Declan Rice

izak

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You'd think the Schneiderlin purchase would have taught us something.

We don't need a water carrier with limited ability on the ball. We need someone that can play football and make good use of the ball first as well as defend. Frankie De Jong moved for £75m to Barca, if we pay anywhere near the same for Rice we need shooting. He ain't fit to lace De Jong's boots. Every pass is sideways or backwards.
This exactly this, We seem to go after players withd muscle and less brains most of the time, Rice is Okay at best but if we want to progress we need someone who can pin a pass accurately from DM position to our central foward either to feet or into space, someone who is capable of making those quick short passes forming triangles to out smart opposition press before pining it with precision either out wide or over the top for a runner to latch unto frequently like scholes use to be for us, if the news about Varane is to be believe I'll rather we go after technical players than a muscle man we already have plenty of those in Mcfred.
 

cyberman

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I prefer to have a player who can cover if Maguire is going to run into the box (which he does very well from time to time).

Im sure you know it’s not just about getting an extra man in midfield. It’s about taking the opportunity to run into space when it’s there, drawing oppo players out of position, upsetting their shape. You can’t blithely do that without proper cover in the space you leave behind.
But then Scott can do that already as he literally plays there for Scotland and he doesnt drop back for Maguire? Its inventing something we dont do just to vindicate a susoect signing
 

Tallis

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Never thought he was the answer and haven’t seen anything that suggests he is.

I also think we should dispel this notion of a DM that will allow us to play a 3 of Bruno, Pogba and the DM. I don’t think there is a DM that can do the work by himself to allow Bruno and Pog to play the way they want to. The only way I can see that happen is if we play with inverted fullbacks which I don’t think we will. Besides,Pogba will be gone by next summer so planning with him in mind is futile.

We should rethink a MF from groundup. What’s the qualities we need from the two players that will be in our MF - how do we want to play. If we can buy one of those players this summer, then great. We manage until wecan find the partner next summer. The quick fix approach doesn’t really translate to success unless we have an oil tycoon or state backing.
 

jesperjaap

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Surely there's plenty of really good DM's out there for a fraction of the price. Just seems like way too much money for him.
There are a plethora of them, that is why we shouldnt try to sign him this summer. Sayign we shouldnt sign him as he was poor in an England shirt isnt a justified reason fro me personally.

I rate him highly, I think his positioning and reading of the game is very good and though not a big range of passing his vision and weight of pass ovr 10 yards is actually good (none of this evident last night). He seems to have a good character too. There is the argument he is similar to what we already have, I think he is better.

So as a player, personally I think there are many reasons to sign him and he actually would fit in very well to our side......but £80m+ potentially is ludicrous when there are a good 10-20 quality midfielders we could target this summer from 1/3 of that price upwards. The only midfielder I think would cost us more potentially as a feasible target would be Barella.
 

OrcaFat

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But then Scott can do that already as he literally plays there for Scotland and he doesnt drop back for Maguire? Its inventing something we dont do just to vindicate a susoect signing
McT could play that role but him and Fred are all over the place positionally. The main argument for signing Rice is that he will do what is required exactly when it is needed in the no.6 position. He will read the game and will just do the right thing without instructions. He will lead the midfield in a simple but effective way. Which is what we need.

In the end it comes down to whether you rate Rice and what he does or not. I do. I’m not saying there’s nobody better but I’m not at all convinced by the alternatives.
 

bsCallout

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McT could play that role but him and Fred are all over the place positionally. The main argument for signing Rice is that he will do what is required exactly when it is needed in the no.6 position. He will read the game and will just do the right thing without instructions. He will lead the midfield in a simple but effective way. Which is what we need.

In the end it comes down to whether you rate Rice and what he does or not. I do. I’m not saying there’s nobody better but I’m not at all convinced by the alternatives.
I'd rather bring Garner back than spend that money on Rice. The thing our midfield is crying out for is someone who is defensively minded but has fantastic passing range.
 

