Personally I feel we need both,however if we can only sign one this summer which is it
Deep Lying Playmaker or Mobile no 8
- Thread starter croadyman
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
What do you mean by a mobile no 8?
Someone like Caicedo who could partner Casa in the big games,whereas playmaker is people like De Jong (obviously not him)
We need both. We need midfielders who are going to elevate our play in the build up phase.
It's absolutely vital to sign midfielders who are deep lying playmakers or deep lying pressure evaders or a deep roaming playmaker.
The solution is required in the deeper area of midfield.
Deep lying playmaker for sure. The issue of playmaking far outweighs mobility. To put it simply Eriksen and Bruno perform the role of a mobile 8 better than Casemeiro does that of a deep playmaker. You cannot simply have him in the deeper role and expect to control games - his passing isn’t good enough.
Feel free to put forward targets too
Rabiot and deep lying playmaker.
But which deep lying playmaker available in the market? Has anyone watch Kokcu? Is he ready?
But which deep lying playmaker available in the market? Has anyone watch Kokcu? Is he ready?
I think mobile no.8 is ball carrier type box-to-box, ala kovacic, Modric, or FDJ.
Highest ball carrier stats in Europe is obviously FDJ, (which is the cream of the crop, if we can get him, it would be perfect) and then Rice isn't that very far behind.
I'd go all in for Rice if we have new owners. Casemiro can play double role of DLP and anchorman as he shown against Brentford. Rice can be the dynamic ball carrier plus he has better defensive qualities than FDJ.
Tactically DLP is rarity nowadays, I'd rather we go for modern all action ball carrier no.8.
Highest ball carrier stats in Europe is obviously FDJ, (which is the cream of the crop, if we can get him, it would be perfect) and then Rice isn't that very far behind.
I'd go all in for Rice if we have new owners. Casemiro can play double role of DLP and anchorman as he shown against Brentford. Rice can be the dynamic ball carrier plus he has better defensive qualities than FDJ.
Tactically DLP is rarity nowadays, I'd rather we go for modern all action ball carrier no.8.
World's best team seem to have one .
It’s definitely a niche position. Ideally you want all your CMs to be capable of taking the ball from the back, breaking the oppositions high press and starting attacks, clearly not everyone is capable of it but it doesn’t necessarily have to be exclusive to a DLP. Kovacic for example is a perfect example of someone capable of it and he is just a regular 6.
Oh I agree it's quite a niche position and as long as your teams midfielders are competent enough to evade press and don't completely shit bed in deeper positions there are different combinations which can work just fine .
I would agree, as that would allow Case to play as more of the 8 in the build up phase, which would nullify his composure problems and ideally give him more time and space.
Agreed.
We need two midfielders that can control the game and have great passing range. Guys similar to Carrick or Scholes. Without that, we are not going to get any better. Doesn't matter how many strikers or defenders we sign. We've had big name strikers before and we were still mediocre. The number one reason we are where we are is because we cannot control games to save our lives. We lose every midfield battle.
A deep playmaker who is press resistant and can move with the ball. We have no dribblers in midfield
Well caught the highlights of Juve v Sevilla and Rabiot can definitely move with the ball,however don't know what his playmaker abilities are like
It would be good if someone can find that Twitter list someone made on midfielders. I’m sure De Jong was number one of best all round attributes with Kovacic and Rice having a similar statistical shape.
So either of those two. But I don’t like Kovacic and we aren’t getting Rice
So either of those two. But I don’t like Kovacic and we aren’t getting Rice
Who knows what will happen this summer especially where Barcelona are concerned. They must make £200mi of sales this summer and even then can only reuse 40% of that amount for new signings. They are in a awful position finanically and xavi is talking about a new pivot player to replace a saudi arabia bound busqutes.
They also want to bring messi back. Balde, Araujo, Gavi and Pedri are untouchable. Which makes me think they will sacrifice frenkie this summer.
Remains to be seen. Rabiot is a talented player who can play 6 and 8. On a free? Yeh definately. Personally id take kovacevic if chelsea were selling him cheaply.
They also want to bring messi back. Balde, Araujo, Gavi and Pedri are untouchable. Which makes me think they will sacrifice frenkie this summer.
Remains to be seen. Rabiot is a talented player who can play 6 and 8. On a free? Yeh definately. Personally id take kovacevic if chelsea were selling him cheaply.
It would be good if someone can find that Twitter list someone made on midfielders. I’m sure De Jong was number one of best all round attributes with Kovacic and Rice having a similar statistical shape.
So either of those two. But I don’t like Kovacic and we aren’t getting Rice
He probably was but that boat sailed last summer
There was a TIFO IR L episode on youtube where they used a stats based pizza chart to show the strengths of erikson and casemiro. Then they overlayed frenkie stats on the combined pizza chart and you had the perfect midfield in terms of all of the strengths required by your midfield trio combined.It would be good if someone can find that Twitter list someone made on midfielders. I’m sure De Jong was number one of best all round attributes with Kovacic and Rice having a similar statistical shape.
