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2019-20 Performances


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5.8 Season Average Rating
Appearances
42
Clean sheets
15
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
2

Mr Smith

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Not with the power behind it. He only just gets his hands in position and cant get his body behind them to reinforce himself. It wasn't impossible to save but it's not fair to say you'd save it 9/10 times. That can't be labelled as an error like the Mount goal.
It's 100% an error. The way you can tell is that the ball connects with his fist. Not his hand, his fist. If you connect with an open palm you can try to direct the ball in a different direction. With the fist, the ball goes anywhere.

It's not a clanger, like letting the ball sneak under you or dropping it into your own net, but it is an error of technique.
 

Adam-Utd

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It's 100% an error. The way you can tell is that the ball connects with his fist. Not his hand, his fist. If you connect with an open palm you can try to direct the ball in a different direction. With the fist, the ball goes anywhere.

It's not a clanger, like letting the ball sneak under you or dropping it into your own net, but it is an error of technique.
Just because it hits his fist doesn't mean it's an error :lol: he's JUST moved his hands to get into a position where he's tracking the ball, then it hits his fist rather than his fist punching the ball.

I genuinely think some of you expect people to be super human? that shot was well over 60mph and the reaction times required would have been ridiculous.

On another day if he had flat palms could he have guided it away? maybe, but the same thing would have probably happened and it wouild have slipped over his head.

The only thing I can say he did wrong is he tried to bring his right arm across to push it away, instead he should have maybe held his arms down and tried to block it with his body, but it's easy to criticise in hindsight.


I guarantee you if that's Alisson not a word would have been said.
 
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Mr Smith

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Just because it hits his fist doesn't mean it's an error :lol: he's JUST moved his hands to get into a position where he's tracking the ball, then it hits his fist rather than his fist punching the ball.

I genuinely think some of you expect people to be super human? that shot was well over 60mph and the reaction times required would have been ridiculous.

On another day if he had flat palms could he have guided it away? maybe, but the same thing would have probably happened and it wouild have slipped over his head.

I guarantee you if that's Alisson not a word would have been said.
Surely you can appreciate the difference between saving a shot hit that hard with the palm and the fist? The former offers significantly greater control. Either he's made a conscious decision to connect with his fist (in which case it's a technical error for the reason above), or its an involuntary movement (ie a clenching of the fist reflexively as the shot comes towards him). Which is the kind of nerves you shouldn't expect from a high-level goalkeeper with the ball coming at you, given that saving balls travelling at them with pace is kind of in the job description. Either way, it's just not an error he makes 2-3 years ago. I've seen him save tons of shots like that with a different technique.

Am I being harsh here? I don't think so, but perhaps I am setting a high standard. For the record, I want to give him another season to recover and find his best form. But lets call a spade a spade. It was an error, and I think you have to be deliberately ignoring the facts (ie that the technique he used was objectively wrong and not something any goalkeeping coach would advise you of doing) to say it wasn't.
 

Adam-Utd

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Surely you can appreciate the difference between saving a shot hit that hard with the palm and the fist? The former offers significantly greater control. Either he's made a conscious decision to connect with his fist (in which case it's a technical error for the reason above), or its an involuntary movement (ie a clenching of the fist reflexively as the shot comes towards him). Which is the kind of nerves you shouldn't expect from a high-level goalkeeper with the ball coming at you, given that saving balls travelling at them with pace is kind of in the job description. Either way, it's just not an error he makes 2-3 years ago. I've seen him save tons of shots like that with a different technique.

Am I being harsh here? I don't think so, but perhaps I am setting a high standard. For the record, I want to give him another season to recover and find his best form. But lets call a spade a spade. It was an error, and I think you have to be deliberately ignoring the facts (ie that the technique he used was objectively wrong and not something any goalkeeping coach would advise you of doing) to say it wasn't.
Very. This is why slow motion video shouldn't be used when judging something like that. The shot is an absolute rocket from 10 yards away.

