst it's true that there is no 'cure', only treatments which can manage or somewhat alleviate symptoms, the severity with which it affects your life varies wildly.
As one person said, it can leave you with low energy, digestive problems and even severe pain for the rest of your life. But my friend, who was an Olympic-standard sprinter when he was younger and was aiming at London 2012 before he developed the condition, is so much better than he was a year or two ago. He'll never be a professional sprinter, and even on the drugs that he has to take daily he had serious physical problems for years and years after the condition presented itself.
But he's recently started to get into competitive road cycling, which places far less strain on his body, but still takes advantage of his general athleticism and some of the qualities which made him a great runner. He seems to be making real inroads into the sport.
So I wouldn't write Fletch off as a player just yet. But I also don't see him ever being anything other than back-up for us. It would perhaps be better if he felt able to give up on playing and find a coaching role at the club or indeed elsewhere. But then only he can know what his circumstances and feelings are.
As one person said, it can leave you with low energy, digestive problems and even severe pain for the rest of your life. But my friend, who was an Olympic-standard sprinter when he was younger and was aiming at London 2012 before he developed the condition, is so much better than he was a year or two ago. He'll never be a professional sprinter, and even on the drugs that he has to take daily he had serious physical problems for years and years after the condition presented itself.
But he's recently started to get into competitive road cycling, which places far less strain on his body, but still takes advantage of his general athleticism and some of the qualities which made him a great runner. He seems to be making real inroads into the sport.
So I wouldn't write Fletch off as a player just yet. But I also don't see him ever being anything other than back-up for us. It would perhaps be better if he felt able to give up on playing and find a coaching role at the club or indeed elsewhere. But then only he can know what his circumstances and feelings are.
I think you're missing the point. It's equally important for the player. Who knows if Fletcher will recover but one things for sure he would have had a good few more contract renewals without this awful illness. I think I'm right in saying he's got 2 kids? The potential loss of earnings for him is enormous. I'm just curious as to what happens in this situation, it's not like we're taking about small change for club or player (window cleaner).
Think some guys are being a bit strong here. Human beings are surely complex enough to have both a great deal of empathy for Fletcher and to also wonder what the insurance situation is. Not really one or another. Can't be sure of the thought process behind the question too - I'd guess the initial reaction would have been empathy, and then upon pondering the situation on the whole for a while, other random little questions pop up. The curiousity about the logistics of Fletch retiring for instance, isn't unnatural. It's educational.
Am I the only one who thought that the article sounded quite positive?
Aims to "resolve" the problem and put it "firmly behind" him by having this surgery. IIRC, previous statements mentioned that we hoped to "manage" the problem.
Sounds to me like the club think that this surgery can help Fletcher to actually make a strong comeback.
Aims to "resolve" the problem and put it "firmly behind" him by having this surgery. IIRC, previous statements mentioned that we hoped to "manage" the problem.
Sounds to me like the club think that this surgery can help Fletcher to actually make a strong comeback.
terrible news but I hope it can sort him out for his day to day living. I was worried as the fixtures passed by with no sign of him and now his absence makes sense. Hate to think it but I wonder if thats it for his playing career?
I felt that way too.
Having successfully fully recovered from this condition myself (having gone through exactly the same symptoms and surgeries Fletcher has 6 years ago), I think that if every goes well, Fletcher could be able to get back to full fitness.
The surgery eradicates the problem and should allow for full fitness to be regained. Im also assuming surgery techniques and rehabilitation procedures will have significantly improved since I underwent treatment in 2005.
I hope he can prove me wrong but I can't really see him coming back from this, the strain of professional football would be too much. He deserves patience and support and the club should give him as much time as possible to prove his fitness in the future - at least as much as we gave Hargreaves, certainly - but we shouldn't have high expectations.
Didn't know he had a planned operation, was this said before this has come out? Perhaps I missed it
EP> I think you're missing the point
The point is that "All 3 United" is an idiot who if you look through his posting history has had nothing but negative posting related to Fletcher. His comment is just another case of "yes! when the feck can we get him out the door?"
The point is that "All 3 United" is an idiot who if you look through his posting history has had nothing but negative posting related to Fletcher. His comment is just another case of "yes! when the feck can we get him out the door?"
I think we made a mistake bringing him back, to be honest. Great player at his best but what were the chances he'd ever be anywhere near his best again?
you really don't get it.... Read what everyone has said to a few times, then respond...
I haven't a clue at the issue, but just for arguments sake... If surgery can cure him, why did he previously go through the route of trying to 'manage' it?
Really not great news about Darren Fletcher, sincerely hope that the surgery assists with his condition and that he returns fully fit in the new season.
Bless up Fletch, get well soon.
