Havent watched him but how good is that Raya guy that he's so lauded in here?
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Seems after making two more good saves De Gea is once again the best goalkeeper in the world and people completely ignore the reality that he is average at his best quality, I want to remind you all of the above.I'll ignore the first bit, as it is a longer argument.
Here's the comparison with Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal keepers + Unai Simon:
Average at clean sheets and saves percentage. And again his longevity is obviously helping him. Only Mendy is ahead from the younger keepers.
Here's a deeper look into the stats:
Launched (40 yards or more) balls are De Gea's default way of playing the ball out and he is really not good at it.
Notice also the penultimate column (#OPA/90 = Number of actions outside of penalty area per 90 minute). De Gea is dead last, by a distance. This is the 'sweeper-keeper' metric.
Notice also the Stp% one. This is Crosses Stopped Percentage. Again, dead last, by a country mile.
I've highlighted medium distance passes (15-30 yards) as those are the diagonals towards fullbacks which are an absolute must for modern goalkeepers.
So, what is the summary?
De Gea is average at shot stopping. He is quite poor in long balls. He is very poor at medium distance balls. He is incredibly poor at sweeping and stopping crosses.
And he is the highest paid goalkeeper in the world.
Do you see where the problem is?
I wouldn't use those stats, they're very unreliable.
Doctor John Harrison says he's performing above PL average at sweeping and distribution this season. Last season he said De Gea's shot stopping saved us 10 goals compared to an average PL keeper.
There it is in case you missed it
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1. This is based on last season. The stats I showed are all career. De Gea has been steadily regressing in his performance.
2. Even Harrison is saying that De Gea's claiming, sweeping and passing are sub-par.
Sadly, De Gea is a highlight's keeper right now. For the flashy saves and the awful mistakes (both in saving and in distribution).
The second one is the only one that passes the eyesight test I’d say. Although even then it’s based on a formula that someone, at some level, just estimated. How do you factor in, for example that proportion of a match Utd *would* have spent in possession compared to how much they spend with De Gea in goal. It will be a relevant factor but so so difficult to work out. Also how do they take into account how other players respond to knowing De Gea’s strengths and weaknesses.
He did ok, his saves were good. I think we were helped the two main shots were Antonio and not a competent striker , but taking that out ddg did well for the two saves.
I was baffled in the first half how he got to the edge of the box, let the ball roll in and completely panicked passing it to their player. We got away with it and funnily enough it resulted in a weak shot which will contribute to ddg making a save. But was avoidable.
He did his job and made one save at a really key point (bailing out Martinez who got done by Antonio).
I was baffled in the first half how he got to the edge of the box, let the ball roll in and completely panicked passing it to their player. We got away with it and funnily enough it resulted in a weak shot which will contribute to ddg making a save. But was avoidable.
He did his job and made one save at a really key point (bailing out Martinez who got done by Antonio).
Stats schmats..
How many times have you reposted this same tweet now?
Last week you didn't want to know about stats, refused to acknowledge other data and now JH is some kind of statgod.
No Harrison said he was above PL average in distribution and sweeping in November of this season
It would be interesting to see his up to date stats but I would say his shot stopping stat has improved since November.
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I just posted this as an alternative to the FBREF stats. This aligns more with what I'm seeing. The FBREF psxg suggests De Gea's form was exactly the same over the past 5 seasons. Nobody would agree with that.
This guys stats suggest De Gea's sweeping and distribution have improved since last season. That very much tallies with what I've seen.
If De Gea deniers are allowed parrot then why not the De Gea defenders?
I'm just showing georgipep an alternative to what he has.
I like Harrison's insights quite a lot but even he is showing how average (and below) De Gea is. And, remember, he is the highest paid goalkeeper in the world.
Here is Harrison in December:
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We have high ambitions. I do not understand how can anyone justify having De Gea as our starter.
Give this thing a read: Search for a GK: Summer 2023 Shortlist - thedevilsdna.com
10-15%. Wow, I'd love to see the regression analysis and scenario planning behind that statement
'Above average' is sub par for us though.
Our Par should be top 10 GK in the world. De Gea isn't in the top 10 GK in the world because too much of his game is average or 'above average'.
Is it? Depends on the quality it's being compared with
Class from the club.
I want him to stay and retire as a United player, as good as we are now, but he saved us multiple times in key moments of the game. Yes he is not perfect but I don't see any other keeper in the PL or Europe as a big upgrade on him, and he is been with us for over 10years being an integral part of the team, will be sad see him play somewhere else.
