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2020-21 Performances


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-Supreme-

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This is an out of the ordinary situation as I believe de Gea's partner lives in Spain whereas Bruno and most other players live with their wives/girlfriends.
I don't think you understood what I have said and the post I responded to.

Do you think Ole will allow Bruno to take a month off if he was in De Gea's situation?
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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I don't think you understood what I have said and the post I responded to.

Do you think Ole will allow Bruno to take a month off if he was in De Gea's situation?
That's a counter factual not worth debating for exactly the reasons I posted there. De Gea's situation is out of the ordinary. If Bruno needed a game or two away to be with his wife, I'm sure Ole would accommodate that but anything more might not even be necessary in ordinary circumstances.
 

-Supreme-

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That's a counter factual not worth debating for exactly the reasons I posted there. De Gea's situation is out of the ordinary. If Bruno needed a game or two away to be with his wife, I'm sure Ole would accommodate that but anything more might not even be necessary in ordinary circumstances.
So in summary, Ole has made an easy decision that most managers would have made as he has a very capable goalie in Dean Henderson.
 

RedDevil@84

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To be fair this isn't a difficult decision when he has a very capable goalie to cover him.

Do you think Ole will allow this to happen for Bruno?
Yes, of course he will. This has nothing to do with Henderson. If Grant was the keeper available, then the same would have happened. If the club don't have quality backups, then it is the club's fault for not planning.
 

-Supreme-

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If you want a 1001th new reason to shit on Ole, sure, go ahead.
So I’ve merely pointed to a poster saying most managers would be a c*nt and not allow this player take a month off but this isn’t entirely true given the circumstances which you have agreed on. Ok so I’ve shit on Ole indeed:lol:
 

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So I’ve merely pointed to a poster saying most managers would be a c*nt and not allow this player take a month off but this isn’t entirely true given the circumstances which you have agreed on. Ok so I’ve shit on Ole indeed:lol:
I mean, we're less than 3 years removed from a manager who was getting on Smalling's back for not playing through an injury, imagine what he would have said if De Gea had asked for a month of paternity leave.
 

sullydnl

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Good news all round. DDG gets a healthy kid and a short break, we get to see a bit more of Henderson in goal while he's gone. Win-win.
 

Sunny Jim

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Became a dad yesterday apparently


I reckon there's some managers who'd be absolute cnuts about their first choice goalkeeper leaving the country in these circumstances.... I'm glad Ole isn't a cnut.
I manage people myself. My principal is that family, health and serious private matters come before work. It has never let me down, people give back twice if you allow them to sort important matters.
 

Devil81

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Great news for De Gea but given the situation with a battle for top four what's the thought process with allowing him this break?

I think there is more than meets the eye here, I wonder if it's De Gea that's forced the issue of paternity leave.

Just don't see how a manager can consider giving his keeper four weeks of at such a crucial time of the season. It's not like he's considered Henderson first choice at any other point of the season and like someone else pointed out will all players get the same treatment in future?
 

justsomebloke

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Whatever the ifs and buts, the upshot is that we're now looking at a protracted run for Henderson without De Gea having to be benched, which is convenient.
 

sullydnl

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Interesting thread from someone who does statistical analysis of goalkeepers.

Basically De Gea's reluctance to come out for crosses hasn't changed but he is sweeping more this season. Which tallies with the reports at the start of the season that he had worked at that aspect of his game over the break.

Good to see he's at least trying to improve some of his weaknesses.

Also in terms of his shot stopping (from the same guy):



This suggests that in 17/18 he was consistently excellent, in 18/19 he fluctuated wildly between excellent and poor, 19/20 he started badly but ended strong, 20/21 he started well but then became average.
 
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Annihilate Now!

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To be fair this isn't a difficult decision when he has a very capable goalie to cover him.

Do you think Ole will allow this to happen for Bruno?
It's an interesting hypothetical I guess... From what we know of Ole he seems very keen on the people managing side of things, so I reckon yeah, he'd probably do the same for Bruno.... Plus keeping his star player onside and not pissing him off would be better for him in the long run.

Great news for De Gea but given the situation with a battle for top four what's the thought process with allowing him this break?

I think there is more than meets the eye here, I wonder if it's De Gea that's forced the issue of paternity leave.