So either of those two. But I don’t like Kovacic and we aren’t getting Rice
We arent going to get rice, just too expensive.
Think we could but see him joining Arsenal
Bruno is an all-action midfielder, and Casemiro has surprisingly proven to be somewhat the same, coming forward and being a threat in the area. That means we don't need another dynamic runner badly. We need someone who can dictate the play and string passing moves together. Our football is pretty chaotic at times and the midfielder we should target should be someone who can make it more structured.
Arsenal would make sense for him. Doesnt have to move house, still stay in london and has a better chance currently of winning the league with them than us (at present).
Rice is a fantastic player, shame he wont be at utd.
Casemiro becomes like that, most probably because our forwards are impotent and he was instructed by EtH. He wasn't like this in his whole successful Madrid career.
Frenkie ain't gonna be cheaper than Rice ffs.
I know, but he is clearly capable.
If we were competent in moving players on we could have both as there’s players like Le Fee out there that could be gradually built up to be that playmaker and only has a year left on his contract so probably available for £15-£20 million which could be offset by moving VDB on.
There’s players like Rice and Caicedo out there that are pretty certain to be available this summer and we could offset a good chunk of their fees by moving McTominay and Fred both on.
Of course I’m only being hypothetical but if we brought in Le Fee and one of Rice or Caicedo and moved on McTominay, Fred and VDB you’re fixing pretty much all problems in midfield with Casemiro and Eriksen already there then Rabiot on a free who can play pretty much both roles.
Our other problem is though that we have a revolving door of managers over the past decade who all played differently so the players don’t fit the new manager coming in each time, it’s clear what ETH wants to do but is hamstrung by deadwood that we can’t seem to shift in order to facilitate it.
There’s players like Rice and Caicedo out there that are pretty certain to be available this summer and we could offset a good chunk of their fees by moving McTominay and Fred both on.
Of course I’m only being hypothetical but if we brought in Le Fee and one of Rice or Caicedo and moved on McTominay, Fred and VDB you’re fixing pretty much all problems in midfield with Casemiro and Eriksen already there then Rabiot on a free who can play pretty much both roles.
Our other problem is though that we have a revolving door of managers over the past decade who all played differently so the players don’t fit the new manager coming in each time, it’s clear what ETH wants to do but is hamstrung by deadwood that we can’t seem to shift in order to facilitate it.
Obviously. It's just our midfield structure become less "structure" if he does it so often in game. Especially when he's the sole DM and partnering Eriksen.
Agreed, that’s why I suggested we should target a more stationary playmaker a la Neves rather than a dynamic midfielder a la Caicedo.
Just a central midfielder whose main game is to retain the ball, pass the ball well in the first and middle third of the pitch, and is pretty good under the press. Mobility and ball carrying is a strong plus too.
Don’t think I’m asking for much there
Don’t think I’m asking for much there
I don't think it should be a factor. I kinda like a roaming playmaker ala Modric (or Kroos, Gundogan) who can cover bigger area of the pitch. Although a deep lying playmaker (ala old Scholes) is good also.
Yeah. Neves would be a solid option.
Whatever Caicedo is.
We need someone who can dictate play, who runs the game with his short passing.
How deep he is or how much he moves box to box is not important.
How deep he is or how much he moves box to box is not important.
He was like that at Santos though, it might be that he was only keen on shackling himself for players like Kroos and Modric and he wanted to be more expressive in the last phase of his career.
Last edited:
Yeah. Probably so. He went forward often with Brazil in last WC also. And probably cost Brazil in that game against Croatia (I think).
It just seems like him decided to do playmaking and then all action CM is kinda out of character, when he rarely did that in 9 seasons with Madrid.
He actually started doing it a lot in his last season at madrid. Kroos and Modric would sit at times and Casemiro would be the one bombing forward.
I think this is why he wanted to come to us, he wanted to be at a team where he could be much more involved and he saw a big hole in our team that he wanted to fill, funny how he was never linked to any other club.
thats incorrect Fred bombing forward to croatia touch line chasing a 50/50 ball he lost, cost them. Casemiro then had to step forward to kill the counter and once it was by him it was game over. But i would blame Fred on that one as he was brought on to close up shop and be defensively disruptive and not chase another goal.
He probably will be. Frenkie de Jong earns nearly twice as much as the next on the salary list in Barcelona and selling him could be massive for Barcelona in terms of regaining a bit of financial control. They're not going to demand £100m as long as he has that salary (€721,154)
Its crazy that we had both at starters,now we can't find just the one 1.
Both dont really matter if they can be pressed easily. Its been the main issue with our midfield outside of Casemiro. However if both are good at that and we come into specifics, a DLP will be better because we have plenty of runners already in Fred and Bruno.