Stacks

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Top DMs are rare and hard to find - Rice is not one of them. Just because he can play there doesn't mean he's worth £70m.

Here's a tip - go to Brazil and look for one. Casemiro, Fernandinho, Fabinho, all the good ones lately have come from there - probably because the defensive midfielders can also pass the ball well
Fred has entered the chat
He doesn’t look special.

But I think he would improve us a lot. Rice plus either Fred or McT would be a lot better than Fred and McT together.

Our main problem last season was conceding goals when we really shouldn’t have due to lack of shape, composure and leadership in midfield.

We need a player who does the job Rice does. We will concede fewer goals and will not go to pieces so much in the end of games. He would be worth 10-15 extra points through marginal gains - a few draws become wins, a few defeats become draws. If we get Rice and nobody else, we take the title race to the wire.

Yesterday, he started to stand out towards the end, when England were realising they weren’t going to win; he has the personality to drive the team. His skill set is pretty humdrum to the casual eye but he is what we are missing.
How and why? We conceded most of our goals from set pieces (14 I think) so if he isn't a commanded aerial presence then I don't see how he prevents us conceding. its always funny when people claim how many extra pts players will give us :lol:.
I reckon if we sign Rice alone we would win the world cup
 

El Jefe

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If he had that kind of performance in a home match vs Crystal Palace, his thread would be as active as any Mctominay or Fred performance thread after a bad result. That was as cowardly a performance you could find from a midfielder on the ball.

Its honestly an insult to Keane that people keep making a comparison between them. SAF never had any interest in players as limited on the ball as he is.
 

OrcaFat

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I'd rather bring Garner back than spend that money on Rice. The thing our midfield is crying out for is someone who is defensively minded but has fantastic passing range.
I’d love to have a proper look at Garner, yeah.
 

OrcaFat

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Fred has entered the chat

How and why? We conceded most of our goals from set pieces (14 I think) so if he isn't a commanded aerial presence then I don't see how he prevents us conceding. its always funny when people claim how many extra pts players will give us :lol:.
I reckon if we sign Rice alone we would win the world cup
The goals we conceded were mainly from a root cause of being poor in midfield, not dealing with pressure and losing our shape. When we lose control we concede ground, concede free kicks and corners and start to panic. Rice solves those problems to a meaningful degree.
 

Stacks

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The goals we conceded were mainly from a root cause of being poor in midfield, not dealing with pressure and losing our shape. When we lose control we concede ground, concede free kicks and corners and start to panic. Rice solves those problems to a meaningful degree.
I mean we play 2 holding midfielders currently. Are both of them often found in the opposition box and no one in midfield? Rice helps us control games then? We lose control often because our players are not all comfortable on the ball controlling the game.
 

OrcaFat

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I mean we play 2 holding midfielders currently. Are both of them often found in the opposition box and no one in midfield? Rice helps us control games then? We lose control often because our players are not all comfortable on the ball controlling the game.
If you think McFred is controlling that midfield at the key moments, you are watching a different team to me. Rice will control the space and will get the ball and give it simple to one of ours and he will do it better than anyone we’ve got.
 

Stacks

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I knew Gary had said something before but couldn't remember what. This was 2 years ago.

Thoughts ladies and lads? Do you see much change? He is 2 years older so I am sure he will have improved from then.
 

OrcaFat

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
 

bucky

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
 

Andersons Dietician

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
1.Yes
2.No
3.Yes, most definitely yes.
 

sullydnl

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I knew Gary had said something before but couldn't remember what. This was 2 years ago.

Thoughts ladies and lads? Do you see much change? He is 2 years older so I am sure he will have improved from then
Yes he has improved a lot over the last couple of years, as has been broadly noted I think even by pundits who were previously critical of him.

It's also improvement you can track statistically. Aside from getting better at the defensive side of things, he has improved in other aspects of the game too. For example, he has openly spoken about improving how much he drives forward with the ball and that's something you can see getting better year on year statistically, so he now carries the ball forward twice as much as he used to a couple of years ago.