I will but firstly I'll say I'm willing to stick with him because he's an outstanding shot stopper and he's improving on his weaker areas.
I'll be keen to see where De Gea is in that table now. That was after 14 games remember.
I'm with you. He's been good this season and while we can probably improve on him he is FAR from our biggest problem. He's a top 6 keeper and probably better but a lot of these folks have already made their minds up.
I would say he's outstanding at the main part of goalkeeping.
Give us a rough top 10.
He really isn't an outstanding shot stopper.
Also, there is a reason top clubs seek and buy modern keepers and not old school shot stoppers.
Saving us 10 goals last year compared to the average is outstanding.
No need to worry about being sad to see Dave play somewhere else, at least not until he's in mid to late 30s. ETH is no clown and won't be getting rid one of the world's top keepers as he prepares his assault on the PL and CL trophies next season. Someday, yes of course, as all great footballers go into decline. But Dave is 32, far from being in decline, and unless we're going to go after Alisson (which is more than unlikely) there is no significant upgrade on Dave.
As both fbref and Harrison's stats show, he is below average. At his best quality...
I'll blow my stack if we offer him a new contract. His ball distribution is god awful and his shot-stopping is average at best by EPL standards.
He should join the Man Utd rest home that is Roma.
He should join the Man Utd rest home that is Roma.
I seriously don't understand why our fans are soo hard on our players, for example I watch Liverpool as much as I can and many times I see huge mistakes from Alisson and I still hear he is the greatest keeper in the world from fans and I don't think he is much of an upgrade on Degea maybe that he is younger! It's not always greener on the other side.
I agree with you, don't see ETH getting rid of Degea
We haven't got Harrison stats beyond 14 games. Last season he was immense at it. It'll obviously not be as good this year but you'll be hard pressed finding a keeper that saves his team 10 goals in a season.
There may be better Goalkeepers with the ball at their feet in the prem but do they have the mentality and bottle De Gea has, i'm not sure.
Even if he saves 10 goals this season, he is a big reason the chances occur to begin with.
I'd much rather we have a keeper that prevents goals than ones that is occasionally great at Hollywood saves.
We have a passionate fanbase and it's probably best left at that.
If I were building the squad (I don't play FIFAPRO or whatever these videogames are called) from scratch and both Alisson and De Gea were available on equal terms, I'd go for Alisson. He's not the shot stopper that Dave is, but his all-around play is excellent. And although I despise Liverpool, Alisson is the one player who doesn't come off like a douchebag in way or another. And that goal he scored (yes, scored) against West Brom is one of the greatest goals in this history of the game.
But Alisson is not available, nor is Neuer (in decline), nor is Ramsdale (who I'd never want anyway except as a backup to Dave). But the moaning and bitching about Dave not being a modern keeper is beyond ridiculous now.
Why are you missing out the bit from your own preferred statistical method that showed he also cost us 7 goals vs the average goalkeeper, giving him a net worth of +3, not the +10 you keep going on about.
You're focussing on one aspect but ignoring the others. You're also ignoring the part of your preferred statistical method, which in itself is incredibly ironic given it was "stats schmats" until a few days ago, that showed that the other goalkeepers at the top 6 clubs were comfortably ahead of him. To reiterate (and these are your preferred stats):
Alisson +19
Lloris / Ramsdale +7
Mendy +6
Ederson +4
De Gea +3
Allison was comfortably ahead of him. If he was attainable I'd be all for it.Why are you missing out the bit from your own preferred statistical method that showed he also cost us 7 goals vs the average goalkeeper, giving him a net worth of +3, not the +10 you keep going on about.
You're focussing on one aspect but ignoring the others. You're also ignoring the part of your preferred statistical method, which in itself is incredibly ironic given it was "stats schmats" until a few days ago, that showed that the other goalkeepers at the top 6 clubs were comfortably ahead of him. To reiterate (and these are your preferred stats):
Alisson +19
Lloris / Ramsdale +7
Mendy +6
Ederson +4
De Gea +3
Ederson is 1 goal better over a whole season. That's not comfortable and he's won 4 of the last 5 leagues, so I don't think that shows we can't win the league with Dave.
I'm sure Dave is beating Lloris statswise this season. Mendy can't get in at Chelsea so we can agree we don't wanna replace Dave with him.
Then there's Ramsdale. He was 4 goals better last year but that's not enough for me to want to ship out a United legend.