Let me ask you this, if he didn't even react and the shot whizzed passed him would you be calling it an error or just saying the shot was too strong? it's only because it's close to him that you are calling it an error. Could he have done something differently? yes. is it an error? no.
 

RedorDead21

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Jul 16, 2013
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We can’t win the league with him in goal. What a strange belief but that’s exactly
How I see it. Stranger still, I wouldn’t say that about any other first team player.
 

Mr Smith

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Very. This is why slow motion video shouldn't be used when judging something like that. The shot is an absolute rocket from 10 yards away.

Let me ask you this, if he didn't even react and the shot whizzed passed him would you be calling it an error or just saying the shot was too strong? it's only because it's close to him that you are calling it an error. Could he have done something differently? yes. is it an error? no.
If he could have done something differently that would have resulted in the shot being saved, then it is an error, literally by definition.

If the shot was that close to him and whizzed past him, obviously its an error. If he has to reach for it, obviously not, because he has further to go in the same space of time.

But lets not get bogged down in the semantics. The fact is if you can't rely on your keeper to keep out even very powerful shots hit directly at them, then you have a problem. I don't think its unreasonable to expect keepers at the highest level who practice every day to save shots hit directly at them, no matter how powerful they are. And at the end of the day, we have seen shots like these saved before. When a different technique is used (the correct technique), they are saved. So my wider point is that we have to be critical about this, because there's a clear change in technique that has resulted in a failure, where previously there was success.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Sep 1, 2015
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I'm not sure, but you're missing the point here. The mistakes there, are because they take some risks which has obvious benefits due to their good distribution, they are better at beating the press and especially at City Ederson is a key part of that with his passing.
If DDG mistakes also came with obvious benefits due to great distribution then it would be a positive not a negative. Right now it's a flaw and regression in his game since actually his distribution although not elite was pretty good before.

What you are calling similar or worse, its blatantly missing the actual point about what it means to have a keeper with great distribution. The point wasn't that other keepers don't make mistakes, the point is that we are having to have our creative CMS drop far to deep to get the ball and we struggle badly against the press because of it. DDG isn't the only flaw there the CBs are also and the DM but I won't get into that. However it clearly part of his game that has regressed to a point where its a negative and not a positive to the team
I forgot to pick you up on Ederson and Alison “not needing a Matic to drop” that’s completely untrue. The majority of their passes are to deep CBs or CDMs like Rodri or Fabinho.

If you’re not sure (it is true I’ve just checked) then do you understand my point?

I know what you’re saying and don’t disagree either but I don’t think we need De Gea for that. The biggest issue in De
Gea for me is crosses now. We have players happy and capable of playing from deep.
 

BenitoSTARR

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In all honestly because long term we actually need a different type of keeper, and over time DDG has shown he isn't going to develop those parts of his game.

Namely:
Distribution
Command of Area

We need to start thinking about his succession plan
Absolutely agree we need to start thinking about his succession plan.

I don’t think however we are in any kind of position to do so this season. However with our current recruitment ongoing for a
GK talent scout (see United Website vacancies) I think the club is now doing the right thing in preparing for life after De Gea.
There's no way anyone would buy him on the wages he is on with us and Ole will be under pressure to either get rid of him or play him when he's on silly money. We've made a rod for our own back once again with rewarding players with lucrative long-term contracts when they are on the wane.
I agree we’d end up losing an asset below his actual value which also doesn’t make sense either.

I don’t think De Gea is as bad as people are making out and very much see a grass is greener approach to him and believe if we act too soon we’ll end up in another post Schmeichel situation as opposed to a post EVDS one.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
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20,085
I forgot to pick you up on Ederson and Alison “not needing a Matic to drop” that’s completely untrue. The majority of their passes are to deep CBs or CDMs like Rodri or Fabinho.

If you’re not sure (it is true I’ve just checked) then do you understand my point?