Crucially it's also what he isn't able to do in this England side when Southgate sets them up like he did against Croatia.

Statistically he's also improved in terms of passes completed, pass accuracy, chances created, take-ons, fouls won, passes in the opposition half, forward passes, etc.

Though as you say, you would expect improvement. Over the last few years he has played a lot. Between October 2018 and April of this year he played more minutes than any other outfield player in the PL. And in that time he has become nailed on as a midfielder for both West Ham and England, also captaining West Ham. And at 22 you'd expect him to keep improving.

None of which means we should sign him or that he's worth a ludicrous fee. But he is getting better year on year.
 

SirScholes

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
Yes
No
Yes
Same as the other 2 replies
 

sullydnl

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
1. Yes.
2. Not sure.
3. I'd be amazed if there weren't, somewhere. Quite a few most probably.
 

Sandikan

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
You don't know if there's any player equal, or better in the world than Rice, for 60-70m!?!

:lol:
 
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1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?
1. Current United yes, just look at players who get games there. Importantly though, is he good enough for a title and CL chasing side? No.

2. Feck no. In 90% of out games we barely need a DM, we need someone who can dictate from deep and is defensively sound.

3. For 80m, of course there is.
 

Stacks

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Yes he has improved a lot over the last couple of years, as has been broadly noted I think even by pundits who were previously critical of him.

It's also improvement you can track statistically. Aside from getting better at the defensive side of things, he has improved in other aspects of the game too. For example, he has openly spoken about improving how much he drives forward with the ball and that's something you can see getting better year on year statistically, so he now carries the ball forward twice as much as he used to a couple of years ago.



Crucially it's also what he isn't able to do in this England side when Southgate sets them up like he did against Croatia.

Statistically he's also improved in terms of passes completed, pass accuracy, chances created, take-ons, fouls won, passes in the opposition half, forward passes, etc.

Though as you say, you would expect improvement. Over the last few years he has played a lot. Between October 2018 and April of this year he played more minutes than any other outfield player in the PL. And in that time he has become nailed on as a midfielder for both West Ham and England, also captaining West Ham. And at 22 you'd expect him to keep improving.

None of which means we should sign him or that he's worth a ludicrous fee. But he is getting better year on year.
Yeah I thought he would have. Its good to see that he is. I wouldn't judge him on chance creation as a holding midfielder as that's a bit harsh.
 

Adam-Utd

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Rice isn't better than Mctominay or Fred. He might be better in certain individual areas, but never as an overall package.

So we are going to pay 70m for another player that won't actually improve us, purely for depth? not a chance IMO.

If he was available for 40m i'd say ok great add him for depth and rotate, but i'd much rather go elsewhere for that sort of money. He and Philips looked completely lost against a fairly half decent scottish midfield.
 

Stacks

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Rice isn't better than Mctominay or Fred. He might be better in certain individual areas, but never as an overall package.

So we are going to pay 70m for another player that won't actually improve us, purely for depth? not a chance IMO.

If he was available for 40m i'd say ok great add him for depth and rotate, but i'd much rather go elsewhere for that sort of money. He and Philips looked completely lost against a fairly half decent scottish midfield.
He is a better DMC than both because he holds his position. The other two are CM who shine more in defensive duties
 

Gazza

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There’s three main arguments going on here.

1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?

2. Is Rice the type of player we need?

3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?

As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.

To the above, I would say:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.

yes
no
yes
 

Adam-Utd

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He is a better DMC than both because he holds his position. The other two are CM who shine more in defensive duties
Yes in that position but we don't play that way.

If we did I still certainly wouldn't spend 70m on him - there's plenty of young specialists in that role for half the price.
 

InspiRED

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Said it before and I'll say it again, would take Mctoms over Rice all day long. £80m is a joke, he is a good interceptor but bang average with the ball.