Do you mean we brought him back too early, or the fact we brought him back at all?
It's just the right course of action. Surgery is always a last resort for any illness if there are other less invasive therapies available first.
If he's in any way holding us back from signing other players then I personally think it was a mistake to bring him back at all. I personally thought it was pretty obvious he wouldn't be getting back to his best.
I love Fletcher and hope he can be completely healthy after this but I think sentiment will be the only reason for keeping him with the first team.
All I can think about is false hope, I really hope the doctors treating him and the medical people within the club are not giving him false hope.
It seems strange to me that he would sit out a year, come back to regain physical fitness and then have this operation which everyone seems confident will work. Surely the poor fella is going to lose weight and muscle mass as well as suffer a deteriorated physical condition once again?
As much as I hope this works out for him on a human level, as a Manchester United fan I really hope the club are not pinning this surgery as definite for him to make a return next season. It's times like this where you have to say 'fecking midfield'.
Anyway, I'm no doctor or football professional...let's see how it pans out.
It seems strange to me that he would sit out a year, come back to regain physical fitness and then have this operation which everyone seems confident will work. Surely the poor fella is going to lose weight and muscle mass as well as suffer a deteriorated physical condition once again?
As much as I hope this works out for him on a human level, as a Manchester United fan I really hope the club are not pinning this surgery as definite for him to make a return next season. It's times like this where you have to say 'fecking midfield'.
Anyway, I'm no doctor or football professional...let's see how it pans out.
Don't think thats fair comment to say that he was stopping us from signing new players. The coaches and the doctors would have made an educated judgement on his progress about whether he could return, at that time, to this level. Sure, he looked like someone who was rusty but doesnt any player who comes back from injury.
Whether he gets the all clear after this surgery or not is a different matter, but i'd rather believe that the doctors and coaches have Fletchers best interests at heart, as well as the club. No-one will keep him for sentiments sake.
I said "if" though, I have no way of knowing whether he was holding us back from signing new players and I didn't mean to imply that he was. Your point does still stand though, if the doctors and coaching staff thought he would be able to get back to his best then it's a risk worth taking I suppose. I just personally never thought that would happen and this new surgery only makes things worse in my eyes, he'll basically be completely starting over again and he'll be close to 30 by the time he comes back.
The latter, obviously.
Obvious that you wouldn't want a quality player back?
Has he looked quality to you this season?
A player who hasn't played football for a year, hadn't played good football for two years, and had a very serious condition which at one point seemed would stop him ever playing again (hence SAF saying he could make him a coach).
If you took the sentimental aspect out of things (which we should) then really, Fletcher shouldn't be playing for us anymore.
Fair enough. We've had a few players like that, but I don't think it's anything sentimental, more to do with not giving up on certain players until it's 100% that they're past it.
Fact is, you take away his energy and stamina and he's only half the player he once was. He looked really poor whenever he played this season.
Good to hear your view on it!
It's not a ridiculous question. Not specifically in Fletcher's case, but in general, I'd like to know if clubs take out insurance on players and under what circumstances they would be able to make a claim. I'm also curious to know if players also have some sort of employment insurance in case of injury or a long-term illness that would end their career.
I didn't see these quotes from SAF on the last 2 pages, and they seem interesting.
"This (surgery) improves Darren's prospects of returning. It was something we thought would happen anyway. He tried his best to cope with the condition with the treatments he was using but, in the last couple of weeks, it's come back."
"He had to change his game and he hasn't been the Darren Fletcher of three or four years ago in the games this season. Instead, he was sitting in front of the back four and he did well. That could be his role in the future. When he comes back, and I hope he does, it will be in a different role."
"This (surgery) improves Darren's prospects of returning. It was something we thought would happen anyway. He tried his best to cope with the condition with the treatments he was using but, in the last couple of weeks, it's come back."
"He had to change his game and he hasn't been the Darren Fletcher of three or four years ago in the games this season. Instead, he was sitting in front of the back four and he did well. That could be his role in the future. When he comes back, and I hope he does, it will be in a different role."
Not necessarily. There might be provision in the insurance contract to cover the long term loss of a players services due to injury. Does he have to retire?
I hope Fletcher does make it back. It's a personal tragedy for him - a really dedicated professional who pulled himself up by his bootstraps to the top of the game, only to be immediately struck down by a horrible illness.
Shame to hear the news. Though not exactly unexpected given how he dropped away from the squad after starting to feature. Can't see him ever making it back to a full time first team player for the club, but hopefully he can get on top of things again
Good Luck, Fletch. Our prayers are with you.
Whether you play or not, I hope you will recover from this ailment, and lead a normal life.
Whether you play or not, I hope you will recover from this ailment, and lead a normal life.
Fingers crossed Darren comes back!