He'll have one in each pocket. Clean sheet and probably a goal.Can't wait to see him against Zlatan and Rashford.
He'll have one in each pocket. Clean sheet and probably a goal.Can't wait to see him against Zlatan and Rashford.
Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"If you want to play that game West Brom turned down a major bid from Arsenal and has three PL titles. Plus Luiz is pretty rash himself another weakness of his.
Ferguson has said a lot of crazy shit out over the years. You only have to look at "Phil Duncan Edwards Jones".The number of defensive mistakes and the number of times you win the ball means eff all? Seriously? Luiz season on season has had far too many defensive mistakes, which resulted in his team conceding. How about the fact he was the heart of Brazil's defense for their 7-1 thrashing? The reason Luiz is highly rated is more due to his physical presence and him been a great ball playing defender than his defending ability.
As for Evans, how about Fergie's opinion that he was the future of United's defense? I suggest looking at West Brom's forum, they consider him their best ever defender. That isn't stats, that's opinions of 1 of the best managers and fans who watch a player weekly.
Every team uses stats btw because they mean very much and not 'feck all'.
Maybe now, but pre-Conte he really wasn't all that. People even thought he'd get benched with Barzagli and Chiellini in the same team.Bonucci (the closest player there is to our Rio)
As much as I detest Ramos, he is a big game player.I think it's strange that a CB like Ramos who can look utterly dreadful defensively when Real Madrid face top opposition, accumulates yellow cards like no ones business, red cards frequently, and has howlers as well is unanimously considered world class and one of the 2-3 best CB's in the world, yet David Luiz is a pretty damn similar player and is called shit by almost all English football fans.
David Luiz was also a big game player when he was here the first time.As much as I detest Ramos, he is a big game player.
AbsolutelyIt's a funny case with him because he used to be very overrated at the beginning of his Chelsea career because he was scoring goals (which is not important for a defender) but then all of a sudden became very underrated. He's a decent defender, nothing special but will be good for Chelsea.
Ramos is not dreadful, he is one of the best example of big game player. Sure he loses it sometimes and gets sill booking but he is excellent defender.I think it's strange that a CB like Ramos who can look utterly dreadful defensively when Real Madrid face top opposition, accumulates yellow cards like no ones business, red cards frequently, and has howlers as well is unanimously considered world class and one of the 2-3 best CB's in the world, yet David Luiz is a pretty damn similar player and is called shit by almost all English football fans.
Bonucci joined Juventus at age 23. Conte reverted his system from his usual 4-4-2 system to a 3-5-2 system just to make sure that his defense is 100% rock solid and he kept insisting on that defence till he signed with Chelsea.Maybe now, but pre-Conte he really wasn't all that. People even thought he'd get benched with Barzagli and Chiellini in the same team.
While Luiz might not be a 'Conte player', I I won't write him off yet. Conte knows how to get the most out of his players.
That's not true. He was key for a couple of seasons. Especially as Ferdinand and vidic were fading he became the key defender that partnered them as they rarely played together by end due to injuries.Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"
....
I'm gonna take a stab at it and say that you also rate him over Luiz too?
He was part of that CB partnership that went a dozen matches without conceding in 2008-2009 and was our best CB in 12-13, so he was at least a major part of 2 EPL titles.Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"
I think the board realized their mistake last summer of signing players that the manager didn't want (or had never even heard of, staggeringly). They've gone and got rid of all those mistakes. Baba, Djilobodji, Pato, Falcao, Hector, Miazga.Bonucci joined Juventus at age 23. Conte reverted his system from his usual 4-4-2 system to a 3-5-2 system just to make sure that his defense is 100% rock solid and he kept insisting on that defence till he signed with Chelsea.
I've been following Conte since he was a player. He wasn't the most technically gifted player around but even then he was a perfectionist, who relied alot on his football brain and he was pretty tactical. He's the last of the old fashioned type of Italian managers ie he's a born disciplinarian, whose absolutely top notch in terms of tactics and whose obsessed about having everyone showing him respect. The defence is the very foundation of his success and he won't dilly dally around that.
No one can say for certain whether Luiz is Conte's signing or not. We're not in Chelsea's board so we cant be certain about anything. What I can say is Luiz is not Conte's type of signing. He expects his defenders to be able to defend. That's crucial for his system. FFS he played in an era were the defenders around him were Maldini, Cannavaro, Ferrara, Nesta, Montero, Iuliano etc. He's not used to these 'ball playing' defenders who cant defend even if their own life depended on it.
Also if Roman wants to dick around the manager and bring players he doesn't want then he chose the wrong type (and actually the worst) of manager to do so. Conte wont compromise and is quick to show the middle finger to a club if things aren't done according to his way. If he can do that with Juventus (he's their version of Gary Neville or John Terry) and Italy (the national team is taken seriously in Italy) then he will do it with anybody.