Just don't see how a manager can consider giving his keeper four weeks of at such a crucial time of the season. It's not like he's considered Henderson first choice at any other point of the season and like someone else pointed out will all players get the same treatment in future?
Apparently De Gea won't have to quarantine as an "elite sportsperson" when he comes back to the country, so it probably won't be that long.

But yeh I think in general we should be happy we have a manager/club that permits that sort of thing... much more important on a human level then a game of football.
 

MadDogg

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Interesting thread from someone who does statistical analysis of goalkeepers.

Basically De Gea's reluctance to come out for crosses hasn't changed but he is sweeping more this season. Which tallies with the reports at the start of the season that he had worked at that aspect of his game over the break.

Good to see he's at least trying to improve some of his weaknesses.
I'd be interested to know if that had changed over the course of the season. He did seem to be coming out and performing a sweeper role a bit more often at the beginning of the season, but my impression is that as the season has wore on he's dropped back to his previous level again.

Also in terms of his shot stopping (from the same guy):



This suggests that in 17/18 he was consistently excellent, in 18/19 he fluctuated wildly between excellent and poor, 19/20 he started badly but ended strong, 20/21 he started well but then became average.
The main surprising thing is the end of 19/20 being fairly good by those stats. I don't remember him performing well then, but I guess the poor games I can remember him having tended to be in the cup competitions which wouldn't be included here.
 

Hailee

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I reckon there's some managers who'd be absolute cnuts about their first choice goalkeeper leaving the country in these circumstances.... I'm glad Ole isn't a cnut.
Nothing about Ole being nice or a cnut. Everybody knows this is a good excuse to drop De Gea because he needed to be dropped anyway. We also need to give Henderson a chance or he is going to throw his toys out of the pram like Lukaku. Having a new kid is a great wholesome excuse, so nobody needs to look bad here. De Gea probably is in on this and planned this out with the management.

For every other important player, running away from their jobs mid season would be unforgivable. Having a kid isn't an excuse, you can't tell me no one saw the kid coming and cannot make plans to bring the wife over to settle in with you before the baby arrives. You will probably be given a few days off when the baby arrives and that's it, just like for any other job.

This is clearly planned out early and works out perfectly. Now we will only get to see more drama regardless of how well Henderson plays, there is going to be plenty of moans on the Caf either way.
 

sullydnl

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I'd be interested to know if that had changed over the course of the season. He did seem to be coming out and performing a sweeper role a bit more often at the beginning of the season, but my impression is that as the season has wore on he's dropped back to his previous level again.
I was thinking the same. Maybe once he started being criticised a bit more as the season went on he became more cautious in case he made a mistake? Or maybe I've just stopped noticing the improvement.

The main surprising thing is the end of 19/20 being fairly good by those stats. I don't remember him performing well then, but I guess the poor games I can remember him having tended to be in the cup competitions which wouldn't be included here.
In a way the most worrying thing for me is it settling down to average this season. At least when it was fluctuating wildly between excellent and terrible you knew he was capable of being excellent if he got himself sorted. Whereas now while I think most people would agree he hasn't had nearly as many disastrous moments this season as in his last two, he also isn't showing enough upside.

If he was looking like a brilliant shot-stopper with aerial weaknesses who was working on his sweeping and had cut individual errors out of his game then I think we'd generally be happy enough going forward. Replace "brilliant" with "mediocre" in that sentence and it's a very different story.
 

Eugenius

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I was thinking the same. Maybe once he started being criticised a bit more as the season went on he became more cautious in case he made a mistake? Or maybe I've just stopped noticing the improvement.



In a way the most worrying thing for me is it settling down to average this season. At least when it was fluctuating wildly between excellent and terrible you knew he was capable of being excellent if he got himself sorted. Whereas now while I think most people would agree he hasn't had nearly as many disastrous moments this season as in his last two, he also isn't showing enough upside.

If he was looking like a brilliant shot-stopper with aerial weaknesses who was working on his sweeping and had cut individual errors out of his game then I think we'd generally be happy enough going forward. Replace "brilliant" with "mediocre" in that sentence and it's a very different story.
DDG has always been weak in the air. The issue has been that his handling and shot stopping have gone from the best in the world to average for a Premier league keeper.
 

sullydnl

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DDG has always been weak in the air. The issue has been that his handling and shot stopping have gone from the best in the world to average for a Premier league keeper.
Yep. Particularly as that shot-stopping often compensated directly for that aerial weakness:



So it isn't just that his strengths aren't as strong, his weaknesses also do more harm.
 

sullydnl

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I might be the only person who finds these interesting but here's a thread on DDG's decline in 1-on-1s, which goes some way to explaining his diminished shot-stopping.