I mean +4 rather than +3 is 33% better so yeah, it is comfortable. Especially considering how much less work he had to do - for example they gave up less than half as many shots on target as we did last season.
I don't overly rate Lloris or Mendy either but them being so far ahead of De Gea - in your own stats - must be concerning for you. Unless you literally are just picking the bits you like and completely ignoring the rest.
Ramsdale walks into our team in fairness. Not wanting to "ship out a United legend" for a player who is a considerably better fit for the team is just weird.
You also seem to be taking it as a suggestion that we sign one of those five goalkeepers to replace De Gea. Clearly not happening; all that metric shows is how much poorer he was that the other top 6 goalkeepers - it doesn't make reference to the rest of the goalkeepers in the league, a considerably number of whom would also have been ahead of him.
On Alison not being a douchebag I'm with you he is the only Liverpool player I don't mind, but I will always choose David over him maybe cause I'm a big fan of his and I really believe he is a top 3 GK in the world (maybe subjective). His biggest flaw is crosses in the box, and it's very hard to improve that drastically when he is 32, hope he stays for a long time.
I agree Alisson has the better all-round game than De Gea, but I swear if he played for us, the caf and the media would be calling for his head for some of the mistakes he's made. It's the nature of being United's #1, amplified by orders of magnitude especially with social media.
Ah come on man
Over the course of 38 games Ederson keeps 1 extra goal out then De Gea and you interpret that as a 33% better performance.
You're either being wilfully ignorant or you're not very good at maths.
Does that mean Alisson performed 433% better than Ederson? And you're blaming Dave for having a bigger workload
Why does that shed him in a negative light?
1 goal over 38 games basically suggests they performed the same.
If De Gea had made some of the blunders Alison had made the past few years his threads would be twice as long.
No one would be saying 'yeah but he hit that sweet ass 40 yard pass'.
No one would be saying 'yeah but he hit that sweet ass 40 yard pass'.
So you're arguing with basic mathematics then?Ah come on man
Over the course of 38 games Ederson keeps 1 extra goal out then De Gea and you interpret that as a 33% better performance.
You're either being wilfully ignorant or you're not very good at maths.
Does that mean Alisson performed 433% better than Ederson? And you're blaming Dave for having a bigger workload
Why does that shed him in a negative light?
1 goal over 38 games basically suggests they performed the same.
It's you who repeatedly says that goalkeeping is all about saving shots, (80% of goalkeeping IIRC). You've then introduced a metric you think proves your point. Your metric shows that Ederson was worth one goal more over the season to his team, despite facing less than half as many shots on target as De Gea.
Your back into "stats schmats" territory if you're looking at the metric, that'll repeat, you have introduced, and coming up with that they "basically performed the same". They are polar opposites, De Gea's general shot stopping on your metric was worth 10 goals but his lack of opportunity prevention and general play cost the team 7 goals. Ederson's general shot stopping on your metric was actually below average by a goal but his opportunity prevention and general play was worth 5 goals. So they're not the same at all, that's a frankly ridiculous insinuation.
The reality in current football is that a better team will maintain possession higher up the pitch and therefore face less attacks and by extension, less shots on target. For example last season we gave up 180 shots on target, which was comfortably the most in De Gea's time at the club (for example, in 17/18 widely accepted to be his best season we gave up 143 & finished 2nd, 19/20 we finished 2nd and gave up 141), this season have given up 92 in 24 games (11 of which were in the first 2 games). The most City have given up in a season under Guardiola is 110, the majority of years they give up less than 100.
So the general point, to confirm, in your metric, is that Ederson was worth more goals to City last season despite facing less than half the number of shots on goal; which is why it's so much more important for Guardiola to have a goalkeeper that specialises in preventing opportunities and distributing the ball over a specialist shot stopper. It's clear from everything we have seen so far that Ten Hag wants a team to play football in the opponents half of the pitch.
Look my basic takeaway from those figures is that you could throw a blanket over the top 6 keepers and it would cover 5 of them.
He has done so and made much worse.
City,Arsenal, Everton a few times, Barca, Brentford, Portugal etc... plenty of examples out there.
This take is quite frankly ridiculous.
Sweeping, claiming crosses and having good distribution are not just modern goalkeeper traits. They are constants that you expect from all top keepers
Top keepers now, need to be able to do all of these aspects and be comfortable receiving the ball back to rotate play. This is really the one really big change we've seen with keepers in the last few years.
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