I know what you’re saying and don’t disagree either but I don’t think we need De Gea for that. The biggest issue in De
Gea for me is crosses now. We have players happy and capable of playing from deep.
I said Ederson (I did not mention Alison), and when they are pressed high and the short pass isn't on to the CB or CDM he makes the pass to the wings or to the forwards, this he does with great accuracy Basically he can make any pass and makes the decisions based on the game.
Its not about the majority its about the flexibility and versatility in the passing. They don't need the KBD to drop deep as well as Rodri or whoever to get the ball, meanwhile, for us Matic will drop then Pogba will also. DDG tries to make the pass to the wing and he either puts it on the head of the fullback instead of feet, or it goes out of play quite a few times. Obviously not always but he isn't as good and so it breaks down here. It's an obvious thing which is being pointed out here and no matter how great a DDG fan anyone is you cannot argue against his inferioriority in that aspect.

Every team has players who can play from deep, but sometimes you cannot and so your keeper it would be preferable if they can find you the out ball instead of passing the buck to someone else (which increases the pressure on the team during a press), again example like Ederson does
 
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United58

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Jan 14, 2019
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1-3 against Arsenal 'I had a decent game' That's putting it mildly, it was one of the greatest goalkeeping performances ever!

2012-2018 he was the best shot stopper in the world, far too many howlers now though. I fear he's on a permanent decline, what a phenomenal player he was at his peak
 

FujiVice

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May 8, 2013
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The arsenal 3-1, the Liverpool 3-0, the Everton game were all better than Schmikes famous Newcastle performance. For a while games like that were pretty common for Dave. What a player at his peak.
Context is key here. Nobody puts Schmeichel's performance in that Newcastle game as some text book example of a collection of saves. Its because he managed to keep an absolute onslaught of one-way attack to 0-0 at half time, in a must win game which completely changed the fortunes of the title race. Schmeichel's performance in terms of influence, instructions and doing the simple things well is what made that performance still remembered after 25 years.

In terms of big matches, De Gea isnt even in Schmeichel's league. Schmeichel grew when the preasure was on. De Gea's been a big fish in a small pond for about 5 years.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Losing to Comeback Winning!
2012-2018 he was the best shot stopper in the world, far too many howlers now though. I fear he's on a permanent decline, what a phenomenal player he was at his peak
A player that is so consistently that good for straight 5-6 years, it just doesn't make sense he suddenly making howlers after howlers nowadays. It's nothing to do with physical eg. injuries. Keepers doesn't affected much by physical, instead normally keepers becoming better as he ages.

Problem is undoubtedly mental. What change?

We should give him one-three months break at the start of next season. Schmeichel also made howlers in the 98-99 season, Fergie gave him a good break midway and he's back stronger.
 

United58

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A player that is so consistently that good for straight 5-6 years, it just doesn't make sense he suddenly making howlers after howlers nowadays. It's nothing to do with physical eg. injuries. Keepers doesn't affected much by physical, instead normally keepers becoming better as he ages.

Problem is undoubtedly mental. What change?

We should give him one-three months break at the start of next season. Schmeichel also made howlers in the 98-99 season, Fergie gave him a good break midway and he's back stronger.
Honestly I think it's just he's past his peak - even if he's physically at 99%, mentally he's so used to being 100% that he can't do the exact same thing and it gets to him.

Maybe - hopefully - I'm wrong, but I don't think we'll see him back to how he was.
 

FujiVice

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We should give him one-three months break at the start of next season. Schmeichel also made howlers in the 98-99 season, Fergie gave him a good break midway and he's back stronger.
Schmeichel was over-weight, feeling his injuries and was in his mid-30s. He needed a break because he was breaking down physically and couldnt play 60 matches a year anymore. And Schmeichel only missed 4 games. If we have to send a keeper on £300,000 a week out for a quarter of the season in his prime because he cant stop a weak shot going in from 25 years, he needs to take up bowling or something.