Chelsea seem to do the same mistake again and again. They did it with Mourinho which forced his departure from Chelsea to Inter and again last season which contributed to his sack.I think the board realized their mistake last summer of signing players that the manager didn't want (or had never even heard of, staggeringly). They've gone and got rid of all those mistakes. Baba, Djilobodji, Pato, Falcao, Hector, Miazga.
David Luiz obviously wasn't Conte's first or even second choice but it's being widely reported that he signed off on it and gave his blessing.
Weird claim to make. Chiellini and Barzagli were class, maybe just a touch below WC, during that time. Juve were set on defense.Bonucci joined Juventus at age 23. Conte reverted his system from his usual 4-4-2 system to a 3-5-2 system just to make sure that his defense is 100% rock solid and he kept insisting on that defence till he signed with Chelsea.
Okay, which one do I believe now?No one can say for certain whether Luiz is Conte's signing or not. We're not in Chelsea's board so we cant be certain about anything. What I can say is Luiz is not Conte's type of signing.
A- Bonucci was not an average defender at the time. He wasn't as good as he's now (he was still a young player) but he wasn't average. To sign him up Juventus had to involve itself in a very complicated deal with two others clubs and which also involved money + players (one of which was homegrown talent Criscito).Weird claim to make. Chiellini and Barzagli were class, maybe just a touch below WC, during that time. Juve were set on defense.
Their problems had more to do with generating chances, which is why Conte made the change to 352 so he can accommodate the skilled ball player but (at the time) average defender in Bonucci. I cannot stress enough that Conte played a big part in developing Bonucci's defensive skills, he wasn't half the defender that he is today when he first came in during Bonucci's second year.
Okay, which one do I believe now?
Again, all I'm saying is, yes Luiz might not be that old school Italian type defender that Conte prefers but as shown in Bonucci's case, he does allow for some exceptions from time to time as long as he sees that it addresses an important need for the team. Needless to say, Luiz will have to double his efforts on the defending side of things, but I'm sure he'll be given a chance.
I think you're confusing Conte's 'my way or the highway' mentality with tactical inflexibility. Conte won the league with Vucinic FFS.
That's major revisionism. Evans was brilliant for at least 2 of those seasons. I remember I voted him as United's Player of the Year for one of them. Anderson certainly never produced anywhere near as consistently as Evans did for us despite also having brief runs of great form, the best of which bizarrely came when played alongside Cleverley. Evans has been fantastic since joining West Brom and I'm happy for him. Every manager makes mistakes but Ferguson was right more times than he was wrong, moreso than most other managers. The point could also be made that these players that seemed to fail like Jones for example may have actually performed better had SAF remained at the club for longer. Not all managers can get the same results from players. I think people often underestimate this. You need only consider Zlatan's relationship with Mourinho as opposed to that with Guardiola as well as his performances at Inter and Barcelona as evidence of that.Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"
He's a "decent" PL defender for a team that finishes 8th-15th. I'd put him in the same bracket as the likes of Ashley Williams, Ryan Shawcross etc.That's not true. He was key for a couple of seasons. Especially as Ferdinand and vidic were fading he became the key defender that partnered them as they rarely played together by end due to injuries.
One season especially he made a real breakthrough but injuries and sir Alex leaving had an impact on his form and confidence.
He had a shocker the season before he was sold but really glad he found form again last season. He was excellent and barely put foot wrong last season. Another season like that and he'll definitely get picked up by top team.
A lot of that was to do with Van Der Sar. And best CB in 12/13 is highly debatable. Rio had an excellent season that year and even managed to get himself into the Team of the Season.He was part of that CB partnership that went a dozen matches without conceding in 2008-2009 and was our best CB in 12-13, so he was at least a major part of 2 EPL titles.
I actually think he's a good CB with a few weaknesses, but he's looked bad today.Is it fair to say Chelsea's defence has been a bit all over the place since he started playing for them?
The Liverpool game was odd. He played very well, individually, but their defence was a total shambles. Which seems to be a feature of his game.I actually think he's a good CB with a few weaknesses, but he's looked bad today.
Yeah I can't disagree with that, I don't think Cahills really a leader and I wouldn't want Luiz organising the defence.The Liverpool game was odd. He played very well, individually, but their defence was a total shambles. Which seems to be a feature of his game.
what a pass by him just now
What a mistake by him just now.
He's had a few this game, I'm surprised Conte hasn't gone with a 3 (is ivanovic fit) It'd give Luiz chances to do his Bonucco-esque passing while helping with his defensive flawswhat a pass by him just now
Fixed that for you.Is it fair to say Chelsea's defence has been a bit all over the place since the start of last season?
But when he was actually played there and didn't get as much time and space as he does in defence it turns out he's not particularly good at that either.
David Luiz should just play as a Defensive midfielder and everyone would accept he's World Class.