Interesting that rather than being down to slower reflexes (which you would have ascribed to aging) it instead appears to be down to flaws creeping into his technique.
 

luke511

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De Gea will probably want to move back to Spain now his wife has had a child. I think it'd be a great career choice to move to a La Liga side outside of Barca, Real and Atletico, a club where he will be able to exercise and showcase his shot stopping skills.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Great news for De Gea but given the situation with a battle for top four what's the thought process with allowing him this break?

I think there is more than meets the eye here, I wonder if it's De Gea that's forced the issue of paternity leave.

Just don't see how a manager can consider giving his keeper four weeks of at such a crucial time of the season. It's not like he's considered Henderson first choice at any other point of the season and like someone else pointed out will all players get the same treatment in future?
That we might have a chance now that he isnt in goal.
 

Counterfactual

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Anyone think David will go back to Spain soon (new kid, wife who wants to be there I guess) and be a decent keeper? We'll switch to Henderson plus a decent backup and save a small fortune on David's wages.

I guess he'd have to accept a wage cut though.

The next few weeks will probably determine if it's the course the club and player want to take.
 

sullydnl

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Underlines the point that while De Gea's shot stopping has been okay, it hasn't been exceptional enough to justify his weaknesses.

Will be interested to see how Henderson fares once he has played enough games to consider.
 

Deery

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Well wasn’t it a great idea giving DeGea that bumper new contract ffs, when will this club ever learn..
 

Adisa

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If he leaves, can leave with his head held high. What a keeper he's been for the club.
 

Deery

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If he leaves, can leave with his head held high. What a keeper he's been for the club.
No denying that loved him as a player but to give him £350k a week on a multi year contract was just insane everyone knew it at the time as well..
 

spontaneus1

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Will be interested to see how Henderson fares once he has played enough games to consider.
Hendersons shot stopping is a lot worse than De Gea, particularly I don't like where he deflects the ball on his saves. Often straight back towards danger.
 

Ayoba

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No denying that loved him as a player but to give him £350k a week on a multi year contract was just insane everyone knew it at the time as well..
It's an insane amount of money for a GK but I can sort of understand it. At the time the contract was given he was arguably one of the best keepers in the world and certainly the best player in our team, so it made sense that he was rewarded with a fat contract!
 

sullydnl

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Hendersons shot stopping is a lot worse than De Gea, particularly I don't like where he deflects the ball on his saves. Often straight back towards danger.
Depends what you mean by "shot stopping", I think. I posted stats above regarding De Gea's decline in one on ones which I suspect drag his shot stopping stats down.

If you exclude those and just look at long shots, reflex save, etc. then I suspect you're right and De Gea is still better. He's certainly more evidently talented in that regard, at least. Plus I'm not sure if there are stats that capture what you're on about, as in where Henderson directs the ball.

But of course pretty much any goalkeeper we replaced De Gea with was going to be a less talented shot-stopper.
 

Litch

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I think you never know what you've got until the player is here and playing. I suspect since coming back, he has impressed the manager and players that the club has had to rethink over DDG. Henderson for me is suited for the English game and DDG lack of commanding his box is a problem for a good few years. Teams target DDG at set pieces and corners....
 

DoomSlayer

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No denying that loved him as a player but to give him £350k a week on a multi year contract was just insane everyone knew it at the time as well..
The people that gave Phil Jones a contract didn't know it. Those that blocked Romero's move and he's now sitting in Argentina, collecting a fat paycheck every month, also didn't know that.

Most people in our club know feck all about football.
 

Deery

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The people that gave Phil Jones a contract didn't know it. Those that blocked Romero's move and he's now sitting in Argentina, collecting a fat paycheck every month, also didn't know that.

Most people in our club know feck all about football.
It’s ironic that his name is Judge when he’s such a shit judge of player contracts.
 

DoomSlayer

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He doesn't have sole responsibility to offer contracts and finalise them, it's a collective feck up. Singling out one person is unfair.
True, sadly it's been going on for the last 8 years, which has left us behind the likes of City indefinitely.